Your thoughts on an incident
Comments
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Just an observation, may not help much but do you know the degree of separation between the ends of the barriers when both would have been in the down position? An inch, a foot, two feet? Or would either end of the barriers project into the other's carriageway? On the latter point, if not, the caravan must have been partly in the wrong carriageway which of course is a problem to the user in this particular traffic management system.
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This is the entry when down, the exit that hit me meets this in the middle
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Oh, dear. Looking at the wheels on the caravan level with the T of STOP it appears a significant part of the caravan would have been on the other side of the 'road'. Also, the barrier if positioned the same as the one in the photo would not have crossed the central line and not exactly met in the middle.
Unfortunately it is looking more like 'driver error'.
Have you any mitigating circumstances why no replacement mirror extension had been fitted. It is, unfortunately a legal requirement!
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Sorry I've watched the video several times , the car / caravan moved forward & crossed the central road marking by several inches thereby infringing on the exit barrier down position area .
If you check your own photo the entrance barrier limit when down is clearly in the centre of the marked white road line .
IMO a clear case of driver error .....sorry . 👍
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The barrier struck two inches into my caravan, I understand what you reference about the T marking, the wheels of my caravan where within or on the white line, I know this as my edge, side panel to speak, protrudes around 5 inches past the wheel face.
If it is so clean cut and dry a case, I am wondering why the defendants are doing their best to get it struck out of court and also why are they telling so many lies and contradicting themselves within their statements and evidence put forward. This I know you's dont have or know about.
To me if I had seen the barrier I would have stopped, I wasnt aware that the length of the boom would go directly to the middle of the carriageway let alone they were in operation as they didnt move the whole time I was there, you cannot simply know where it is going to end up when in the down position.
On a different note, the system was only in place for around 4 weeks, the week prior a lorry had collided with the inward barrier and the reason I found out why that one didnt move as it was taken out of service
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Mickysf, yes you are correct, new ones were purchased for my return journey.
The rubber snapped as I mentioned not to far from the site, I pulled over and took it off. It was a mirror that was held on by two rubber straps. i took the decision to take it off just incase it came off, maybe hit a car and caused an accident. I did have my drivers side one on. The mirror had no bearing within this incident as i could see my leading edge of the caravan as that is the only reference at the time of the incident I was interested in.
I have since bought the milenco clamp on mirrors.
I hope this answers the mirror question.
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Further upthread Goodchild, I believe you mention a counter claim by the site owners for barrier damage. I would be interested to know if they were claiming damages against you or your car insurance prior to you initiating a court case for damage to your van?
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If it is so clean cut and dry a case, I am wondering why the defendants are doing their best to get it struck out of court
Maybe because they do not wish to attend and defend it as there is no chance of getting all there costs back for time spent preparing their case. They may have engaged somebody in my previous line of work as a highway engineer to provide expert evidence. We have no idea what the total available lane width was and presumably you do.
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Hi Stevel,
At first I went to Bourne leisure for repairs to my caravan, they put it down to an accident and said they were not going to pursue me damage to the barrier.
I initiated a claim after this and with the information from the installation company who advised me they recommended for the safety devices and fob's to be utilised, which they have been put in place since. They then counterclaimed and within their counterclaim they are trying to bill me for the additional sensors and other items that were fitted after the incident. There is other things about the counterclaim i dont want to mention as I have found it is an open forum but the whole counterclaim is a farse and they tried to intimidate me from the start before I commenced proceedings, fortunately they have to stick to the invoice they sent me which forms their counterclaim amount. The document they sent was headed with quotation, this then returned back to me with invoice when I pointed it out to them.
Again i wish I had informed everyone from the start.
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Yes I agree it can go through on paper, i am not disputing that, the scenario I was in was different thats all I am saying. I was being cautious to my beliefs and surely one cant be wrong for that, in his own eyes.
Thanks on the measurements, i will convert them over
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Thats 18" either side clearance, Loads of room with correct positioning of your outfit on approach.
I'm sorry but the more you reveal the worse it gets to argue your case.
You keep saying mirrors don't come in to it but they do. If you had had a suitable extended mirror on the N/S you would have had a much greater angle of rear vision on that side and been able to keep to the left more.
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Hi Milothedog,
Thankyou for the comments.
If the barrier was down on the opposite side, It would go through as 18 inches is enough either side yes. The road ahead was clear, I can see my caravan from my car mirror, although a legal requirement is to have one on both sides. If the barrier was down and i thought it was tight i would have done something different and thats a different scenario.
I moved over for reasons, other than because i couldnt see so many metres beyond the rear of my caravan.
I understand what everyone is saying about the mirror, like someone mentioned previous 'stuff happens', it happened but it made no difference to me at the time as I had a great open space ahead of me.
If i had drove in the middle of the road then i would accept that it is all my fault, If you look at the cctv, you will see my car does not go over the white line, you can see the shadow which clarifies this.From the measurements my caravan wheels were on the white line, yes it overhung but you have to remember I was not aware of the descending barrier.
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Personally I do not think that on that slight right hand bend extended mirrors would have made a lot of difference. The position of the leading corner of the 'van would have given sufficient guidance. Lack of mirror extension should not have needed caravan to be 3 feet from the kerb.
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I initiated a claim after this and with the information from the installation company who advised me they recommended for the safety devices and fob's to be utilised, which they have been put in place since.
If these barrier items are a requirement under law you may have cause to celebrate. However, if they are a recommendation by the manufacturer then I don't see how that can help in your mitigation.
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Thanks EasyT,
Yes it works out at 3 feet from the fence, in the scheme of things and in the scenario I have stated its not as though I was 10 feet..
As you can see from the footage, i pull over and maintain a heading to the point I could see my caravan corner in reference to the fence, I knew I was clear and happy, so I straightened my outfit, please remember that out of shot of the cctv the road continues its bend and i was following the line to to eventually bring it back over to the left, that was my method of thoughts at the time, unfortunately it didnt work out like that.
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I take it that the video is one provided by the caravan site as a defense to your claim and to support their counterclaim and it seems to do so nicely. There original offer to repair the barrier at the company's own expense was a very reasonable one and you would have done well to accept.
You say that the company tried to get the case thrown out or was it merely seeking a reasonable delay to prepare their defense and counter claim I wonder?
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Each barrier system installed should have a risk assessment completed as it comes under the machines directive.
It was recommended to have the additional safety devices fitted but the site removed them from installation and low and behold they have been implemented, The site did not receive a risk assessment according to their statements, from the company involved - so they say
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No they filed certain forms to which the courts dont know why, they state i filled my defence to counterclaim late, I didnt and the courts have clarified that. Thay have tried to get it thrown out several times.
In their statements the barrier just needed to be put back on, I believe the booms have a snapping point to prevent damage to the housing and internals. Again they are billing me for devices and items that were put on after the incident and they acknowledge this in their statements
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Again they are billing me for devices and items that were put on after the incident and they acknowledge this in their statements
That seems daft on their part. It is a while since I was in court but I think I there was two weeks to submit a defense but the court was able to increase this and could allow more initially in any case. If there counterclaim includes items not fitted at the time it is unlikely to succeed ......... if that is the case and can be shown to be the case.
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Yes I can prove the counterclaim is incorrect and i dont know how the judge will take this. Hopefully he/she will then understand what I am going to say is the truth.
One comment made by the security manager was that, he sates he attended my pitch afterwards and said i was to blame, he didnt, he then went onto say he wanted me to repair the barrier, he didnt and the crown jewel is, he said he asked why i drove on the other side of the road, he states I replied that i previously had an accident and I didnt want another accident. I have never ever had an accident in my car or caravan in the whole time I have been driving.
The fella at the barriers came over to my window and stated, that should not have came down, also he is denying saying this. Its all lies
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My point was, if an extended mirror was in use the view would have been further behind than the existing mirror offered which would have allowed the OP to see if any cyclist were undertaking him and the confidence to get closer to the left.
Like most I have watched the video many times. I thing it could be argued that from the starting position the outfit is moving towards the center of the road leaving a bigger and bigger gap on the left until a point is reached when the caravan is cutting the corner . If he had kept the nose of the car closer to the left as he proceeded the slight curve in the road the caravan would not have been where it was, irrespective of what the barrier was doing.
On the bright side, the amount of times the video has been viewed will now attract adverts and earn the OP some money I would have thought.
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Hi Stevel,
At first I went to Bourne leisure for repairs to my caravan, they put it down to an accident and said they were not going to pursue me damage to the barrier.
A few years ago our caravan had an arguement with a buses mirror. My van was outside of the lane on a roundabout and as far as I was concerned the bus tried to go through a space that was not there. The bus company persued a claim. I had no witnesses, the caravan was not within my lane, so I did for me the sensible thing and let the car insurance company sort the damage to the bus, and took care of the van myself.
The two cases are not dissimilar, in that your van was out of its designated lane. Personally I would have accepted Bournes offer and thought myself lucky.
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Haha Milothedog, the revenue will come in handy to pay the courts hah
On a serious note the cctv angle doesnt play a good part for me. If anyone has been to the site they will know that the road is narrow and they will understand what i done considering, again I didnt see the barrier, the road ahead was clear.
I see it differently from the footage as i was in the car at the time.
Thanks again all, it gives me different angles to look at this in preparation for what they may put to me.
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