What constitutes an awning?
Hi everyone,
Still new to this game. :-)
We have an IH panel van conversion, 6.4 metres long. If we book a 'Pitch Without Awning' does that mean that we would not be able to use our wind-out awning at all? Forgive me if this seems a stupid question, but I do feel there is a difference between those luxurious and enormous awnings that effectively doubles the size of a caravan, and which takes some time to erect and dismantle, and our simple wind-out affair which just takes minutes to open and strap down and which just provides a bit of cover from the weather.
What is the official take on what is an awning, please? If I book a pitch without awning and then wind my awning out, and perhaps put a windbreak side on, will I be breaking the rules and find myself in trouble with the site wardens?
Many thanks,
Mike.
Comments
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In brief - yes you break the rules. Always advisable to talk to site wardens. You can't put 'sides' onto a wind out canopy on a non-awning pitch. You may use a wind out canopy but must maintain the 3 metre fire break between your canopy and your neighbouring unit. If you want to use your wind out canopy and erect 'sides' to it, it's best to book a standard pitch with awning.
Here's a statement from the club published some time ago. Hope this helps.
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To be honest Jill, I think the Club could provide better information about roll out awnings. They are accepted on none awning pitches, accept they might not be able to be fully extended, but putting up one side wind screen hardly constitutes an awning, and wouldn’t alter the fire spacing. It’s a very grey area, and must be getting more prevalent on Sites as MH usage increases.
Not questioning what you have put, just that it doesn’t quite fit what the OP is asking about. Is a windshield an awning, if erected temporarily. Bit like pegging a windbreak out on a none awning pitch.
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Accept what you're saying tda and don't disagree. Just posting current statement. My take on it is the restriction concerns the windshield and /or canopy affecting the 3 metre fire gap.
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It’s unclear, to me a roll out with a side in is a windbreak. Of course you might only be able to put a side in if the roll out is fully extended. To avoid any issues, until Club clarifies this, best book an awning pitch. Fine at moment, there’s no difference in pricing.
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I totally agree about as transparent as mud!
We generally book an awning pitch, same price quite a few more inches 😉😂. We have a wind out awning that may or may not got out, doesn't get left open if we leave the site without the MH or overnight. Dependinding on the wind we may deploy a windbreak. Might have done that on a non awning pitch can't recall but have never been told about it by a warden.
Each to their own way of using club sites with their Van's but I do agree in the size of large caravan, equally large awning and large car - necessary to tow the aforesaid 😂 does need considerably more space.
I'm all for fire regs privacy etc but some clarity would be very valuable. Bit like parking to the peg exactly when all the space you take up is a vehicle width instead of the aforesaid. Still the club must cram the spaces that tightly to maximize revenue.
If there ever comes a time when awning pitches are more expensive, it's likely to happen in the nearish future as the club have made so many price bands for the seasons it's all that's left to tweak 😉. If we're still members I will want decent clarification, which may have to include not only awning details but MH's that tow. I agree a wind out canopy/awning only take space of tow vehicle it doesnt contain flammable fuel etc like a vehicle!
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The ambiguity, coupled with the fact that non-awning pitches are often squashed in odd corners, means I always book an awning pitch. The exception being Warwick Racecourse where the non-awning pitches are more level and on HS.
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We have spent January booking a variety of sites with various providers right through to November. With the exception of one, Bunree, where non awning are on the lochside, all pitches booked with this club are awning pitches. Same price, more room, a better choice of pitches and we have the flexibility to take a small utility tent with us if we so choose or wind out the canopy without fear of encroaching.
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Thanks for your replies, folks, glad to see it's not such a stupid question after all.
I have been noticing that 'pitches with awnings' do sell out first, plus also I've been of the opinion that I won't take an awning pitch if I don't need one, I'm happy to leave those for the families with big outfits who may need them, although I guess if I do find that the non-awning pitches are not as nice as the awning ones, I may change that policy.
I think, based on what I've read, (thanks JillwithaJay for posting that clarification), when on a non-awning pitch I'll use my roll-out 'canopy or sunshade', making sure I maintain a 3 metre gap, and may even slide in a mesh windbreak on one side, and see if anyone complains.
Thanks folks.
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The way I look at it is the Club has allowed roll out type sun shades on non awning pitches as a temporary method of providing shade subject to certain space considerations. Once you attach anything to it, like a side screen, most will be tempted to pin that down to stop it flapping around and as such you have a semi fixed structure which is not allowed. I think people are trying to complicate things a bit here. If you feel the need to attach sides to a roll out then you need to book a full awning pitch which gives you the freedom to add as much or as little as you wish.
David
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I hear what you are saying David but this is not complicated nor is it based entirely on logical reasoning. Thing is an awning is permitted on an awning pitch if it maintains the 3m separation. So the only thing stopping an awning on a non awning pitch which still maintains that 3m separation are the 'words' contained in the rule itself, nothing else. Nothing wrong with this as long as we all understand and accept that it's only the words which bind us to that rule in this instance. Now that's not complicated is it?
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We always book an awning pitch if we can. Our little MH usually looks a bit lost on one, but it does give a bit more privacy. There were lots of little camper vans at YRP last Summer, they looked even more lost than us. The tester will come if the Club ever decides to base charges on pitch size, like CintheF do. We like sites where you are given a space and can do what you like with it so long as the firebreak is followed. 👍
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Thing is that in life people generally dislike rules which are ambiguous or illogical. This non-awning rule is both. Okay, so it would be best to have a rule which states anything goes as far as pitching is concerned as long as firebreaks are maintained! Unfortunately though I'd bet a lot of people would be asked to move if this was the case. Maybe some of us just need a little more guidance or help to get things right which is where the ambiguity creeps in.
So, can anyone answer this? Why are trailer tents, which have 'parts' which could be considered awning like allowed on non-awning pitches. The answer I guess is that if they maintain the stipulated firebreaks that's absolutely fine. After all there is no written rule specifically forbidding trailer tents on any type of pitches is there?0 -
Agree it wouldn’t work any more on Club Sites. Pitches are too small, and the membership nowadays loves all the rules and regs. It wasn’t always thus, but you just have to go with it nowadays.
Beddgelert used to be superb, you just rolled up and pitched up anywhere. We once pitched our tent right next to a path, only to find out there was a big MTB event on.....we moved!🤣
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With the comments referring to paying according to the size of the pitch.
Can you refrain, all that does is send the wrong message to the club. They will see it as a way to earn more money. One thing is for certain, they wouldn't consult the members.
Not everyone has an income to support larger pitches even though I use an awning.
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Trouble is I think you are playing with semantics. Currently the Club allow a wind out awning (only) on a non awning pitch on the basis that it can be quickly retracted. If people start asking to allow sun blockers to be installed then I wonder how long before the Club actually turn round and say no wideout sunshades on non awning pitches? The club have to have rules which are easy to understand and that don't put their staff in a possible conflict situation with members. The simpler the rules the easier it is for everyone to understand. If members require anything more than that they need to book an awning pitch.
David
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David, nothing to do with semantics, what has that to do with the 3m rule? Surely everything would need to be retractable if your stance is taken.
Now are you arguing that we do as our 'headmaster' says, cos that's what he says? Not that there is anything wrong in that if we all agree!
I'm here to eliminate symantics, all I want is clarity and a reasoned understanding!
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.....the other thing I notice is that the Club says that motorhomers can use a wind out awning providing that the 3 metre gap is maintained. Does this mean that caravans with a wind out awning are prohibited in using a wind out, even if the awning is exactly the same as an awning found on a motorhome? 🙂
I don't know when the statement about wind out awning was produced, but perhaps the time has come for the Club to revise the statement for the purpose of clarity.
David
Edit: Oops!! I forgot about the car!!!! 🤫🤫🤫. David
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Maybe the difference is that the caravan will have a car on the pitch as well, David.
I agree that it’s time many of the anomalies throughout the club's rules need sorting. I guess they've been added to over the years as innovations occur. They’d probably do it differently if they were starting from here.
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We all need to be careful what we wish for at the current moment, if you get my drift! Life has a tendency to throw up some unwanted surprises!
🤔😲
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I think we’re talking about revision, simplification and clarification of existing rules and practices but if you want more rules, I’m sure the club will oblige. 😎
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I quite agree harryb. Now retired, and on around half what I was earning when working, we have found this year that this clubs sites have become, at times, more expensive than we are prepared to pay. When prices with this club have been approaching or even over £30 per night we have looked elsewhere. During the forthcoming year we have already booked over 30 nights with the camping club, private sites or 5 van sites at much cheaper prices per night. At the end of the day it is only somewhere to park your outfit and putting prices up doesn't always generate more revenue, sometimes quite the opposite...
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DK said...
"Trouble is I think you are playing with semantics. Currently the Club allow a wind out awning (only) on a non awning pitch on the basis that it can be quickly retracted."
surely, the club allows a wind out awning as it occupies the space where a tow car would be....nothing to do with 'quickly retracted'.
in theory, provided that the 'appendage' didn't breach any spacing rules, I don't see why a MH windout shouldn't incorporate front or side panels.
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