Advice to a Prospective CL Owner
I've been giving a lot of thought to what I might say to someone thinking now about starting a CL from scratch.
It is definitely a labour of love and there are more profitable ways to use our land, but purely from a financial point of view, a landowner has to consider 'return on investment'.
CLs were created under a 1960 Act of Parliament to make it easier for land-owners to use spare pieces of land without going through a lengthy and costly Planning Permission process, provided that they were limited to just 5 caravans or motorhomes.
Times have moved-on and the expectations of guests have increased: electric hook-ups have become the norm, Wi-Fi is in demand, motorhomes need hard-standings, we get asked for toilets & showers, and electric vehicle charging will be the next hurdle.
The 'Catch 22' for new CL Owners is that motorhomes are on the increase compared to caravans, and require level hard-standings – not only are they more costly to install, hard-standings almost certainly require planning permission.
If landowners need planning permission to install hard-standings (and/or toilets / showers); they might as well skip the 5-van concept and apply to have a larger commercial site right from the start. If they have enough land and time; the economy of scale would make that more financially viable.
I cannot see the 5-van limit changing as it is part of a lengthy piece of law that affects commercial touring sites, static caravan sites and rallies. The caravan industry has a whole has too much to lose by starting to unravel this law.
If you value CLs: please use them, be grateful for they provide and do not make too many demands on land-owners to add extra facilities that require planning permission. The 5-van limit was put there as a concession to make things easier for land-owners, not more difficult.
Ian Kelly
01691 622951
Holiday@BirchHill.co.uk
Birch Hill, The Cross, Ellesmere, Shropshire, SY12 0LP
www.BirchHill.co.uk
Comments
-
I think there will always be a market for all types of CLs.
Personally, I don’t make any demands of CL owners as they can provide what suits them. I will, though, search out a CL that provides for my needs which are EHU and, in anything other than likely good weather, a HS. I leave the other CLs to those they suit but don’t demand that they change to suit me.
4 -
Is a HS essential for MH? Would not reinforced grass serve equally well and avoid planning issues?
2 -
We tried grass reinforcement, but the matting simply follows the dips and hollows of the surface on which it is laid (and can be pushed further into the ground by heavy vehicles).
Motorhomes like to be level, so we ended-up lifting the reinforcement matting, putting-in a proper foundation and re-laying the matting on a firm, level base.
The other problem with grass reinforcement is that grass is a living, growing substance which gradually covers the matting. The newly-grown grass and the soil pushed-up by worms has to be scraped off, back down to the matting surface so that vehicles can get traction on the matting.
Oher types of hardstanding might not be so pretty, but are probably cheaper and easier to maintain.1 -
Ian, you give an honest appraisal, but for prospective CL owners there is also the question of location to be considered.
Motorhome owners with panel van sized vehicles often say they can and do drive almost anywhere. But owners with bigger vehicles often say they don't want to take their Motorhome off site.
Setting up a new CL at a location without public transport, without a pub or shop within walking range, without off road cycle tracks, and without any obvious attraction nearby might not be a very good idea.
4 -
I would advise any potential CL owner to fully understand regulations, H&S and public liability implications for site operators before embarking on the process of setting up the site.
These include, hygiene in facility blocks, provision of hook ups, electrical testing and electricity supply charging, water testing of all outlets for public use, waste and foul water disposal regs - to mention but a few.
3 -
Perhaps prospective CL owners would be better advised to set-up the most basic of sites with just water and disposal facilities to see how they get on. If this precludes heavy motorhomes, then so be it.
They can then judge whether they consider it worthwhile to expand on these provisions later.
5 -
Two years ago, a new CL (ManorAvon) opened a couple of miles from us without electric hook-ups. They only charged £6 per night and we referred bookings to them when we were full.
They closed after a year, having had no bookings. Over the same period, we charged £12 and had our busiest-ever year for bookings.
Despite what 'off-gridders' might say, this tells me that electric hook-ups are important for a CL to survive.5 -
I agree, Ian. As long as LVs are manufactured with all mod cons, the simplicity of hooking up to use them is going to appeal to the vast majority.
Those of us who started our vanning life in LVs with no facilities other than a gas hob and gas lights surely appreciate the luxury of running water, heaters, fridges et al.
There will always be a few happy to go back to basics but that’s not for me or many others, especially when being 'basic' incurs a large financial outlay to achieve that basicness.
0 -
I think electric hooks are probably a good idea, particularly if the owners want to do all year let’s. I know there are a good few outfit owners who get by nicely without hook ups, but it does require a bit more investment on your outfit.
Location is everything really to us. That’s our prime consideration in Summer, we want a nice place to stay, interesting places to visit, and above all a relaxed atmosphere. Our all time favourite CL is all grass, has only 10amps, but offers individually landscaped very big pitches. It has one tap, one waste point, and three recycling bins. You are left to pitch up, get comfy and call into farmhouse at your convenience. It’s tucked away down a farm lane, so very quiet. Booked solid in Summer, we always booked a year in advance, and with a mix of all sizes of vans and MHs. Open all year, we have done every month except January. Most users tended to be adults and doing long stays, often only going off site every 28 days as per rules. Farmer towed some vans down to a Club Site for some to have a couple of nights there. Brilliant for those wanting a long stay, but picked up lots of “passing trade” as well if a pitch became free. We made lots of holiday friends there, folks who we saw each year. A lot of Cornish folks used it as well. It’s location for seeing the best of South Western Cornwall is second to none. Farmer did all the work except checking electrics himself. Most CL owners can only dream of this kind of turnover. Always priced less than no facility Club Site nearby.
0 -
I’ll add it has no pictures on website, no email contact, no fancy booking system and only a brief description, and most folks will just dismiss it without another thought.
2 -
I actually don’t disagree it would seem that Ehu is a prerequisite these days. But it must add considerably to your costs. Both in terms of electricity consumed and infrastructure cost of installation and maintainence. It seems to me the people are demanding clubsite facilties on CLs at bargain basement prices. Logic says that for equivalent facilities a CL should charge more than a clubsite simply because it doesn’t have the same economies of scale.
Birch hill btw is an excellent CL and very easy stroll into Ellesmere. It is rightly very popular.
4 -
There are different models. Some CLs stand alongside a small commercial site, and CL users benefit from the extra facilities put in. We stopped on a CL that had put in 10 seasonal pitches couple of years ago. CL visitors could choose to use the superb wetrooms, which were provided for a small fee (coin boxes gave hot water). Obviously the owners had gone for further planning permission for the seasonal pitches. Another was a small private site that had 20 pitches separate from CL area, and did storage, with owners towing vans on and off for visitors. Both the CL area, and the private area had shower and loos. Again you paid a small fee for shower if you wanted to use it. This was all grass, good sandy foundations. And again adults only, mainly because it had a deep fishing lake. Both these examples were thriving, in prime visitor territory. Then there are the CLs with alternative holiday accommodation alongside, such as B&B or cottages. Even the Club has invested in this approach at some Club Sites. All depends if the Planning Application is approved. The examples I give all provide CL pitches at a good rate £11-14 range, with a little bit more if folks want to pay for a shower. But that’s optional.
CL network needs to be as diverse as possible.
3 -
May I come back to what I said earlier about location.
One of my sons owns (with finance from shareholders) about 7 or 8 independent, good quality bar/restaurants. With similar investment, similar design, similar quality menus, similar management and similar standards, some have made him very rich, and some have been an absolute financial flop. And it's all been to do with location, location, location.
Prospective CL owners and site owners can perhaps learn from that.
2 -
A CL that supplies restaurant food, excellent idea👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😎
0 -
I'm one of those people that uses CLs a lot but I wouldn't dream in this day and age of going to a site where there wasn't electricity. Things (and me) have moved on and although our van is now 10 years old I love the ease of simply arriving and plugging in and I get hot water, cold food out of the fridge, heat and if it's raining the TV! .
0 -
You don’t really belong on CT P56, you are way to normal & honest. The general trend is to BS, big up everything in your life & flaunt your education/money/job et al. PS-you so need to moan too😂😂😂
1 -
I honestly don't think that they would get any idea. We stayed on a Cl two years ago which was nearly fully booked all season. Two years before that the owner was about to close after being open for many years and getting fewer and fewer bookings to the point of a couple of months having none. A friend suggested putting electricity on site and from there she went from strength to strength. Not being a caravanner herself she had not appreciated what most modern caravanners want/need.
3 -
To attract me to use a CL it would first and foremost be near something of interest, village, town,country house by foot/bike or on a bus route. It would need the minimum of electrics and level pitches, preferably hardstandings. On the point about hardstandings and planning permission. One way round this would be to make the access road into the CL slightly wider so that in wet conditions a motorhome could put their front wheels on the road, this might do away with the need for complete hardstandings? Water and waste disposal I imagine would be taken for granted. I don't need toilet or shower blocks as I have all those facilities in my van. Access to the site should not be down a long single track road and the access into the site should be wide enough. I don't ask for a lot
I have only ever stayed on a handful of CL's but this was one of my favourites http://www.davidklyne.co.uk/GaleriversideCL.htmDavid
0 -
A 'husband and wife team' could run what in effect is two separate CLs on their land and so double the potential occupancy. I know one such farm which has done this, the two 'fields' are separated only by the farm's access lane running between them. Both seem to be fairly well occupied in the summer months although we have a preference for the west side site as the views are wonderful.
0 -
Mickysf - I see you're another early riser!! Interesting point and we have stayed on one such site at Kirbymoorside where the owner is running two CLs, side by side with only a token hedge/fence to separate them. In a very nice way, I asked him how he managed to have ten vans on site and he confirmed that he was running two CLs. Since he provided all the usual facilities, EHU etc plus two toilets, he was hardly being greedy charging £11 per night!
However, friends who run a CS, not more than 5 miles away (same local authority area) have a problem in that if the weather is bad, tents tend to cancel and he is left with loads of spare capacity on a 2 acre site in two distinct areas of the farm. He has attempted to get permission for a CL and CS together, two CS's or a CS and small commercial site limited to five vans (any more would spoil the atmosphere of the site) and has been told it's a definite 'no-no'. I know that Ryedale Council have a reputation for being very picky when it comes to planning applications, but is someone bending the rules?
0 -
From my conversations with the CS owner (see above), I don't think either Club allows it.
0 -
You realise, that everything you quote does not actually require ehu? To your list I would add charging points for the electronic devices we drag aground. In my case add a mifi unit that allows me to work from home in the van. I can have Skype conference calls with colleagues and customers arround the world, exactly the same as at home or in the office. None of these actually require ehu.
I have no intention now or in the future of roughing it when I go away in the caravan.
I would also agree with you that things have moved on in the last 10 years. The decrease in price of solar has made the creation of power easier. The increasing prevalence of LED’s both for lighting and in TVs has reduced the demand for power of these items.
If you want to trip me up mention that you need to be connected to a hairdryer and microwave 24/7 I have no answer to this.
But despite all of the above. If I was setting up a CL, I would consider ehu pretty essential. This is because most of your customers can’t see the diffence between a feature and a genuine benefit.
Then, I would also do my sums very carefully. To see if a CL would be a worthwhile enterprise. A calculation that I think that many CL owners are making because the number of CLs is reducing year on year. So opening one is probably swimming against the tide.
1 -
We caravan all year round and EHU is only essential during winter months as I don't want the heating to go off in the middle of the night as it might if the gas ran out. Our current and previous carvan have a solar panel which keeps the battery charged; nearly 2 years ago we spent a couple of weeks in the Lake District where it rained on many days (not suprising!) and had no problems with power.
We use CL's 99% of the time and our only critiria is that it must be at least 2 acres.
We have been on sites where the caravans have been so close you can hear the conversations (and other noises!) from adjacant caravans and it's not nice!
Cliff
2 -
Cliff, Conside getting an autochange over regulator ours works brilliantly as long as I remember to switch on both bottles. Gone are the days of bottle needing changing a 3am or half way through cooking breakfast. Ironically I got ours when the Truma regulator failed. It was cheaper to buy the changeover regulator than a replacement Truma.
Sorry thread drift.
0 -
Actually there is. If you have two bottles A and B then you can select which you want as your primary bottle. By moving the clear dome. (You can see the pointer on the picture. When you open up that bottle the indicators go from red to to green. When the bottle runs out the indicator goes to red but takes gas from the second bottle. Trust me a lot better than getting up a 3 in the morning
0 -
“If you want to trip me up mention that you need to be connected to a hairdryer and microwave 24/7 I have no answer to this“
We have a small inverter permanently wired in and I’m able to run a hot brush. We took the microwave out & have a cavernous pan cupboard for real cooking 😉
Do you run your gas heater overnight? I’m a bit nervous about this which is why we use EHU during the winter months.
Apolgies Ian for going off topic...
1 -
To stop a thread going totally off track. I have opened a new one
0
