So what did the Club ever do for Motorcaravanners?
It’s a while now since the Club was renamed, to reflect that there are lots of motorhomers among Members - but apart from the name change, what has and does the Club plan to do to cater effectively for motorhomers?
Well there has been a programme of improving motorhome servicepoints, to provide drive-over grey water drains, but at the club Site I most recently stayed at there was no lighting at this service point (unlike the others) so using it after dark (and it was dark at 4.30pm that day) was a matter of struggling with a torch. But I haven’t noticed anything else specifically for motorhomers and in response a suggestion that the Club should develop overnight parking stops for motorhome like the Aires on the continent, I read somewhere that the Club’s only response was to wonder whether a discussion about whether this was a more appropriate thing for the Government rather than the Clubs to be considering.
CAMC is of course a commercial operator of full scale caravan sites and jolly good they are too but these cater primarily for people who want to stay for quite a number of days, like caravanners do, while lots of motorhomers (certainly on the Continent) make lots of use of more basic overnight parking, to stay for one or two nights only and then move on. Some motorhomers do use their vehicles like caravans and stay on a Site for a while but lots more enjoys their holidays by keeping moving along.
For holidaying in this mode motorhomers don’t need a toilet block, resident staff and manicured grass around them every night; on most nights they don’t need much more than parking, a supply of drinking water, a drain for grey water and somewhere to empty the chemical toilet. CAMC should be just as capable of building good Night Halt locations as it is at building full scale caravan sites - and operating them profitably. There are lots of Aires on the continent which charge good money (and use barrier entry operated with credit cards etc) as well as the free ones provided (as a tourist facility and an attraction) by many local authorities.
There may be an argument for local authorities to build Aires as tourist attractions etc but there is also, quite separately, an argument for CAMC showing initiative in building a network of Aires in UK as a service to it’s Motorhome Members. I think a network of CAMC Motorhome Nightstops would compliment the network of Club Sites and serve to promote them too - for example each Night Halt could easily display advertising material about nearby Club Sites. And motorhomers who use Aires also tend to use full scale caravan sites periodically as well, for example to have a ‘laundry day”.
Isn’t someone on the Club’s staff or committees already thinking about this avenue of development - and if so can we hear something about their ideas?
Comments
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I have a sense of déjà vu…
Stuart, you are forgetting one thing - this is the Caravan and Motorhome Club. What you suggest would be great for a motorhome club to provide but you are proposing to use this club's funds to create a whole raft of sites just for motorhomers and you would exclude the majority of members - caravanners - from these motorhome nightstops.
Let's not even get into the nuts and bolts of land acquisition, funds, need etc etc but, whether there is a genuine need for these 'aires' in this country or not, your proposal plainly isn’t fair to the majority of members.
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do not condem or condon your suggestions, and even if the CAMC did embark on such an adventurous programme, i will probably be pushing up daises before it came to fruition, but i think some of your logic may be a little bit flawed.
as a caravanner not interested in Aires type facilities, but not sure i can see why the club would be keen to invest in such facilities. Sure during peak seasons when most sites are full they may be of some use, but what about all those long out of season periods when sites have pitches available, why would you encourage people to pitch up for £5 per night when you can charge them £15 on a multi purpose site, where, even if you only have 25pct occupancy you still have to provide full facilities.
I think a network of CAMC Motorhome Nightstops would compliment the network of Club Sites and serve to promote them too - for example each Night Halt could easily display advertising material about nearby Club Sites.
but why would Mh'ers be interested in multi purpose sites if they have all that they need on the Aires type facilities for a fraction of the cost and retain the ability of freedom of movement that MH's seem to want.
If we want to discourage free loading wild campers, as I am told is the case in France, then great, but as TW has pointed out, the logistics of setting up these facilities, with a danger that they might detract users from the core business could be very risky, but if you look at an alternative, it may just free up more pitches on the multi purpose site during peak periods for caravanners in particular wanting to stay for say 1 or 2 weeks in 1 place.
I guess on this i am probaly sitting on the fence, and will probably be sitting here for a long time yet.
Good luck with this going forward
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I don't follow your seperation of motor caravans from trailer caravans. They are both used in the same manner, as are the "campervans" that the Club was so recently telling us we were "crazy" for.
A network of overnight halts supported, if not actually run, by the Club is a very good idea but should be engineered to cater for all caravanners whether the engine is in the caravan or seperate.
There was such a network of "night halts" that I remember but I can't recall when it was discontinued as a Club supported concept. There was one at Tebay Services M6 northbound to the left of the entrance slip road, between the recently closed commercial site and the main motorway carriageway. Roads, etc are still there.
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Personally I don't think it to be a viable proposition for the CC and hence for the majority of club members.
I see a scarcity of entrepreneurs setting up such facilities other than as an adjunct to existing business or under used facility such as P&Rs or car parks perhaps outside peak hours
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I always look upon the CL, CS type of site provision as UK Aire type stops. Not as cheap as on Continent (allegedly) but often far nicer. The old argument about not being sited in towns doesn’t wash with us. No such thing as MH unfriendly towns, just buyers who bought an inconvenient size MH for what they want to do........
And as caravanners, we didn’t need toilet blocks then, and still don’t now.
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Members who have never toured abroad will have had no experience of Aires de Camping Car, as the French call them, but take it from me there are a huge number of them and they are very popular. Likewise caravanners (“tuggers”) will not have had the experience either because trailer caravans are not allowed to use them. There are relatively few in UK and this is at leats partly due to the negative influence of caravan site proprietors who don’t want what they see as competition (including perhaps CAMC) and local authorities who don’t see any value in the idea and worry about Travellers.
CAMC has developed many services which only small sections of Members use so I reject the idea that nothing can be developed which doesn’t serve the trailer caravanners among Members is blinkered and selfish. CAMC has now got lots of motorhomers as members and it’s about time the Club faced up to serving them properly as well.
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The trouble is, Stuart, your idea purports vast financial investment to provide numerous night halts across the country for the exclusive benefit of motorhomers. That's very different from providing MHSPs, play areas or dog walks, all of which encourage people to visit mainstream club sites.
I'm not disputing a possible need for aire type facilities, although I don't personally feel the need, but my gripe is the inappropriateness of this club entering such a huge undertaking which will exclude the majority of members. Those same members excluded from the night halts will be paying for them via their club fees. That’s inequality at its worst.
PS. Have you looked up the previous threads where this had been debated?
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Your argument is fundermentally flawed in that as said if it would be financially viable then there would already be the type of motor caravan stop over you see on the continent ,but looking at the majority of cc or ccc sites motor caravans are in the uk used much as caravans are and tend to stay put once on site,
and "over there" how many UK reg motor caravans do you see useing aires compared to others of other countries ,hence the proliferation of aires
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Most Aires on the continent have been set up by the local communities, even creating them where Municipal Campsites are close by, sometimes even putting them on the front of the site. What you are asking for is for Aires to be created and subsidised by members who will be excluded from using them. Not going to happen.
Nothing to stop any other organisation or Town/city councils from creating them. I certainly feel that there is a need for them in certain parts of the UK, for example the Scotland 500 is now inundated with Motorhomes that tend to wild camp (not all of them I know before anyone tries to correct me) and the Scottish Govt may well find that as tourism is one of their biggest income earners that they embark on these type of facilities. The CAMC? No way.
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CAMC has developed many services which only small sections of Members use so I reject the idea that nothing can be developed which doesn’t serve the trailer caravanners among Members is blinkered and selfish.
Oh Dear, Oh Dear. Stand and look into the mirror fella if you want to view selfish!
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Members who have never toured abroad will have had no experience of Aires de Camping Car, as the French call them, but take it from me there are a huge number of them and they are very popular.
perhaps to the detrement of the main sites. my daughter (tugger) stayed on a site in France last year during July and it only had 75% occupancy, and the owner was complaining because across the road was an Aires with parking for many Mh's which was always full.
As a tugger you are right I am excluded from using Aires, but how do these work, surely there must be a degree of maintenance/cleaning/supervision required that all costs money, I cant believe in the UK something on the line of an Aires charging say £5 per night would be self sufficient.
and local authorities who don’t see any value in the idea and worry about Travellers.
very true, and if you should visit the Gosport/Fareham area you would see the amount of money spent on building fortifications to hold these at bay.
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The danger of comparing the UK with European countries is that we have no tradition of Aire type stopovers in the UK. If they were starting from scratch would the French? Would they now provide Municipal Campsites? It's not only in this country that local authorities are feeling the pinch. Despite the enthusiasm for Aire type stops it is quite telling that no one, as far as I am aware, has started such a project as a commercial enterprise. OK I know a few more local authorities are more motorhome friendly than many others. If there was an area where the Club could help it would be in persuading other local authorities to make provision for parking of motorhomes during the day, let alone overnight. When the Club have the opportunity to expand their network of pitches they have to think of both motorhomers and caravanners. I can imagine a few raised eyebrows if motorhomers were seen to be getting preferential expenditure at the expense of caravanners who are still the majority of Club members. Those caravanners will see the conversion of waste points as sensible but the provision of separate Aires just for motorhomers I think they would be justifiably enraged!
David
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Despite the enthusiasm for Aire type stops it is quite telling that no one, as far as I am aware, has started such a project as a commercial enterprise
perhaps not a big commercial enterprise, but i think i have read somewhere on this forum where some pubs are providing facilities, i guess in the hope that they will get some additional trade for meals/drinks
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There are certain areas that would benifit from Aire type sites. However, for the CAMC to develop / run them, I think they would have to be accessible to both caravaners and MH's. Echelon drive through spaces, long enough for all rigs and with at 6 metre spacing should do it. One drive over waste grid, tap and toilet dump could be used by all. Site perhaps 20 to 30 units in size.
I have no idea if such a facility would be economic. Particularly given the high land prices in many of the areas that would be most desirable. Especially if folk thought they were going to get them for what they pay over there.
They would still of couse exclude smaller campervans and trailer tents without facilities. Although this would be the case with existing non facility sites.
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Motorhomers without other transport will pay a lot for location.
Given the right location parking for motorhomes can be very profitable - this one in the photo is €45 (£38) a night. But this Club can't get the urban locations and is losing Baltic Wharf and Crystal Palace.
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I had a look at a new CL in Appin a few years ago when it had just opened and it has the parallel drive through pitches. £15 a night in the current system as 1906.
The view, however, is worth far more - unless it's raining!
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"CAMC has now got lots of motorhomers as members…"
But not you. 😐
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Many municipals in France have either converted to Aires or done a mixture of sites with Fire attached.
In answer to DK's observation that no one, as far as I am aware, has started such a project as a commercial enterprise, There is https://campingcarpark.com/en/ which is a French chain of Aires.
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‘So what did the club ever do for Motorcaravanners?’
they changed the name for you to make you feel all warm & fuzzy inside. You are now officially equal👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻😊
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The OP is either a visionary or a dreamer . 😇
My guess ......dreamer .😘
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yes, there's a hint of France Passion in the Britstops concept...
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Agree with you there, TW. Yet another non-member with a big spoon.
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