Green questions to ask when buying
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no and I'm glad you share my pain
well the school finished at 2.30 anyway
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There’s nothing wrong with anarchists starting early. We can’t all be robots who are slaves to the system👍🏻
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Blimey, I wasn't intending to stir quite such a hornet's nest! All sorts of motives are being imputed to my OP, apparently I'm hypocritically trying to force people to change their habits against their wills. That was not my intention. Maybe I was being naive. I regret that this post ends up being quite long.
Climate change is accepted by something like 97% of independent scientists to be occurring, from NASA to observers of what's happening in the natural world, likewise they state that it's affected by human activity.
As Brue pointed out, many manufacturers are taking this on board, and moving towards making improvements. Whether they're doing this from Green motives, or because they realise that this direction is where the money moves, is almost immaterial, it results in more efficient vehicles and less waste. That seems like something worth having.
Caravans and motor homes are not particularly Green, but then, as we've said, very little we now do is, and given the platform of technology we've been born into, ditching it all is an impractical suggestion, we couldn't undo everything since the Industrial Revolution if we wanted to. But 'vans can be made to be less inefficient, and with better materials.
So I'm not aiming to take a high moral ground, I'm suggesting that it's a useful thing if more manufacturers make less damaging new products, so we can continue to enjoy what we're doing while limiting the ill effects. Rather like the National Trust accepting that loads of people are going to walk up whichever mountain, and putting a stone path in place. It's not an improvement in itself and annoys some people no end, but it limits the damage to the environment and still allows more people to get their fix of hill walking.
It's equally apparent that there are those here who prefer not to believe that such climate change is happening, or if it is, it's not affected by what humans do. There's little I or anyone can do to change their minds here, so I'm not seriously trying.
For the others here who accept that it is, to those I made the suggestion that if they are buying new vehicles, then posing questions about the Green-ness of the product might be worth considering. I chose my language carefully, aiming it at "if you think it's a good idea please consider" rather than "you should".
If sales staff don't pass feedback to their companies, that seems to me like a poor sales team from the company's point of view.On the issue of cheap or not - in this household we do sometimes deliberately buy more expensive if we think it'll be a better product and less environmentally damaging. And no, we don't have a vast income. That's our choice. I'd suggest that sometimes cheap for its own sake is more costly in the long run - aren't there posts after posts here about poor build quality of new vans, ascribed to cost cutting in production?
I hope this helps, though I have a dreadful suspicion that whatever I say will annoy some. It's not meant to.
It's seriously tempting to comment on the school strike, but that's going OT, so I'll not
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HH, this is the only bit of your post I’ll comment on -
“It's equally apparent that there are those here who prefer not to believe that such climate change is happening, or if it is, it's not affected by what humans do. There's little I or anyone can do to change their minds here, so I'm not seriously trying.”
I believe you’re mistaken as I’ve seen no one saying they don’t believe climate change is happening. You’ve made a huge leap there from those who have simply spoken with from a realistic point of view.
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embracing a tree and drinking purified water
While that seems idyllic, I need to ask about the environmental costs of building and running the filtration, and the disposal of what gets filtered out.
I also question the assertion that using caravans for holidays is non-green. Surely there is a bad impact on the environment constructing aircraft and attendant landing facilities, supplying fuel and the plastic meals, then the hotel fully air-conditioned and the pool filtration, should I go on an alternative type of holiday. And lots more.
So perhaps what needs to be questioned is people taking holidays at all? Back to hugging the tree and drinking (polluted) rain water.
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As TW say and HH just one point, until you actually sell your outfit and go back to tents you are taking the moral high ground. You are preaching (do as I say not as I do) what we should do while you carry on enjoying your outfit despite your beliefs. When, and if, you post you have sold it and replaced it with a bike then you are a taking a hypocritical stance and that is what will annoy some.
If you seriously believe that humans are responsible for climate change (and nobody is saying otherwise) then that includes you, so then never mind spending a few coppers (a few percentage of your income) on those 'better products' make a bold stance and sell your outfit. Surely then you will have done all you can for your beliefs.
Will you? I suspect not, your elastic sense of being green doesn't stretch that far does it?
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Is that a specific product or just a generic expression? I am about to do the annual de-greening and would like an effective product to avoid too much scrubbing - especially on the roof.
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There are a number of different brands.some contain wax some are very aggresive.I usually buy from e bay or amazon and a 5ltr will last quite a long time.Look for tfr with wax non aggresive.It removes road grime and the green.Be careful with decals etc as the stronger solutions can be damaging.To be fair,I have found fenwicks does a good job if you allow it to soak and then go over again.Ref.the roof......once cleaned and dry I spray with "wet and forget" and that does a good job of keeping the greens at bay
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The one I am using at the moment cost about £14.50 delivered (pure coincidence that it is green!) I also use it to wash the windows of our bungalow and it works well.
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The greenest thing is to drive round in your forty year old gas guzzler. It's the production of stuff that has the biggest impact. Over the years we have become wedded to constant change/upgrading. It's like company's growth figures. Continual growth in anything from production to people is dependent on infinite resources. In case nobody has noticed, this planet is finite.
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I'm with cyberyacht on this, a quality well made caravan or motorhome that gives many,many years of service ...that is far 'greener' than poor quality product that needs lots of remedial work during its probably short active lfe. The Real showdown is rapidly approaching as towing vehicles get lower towing capabilities and Caravans with all their now 'necessary' gadgets, stay heavy and sometimes get heavier.
I see medium commercial vehicles (used as motorhome bases) going self charging electric, and hopefully keeping a good load margin.
Testing times.
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About a year ago there was news of a flexible solar panel that could be fitted to the exterior of vans and the suggestion was made that shortly all new caravans would have have the exterior made of this material. Not seen any more but would be a nice thought that motor caravans might be able to become solar powered.
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Yes, I spotted that and thought what a great idea it would be.
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This tends to be our policy. If it still works, is reliable and comfy, we don’t feel the need to keep buying new. But no point in keeping something if it no longer suits, or cannot be economically maintained, or is no longer comfortable.
Dare I mention the one single factor that could save our planet, and so contentious it is never debated.............overpopulation?
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If the necessary moral qualification for starting any discussion of possible ways of encouraging improvements in new caravan's/MH's , in order to respond to increasing awareness of environmental changes which apparently nobody's denying, is non-ownership of the any caravans or MH's. then any such discussion here would probably be vanishingly short
What's to gain by trying to discourage it?1 -
The very MOST polluting places are Cities like London, with slow moving heavy diesel powered vehicles.....like Buses.If they really are putting Diesels in and removing electric motors? Then the PLAN has failed.....time to start producing Trolley Buses again ? Single to Earls Court please I hear there is a Caravan show on. Might buy a nice Bluebird Pathfinder to tow behind my Zephyr. Aint the future bright ?
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Please can anyone point to a reliable source of the information about hybrid buses in London being replaced, or not? So far the most up-to-date information I'm finding is at https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-and-air-quality/cleaner-buses
which makes no mention of this, just lists what they're using and the improvements they're making. Slightly confusingly, given the posts above, it does then say
"TfL will introduce around 3,000 ultra low emission double-deck buses in central London by 2019 and over 250 zero emission single-deck buses into central London by 2020.Euro VI is the latest standard in diesel engines, reducing emissions of NOx by up to 95 per cent compared to the previous generation of buses. Since 2014 new buses have been supplied with these ultra low emission engines, and they are introduced across London at a rate of between 700 and 1,000 buses a year."
Which seems to mean that they're using electric in central London & new diesel on the routes further out, but doesn't really answer the question.
I have found https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33569460 but this is from 2015, and doesn't really bring us up to date, things may have changed since then.0 -
you're twisting my words, I didn't say non ownership (that could imply never having one), I said sell your outfit and go without (a different thing altogether) so show some moral fibre to your beliefs. Until that point your are acting hypocritically.
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It’s good that HH agrees via his 'like'👍🏻
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I keep vans around 10 years (provided they aren't nicked or fall apart) I don't do short or long haul flight holiday's or hotels. I have just read that a car at 25-30 mpg has 60% of the emmisions of a plane(per passenger short haul 300 miles car and plane)
This was a US piece hence the low mpg, but that's roughly what I get towing.
Is our hobby not inherently greener than flight based holiday's?
Plus we probably use less water gas and electricity and do less laundry than hotels.
That's green enough for me
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+1
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