Your thoughts on an incident
Comments
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What about witnesses to incident, other than you in car, and man in yellow vest? Did you have any passengers? There are cars behind your van, didn’t you ask them what they saw? Standard response for most folks at a none dangerous incident is to try and get some witnesses to an incident?
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At the time i noticed cars were driving to the left as the security fella was in the middle of the road, in that scenario I would have made a different judgement call, I would not have taken such a close line to the centre line, again that is a different scenario and of course i would have done something different. I was not in that scenario.
I do understand where you are going with your comments, as a fellow towman here is the million dollar question - if you could give yourself some extra room would you take it? whilst considering you thought you were driving cautiously?
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Yes, my partner was in the vehicle and she didnt even see the barrier. In all honesty, she was sitting in the rear nearside so from her angle she would have seen the barrier in a better light than me as I mentioned my A pillar somewhat blocked it - and i know thats not an excuse just my reason as to why i didnt see it. I didnt want to get out as I take pride in what i own and i was pretty upset.
I was advised to go straight to my pitch where someone would call along to speak to me. In hindsight it would have been good to get witnesses but in that state of mind you never think of such things.
I now have a dash cam in all our cars and my works van, once bitten and that
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What other images are available giving a different point of view? Other CCTV cameras near the entrance, dashcams in the cars behind and also those leaving?
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If anyone has been to the site they will know that the road is narrow
If I were giving evidence I would have said that the road width of at least 6.2m was reasonable for such a road. (based on lane width measured on site by yourself Goodchild).
I would have stated that a sensible minimum width for such a section of carriageway with regard to anticipated speeds would be 5.5m and my preferred minimum would be 6m especially with the slight curve and that 6.2m was totally reasonable.
I would probably have provided a simple computer generated drawing shown the swept paths of two vehicles with 8 foot wide caravans passing within the lane widths. I doubt that I would have charged much more than £200 for the documentation plus my costs if attending court.
Be prepared for similar expert evidence
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As far as I am aware they have not documented any expert evidence. If two caravans were to go past each other side by side it would be tight from a drivers point of view, to me that is, especially further down the road as it gets narrow.
All evidence and statements have been sent to the courts as per the directions so we all know what each other has
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I was just pointing out that there is nothing wrong with the alignment and width,. whereas you said 'If anyone has been to the site they will know that the road is narrow '.
I would not say in court that the road was narrow.
It would not be considered as narrow 'If two caravans were to go past each other side by side' and even more so given likely speeds of under 20mph
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I showed OH who has a B+E licence the video and asked her to comment. She said that with no doubt that the driver of the vehicle was at fault as the vehicle had moved towards the middle of the road.
What was said by security guard etc is totally irrelevant and has nothing to do with the fact that the car strayed too far towards the middle of the roadway.
As for facial expression on face of security guard how would that have prevented the barrier striking the car. Even if the security guard had shouted stop, would the driver have been able to stop in time? Not every one's reactions are as fast as the heroes you see on TV. Totally irrelevant in a court of law as the facial expression on the security guards face did not contribute towards the accident.
The driver may have a B+E, but they should have observed that the other barrier was raised and taken into account that it may descend at any time. The driver should also have taken into account the fact that the caravan is a lot wider than the vehicle therefore if the car was close to the white line in the middle more than likely the caravan would stray across the whitet line.
Lastly I am sure that the company will be able to demonstrate many other vehicles with larger caravans passing safely through the barriers and without their caravan being damaged.
I am afraid the OP is going to get a hiding in court and end up with a lot of unnecessary costs.
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Sorry i should have clarified what I meant. When your in your towcar, well for me, your low down, the fencing sort of feels as though your hemmed in but I do understand it is wide enough to go through that i dont disagree, however there, and I hope there was, times when other people have thought to them selves its tight.
I just wanted to avoid the fence thats all, if you look at my first pic a fella kindly put on for me you can see how narrow the road is.
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All evidence and statements have been sent to the courts as per the directions so we all know what each other has
It may well have changed since I was in such a court as I did not need to provide ALL submissions prior to the court and just my defence statements and the basis for my defence.
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There you go again saying how narrow it is. Not a good point to bring up in court as there are many highway network roads taking HGV traffic of more traffic volume and significantly higher speeds that are no wider.
As somebody who has towed for over 25 years and regularly tows distances. Yes I often get the protective feeling that gateways on site are tight even when I know logically that they are not too tight .
My caravan is 2.326m (7'8") wide and a 3m (9'10'') gateway can indeed seem narrow as I approach
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Hi Briang,
I did see the barriers the moment I turned the bend and when i was sitting in traffic, i must have sat for 5 minutes and they never moved, I had no reason to think they would when I set off nor was i advised about them. Sitting in my car I didnt see it and if you were in the car you would understand - my partner never even seen it so something is obviously a miss, Two of us in the car and non of us see it, there has to be a reason, As the driver i was checking my mirrors, i glanced ahead at an opening that was there, little did I know it was on the descent, there are no vehicles coming towards me, I pull over slightly to the white line, caravan overhung by two inches. I am checking my mirrors constantly as i was going over a speed bump and I say it again, i wanted to be away from the fence for my own reasons. I am doing all of this, my partner has nothing to do but to observe her surroundings and she didnt even see it. How hard can it be to accept that yes I should have seen it but I/we didnt.
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As someone who investigated accidents for insurance for many years I do not hold out a lot of hope for you.
The car has no extension mirror on the nearside which will not only means it was illegal to drive on the public highway, but one would almost certainly have enabled you to have driven far closer in on the nearside and seen any cyclist or pedestrian.There is ample room on your measurements and unless there is a history of this type of accident there, I cannot see that you can realistically say the other side should have have been aware of a problem.
Frankly you seem to be trying to blame everything and everybody for what is a basic failure to operate a legal outfit, which should have avoided the accident.
Sorry if this sounds harsh but it is the fact. For me your only possible salvation is that the other side may want to try and save on costs and offer something to compromise the situation.
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Thankyou Wildchild. I take everything onboard. I have to put the blame on someone if i believe I am correct, human nature i guess.
To me this happened from my actions and my actions alone but it could have been avoided, firstly if additional safety devices were fitted, which were advised this would not have happened. Secondly the security man see's it unfolding but decides not to say anything, from the offset.
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From an earlier posting, it would seem that this due in court on Monday so speculation and counsel at this late stage seems rather pointless.
The mirror issue in the circumstances under examination is something of a red herring. The car mirror would establish the amount of clearance from the railings and any cyclist trying to sneak up past the nearside in that situation would be pretty stupid. Most cyclists would probably cut round the barriers on the grass.
It is human nature for us to feel that the balance of responsibility is with the other party but the consensus on here, a position with which I concur, is that you are on a hiding to nothing.
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Your defence seems to rely wholly upon some of your thoughts, suppositions, expectations, admissions, miscalculations and over cautiousness, I fear you are not going to come out of this whole sorry episode as the winner. Clear facts, happenings and measurements, coupled if possible with unbiased witnesses are case defences. You haven’t convinced anyone via trial by social media, so I doubt sadly that your actual court case will fare any easier. Best of luck.
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Yes, it is apparent that no one understands from my point of view, a lot of replies have been on the mirror, the mirrors are a legal requirement i get that, I explained why it wasnt on, mirrors are there to see down the side of the caravan, as mentioned it would not have made a difference as i was on a bend. My car mirror gave me a view of the front and edge of my caravan, that is the only reference I needed to pass the fence.
Many other replies that i should not have driven over to the other side of the road, I explained why i did and I am sure many others would do the same in that scenario in the belief the road of both carriageways were clear
Sorry but I just cant get my head around why all blame is pointing at me? and nothing has been mentioned about the member of staff who's job it is to get people onto the site safely.
I will leave it at that as my opinion and others wont change, we all see things from different perspectives and it was me who was driving the car.
Many thanks
Ian
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Can I just point out the man in the Hi Vis is there more for security of the site than to assume some drivers might struggle getting through one barrier. It could also be that he doesn't drive himself so wouldn't have any understanding of how to drive in or out the site without incident.
When I go in and out of club sites I've never seen the wardens directing anyone through and I've been to a few sites with much tighter access than the one in question.
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Sorry but I just cant get my head around why all blame is pointing at me? and nothing has been mentioned about the member of staff who's job it is to get people onto the site safely.
The blame is pointing at you for the simple reason that it was you in control of the outfit. I have little doubt that the judge will take the same view.
The security on the gate was probably not provided as a banksman. As the barrier started to descend a split second before you started to move there was no way that the guy in the yellow jacket could be aware that you had not taken notice. You seemed to swing over more on your approach to the barrier. An unfortunate accident that you are unlikely to repeat
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"Many other replies that i should not have driven over to the other side of the road, I explained why i did and I am sure many others would do the same in that scenario in the belief the road of both carriageways were clear|. quote from earlier post from goodchild
Does that mean on a 3 lane motorway you drive in the middle lane to give yourself plenty of room
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"I will leave it at that as my opinion and others wont change, we all see things from different perspectives and it was me who was driving the car."
Good thinking there, Ian, but remember it was you who asked for feedback. The large groundswell of opinion goes against your thoughts and that view has come from a vast variety of posters including very experienced towers, a highways engineer, insurance worker, those from the legal world, engineers, HGV driver and people applying good old common sense.
Good luck - you’ll likely need it.
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