Green questions to ask when buying
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as a sort of adversarial provocation
nothing of the sort really, just perhaps that you are trying to force your views on the rest of us, asking us to believe in your views, while IMHO, really not doing anything yourself (ie sell your outfit).
You seem to have an elastic sense of being green, yes you appear to have these strong views on improving our environment yet it's Ok for you to run a large tow car and towing a caravan? As people have said isn't that slightly incongruous?
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Is actually putting a solar panel and associated kit on caravans & motorhomes, whether wanted by the buyer or not, really "green"?
These things are not made without some impact, and also lugging them around where not needed is not without impact. Plonking one down flat on a van roof is way off using them efficiently anyway, so further resource waste there.
I want a panel, but know enough about them to not want a van mounted one. However, as predominantly non EHU users I feel we are in a minority group.
Given that minority, I don't see the vast majority of main site users joining us and giving up their facilities that require an EHU, so fitting panels is just more waste.
In addition, I don't see low environmental impact solar replicating a 3.8 kW EHU, potentially continuous feed, coming anytime soon. Going way over the top could, but with serious upfront and ongoing impact, for what is always going to be limited time use.
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Hmm, my intention wasn't to force views on you all, Corners, I can see that could be annoying. I'm not meaning to get at anyone. The only people I sought to provoke were the makers of these things, to help all of us be less damaging than we already are, just as in the bigger world, cars have got a lot more efficient and cleaner through pressure on the makers.
Not suggesting anyone takes up hair shirts here - as I said, we're living on the platform of technology and infrastructure we've got, and unless you're a lot younger and more energetic than me, completely ditching it would be impossibly tough for any of us. But a moderate improvement seems better than no improvement, and pushing for better equipment would, I thought, be good for all.
Now, where's that woolly mammoth I was just going out to hunt....
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"The only people I sought to provoke were the makers of these things…"
HH, you’re talking to end users here rather than your targeted audience - the manufacturers. Maybe you’re not putting your case in the best place or from the best stance? 🤔
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Yeah, but I'd rather wait until we've finished using the van before it auto-recycles
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True enough, TW, most of those reading here have already bought their vans. But some readers might still be potential customers, and it would be nice to think that customers drive the makers' responses. I realise it's far from always the case!
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Those who get it are probably the younger end.those who do not are likely to be the more mature type and realise that a few protesters do not reflect the majority opinion on these matters (in my opinion)
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It’s not a case of 'others' not 'getting' it, Freddy, but no one who drives a commercial vehicle or drags a big box around the country with a powerful car purely for pleasure has any moral highground for trying to persuade the rest of us, or the industry, to become greener. Our hobby cannot be seen in any way as being 'green' and it is a laughable position to be campaigning from.
That's what neither HH, nor you 'get' and continuance with the hobby while attempting to persuade others to do things differently can be viewed as hypocrisy.
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I wonder if potential customers would consider asking the sales teams what they're doing to make their vehicles less environmentally unfriendly - emissions, materials used, recyclability of parts, and anything else relevant.
The sales staff have no idea what is being done to make the product environmentally friendly. Their job is to sell. They are not going to influence the manufacturer.
On another note somebody was going on on another thread about the use of electricity on hobs. Surely using an electric plate on the caravan cooker is environmentally friendlier than using gas? That's why we get all the talk of electric vehicles
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I "get it" too and there's no moral highground involved. You'll find most companies nowadays have environmental policies in place, some do more than others but here's one from a well known van company.
Quite a bit of thought goes into the working environment and the production facilities, I presume the OP wants to know more about the actual policies for van builds? But it looks as though you'll find the answers on company web sites.
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You’re absolutely right, Brue, but the difference is that you’ve stated facts rather than urging others to take up the cause whilst continuing to contribute to the issue.👍🏻
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so Freddy and the OP...
you have narrowed your new caravan down to two 'identical' layout/ models from two manufactures with the same build quality/warranty/features... but one is say £3000 cheaper than the other.
The more expensive one had your salesman/manufacture answer all you 'green' questions to your satisfaction. The cheaper didn't have any answers.
So would you then really put your money where your mouth is?
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You obviously don’t get it either. This thread was never about radical changes in people’s habits, AFAIC. It was about trying, probably naively, to get across to the manufacturers the need to make sensible choices (where possible) when it comes to sourcing their materials and the processes/materials used during manufacture, oh yes, and design. I would turn your point around and ask you, there are two identical caravans on the forecourt, same price, but one was manufactured by a company that had made a conscious decision to act in a more environmentally responsible manner. Which one would you choose?
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I don’t think anyone disputes the message to the manufacturer bit, Freddy, but the OP was addressing us and beseeching us, the profligate users of LVs, to effectively put pressure on salesmen. It’s not about green v non-green but about the method used by the OP in trying to get his message across.
- Salesmen are not the right people to address this issue or even to know the answers to questions. They do not work for the manufacturers and are paid by results.
- We, as LV-ers have no justifiable stance on this unless we stop using our outfits in an effort to 'save the planet'. I’ll say it yet again, to both use LVs and campaign under the green banner is an apparent hypocritical stance and one it seems, unfortunately, fits the OP. I’m sad to say that as I have nothing against the guy and admire his enthusiasm.
- The message the OP wants to impart is missing the mark by being posted here. I said earlier "HH, you’re talking to end users here rather than your targeted audience - the manufacturers. Maybe you’re not putting your case in the best place or from the best stance?" I stand by that.
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I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with that. But if enough people ask the question? I wouldn’t want to be the salesman unable to answer the question “Do you practice green policies?” or suchlike.
Im on no crusade, but sensible change? I’m all for that.
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easy, the cheaper one, every single time. Totally honest answer.
now I've answered yours...
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my thoughts entirely TW, certainly missing the mark all over!
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If they were identical what is there to choose? They all have the same materials and components. The fact that one company claims to be green makes no difference.
Now if one were built out of environmentally friendly tissue paper and the other on environmentally damaging plastic I would choose the plastic.
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All the children who went on "strike?" yesterday to protest about the way our generations are destroying their world can do more than just "protest?" they could stop useing the things in their teck run world by giving up their phones /tablets, being driven every where, and flying to their multiple holidays which are doing more than most things at damaging the planet,in the raw materials that go into their costly to the planet production
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Hear, hear, both of you! - JV and Easy. 👍🏻
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opps sorry yes
The one that was nearer to my home (time more than fuel btw) the one who offered me more free gifts, the one who offered me more coffee, the one whose dealership looked nicer, the one whose sales-person was nicer, the one who is more more knowledgeable about the van (actually used that one), the one who looked more professional, the one who I felt (rightly or wrongly) was being more honest with me, the one who offered more for my old van/was complimentary about it.
So basically for me I would not take into account any 'green' at all.
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Yes I was really annoyed about that. I had a day's supply yesterday and all the classes I had had full attendance!!!
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