Your thoughts on an incident
Comments
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As I was there I never seen the barriers open or close, to me they were up and the road ahead was clear. He asked me to go ahead and gave no indication that the barriers were in operation,
My caravan was 2 feet from the fence on impact.
I am not sure your first point carries much weight. They are clearly barriers and as such there is the risk they can come down, unless you were told otherwise.
Clearly the site will be able to show what the gap to the fence was. To me, given how easy the security guy walks through, it is more than 2 feet.
If they didn't bother to fit sensors until after your problem, perhaps you could use this as a defence to argue for not paying the barrier damage. However, I think taking any of this to court I'll advised. As the chance of it finding in your favour remote.
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Thanks again.
I never even thought of the mirror and neither have the defendants solicitors. I just realised myself when it was highlighted on here.
The site is haggerston castle.
I wasn't advised that the barriers were in operation regardless if I could see them. The point I am trying to make is that they never moved the while time I was there, the road ahead was clear, the aframe if my car would block the movement of the barrier to my defense.
I have a lot of mixed bag opinions both on here and to people I speak to. A traffic police man looked at the footage and in his opinion he told me not to focus on the safety equipment at court as I can prove that they acted after the incident and had relevant safety devises fitted, he said neglagence was made on behalf of the attendant, he said it was his job to ensure people went safely through the barriers onto the site, he would have been trained with the barrier system, he could clearly see from his vantage point it was coming down, he looked at my caravan position and he could be clearly seen to know something wasn't correct and he had ample opportunity to tap on my window prior to impact and make me aware.
He went into state I had many things to consider as I was towing a caravan, he states if the road ahead was clear if other vehicles then I was within my right to take extra room which I did.
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I am reading and everyone is mentioning the mirror, the mirror wasn't the issue, I could see my caravan in my car mirror although not as well if I had the mirror on.
As I drive past the fence with my car it is only then I can see my caravan position in relation to the fenxe and I was happy that I was clear. To me the barriers are way to long for the purpose to control vehicles.
Anyways I have sent you a pic if you could kindly resize it for me.
Ian
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One thing I noticed in your reply was that you are saying the attendant was Negligent. I have no legal training but as a senior manager when at work I did study for and gain an occupational qualification for Health & Safety at Work, NEBOSH if you want to look it up. Part of it was studying and understanding parts of the law relevant to the qualification. Negligence is one such area and to prove it in court three things need to be proved. 1, There was a duty of care owed, 2, that duty of care was breached, and 3, the injury/damage was a direct result of that breach of duty of care. How are you going to prove that ?,
FiWI the extension mirror breaking is not an excuse, you should have replaced it before towing again.
I wish you all the best with it but think your on hiding to nothing personally
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that they never moved the while time I was there, [barriers that is]
In the video I have seen, the barrier moves before the car. To make it simple, it then had priority.
You are fortunate it occured where it did. There could have been 1200 tons of train going at 100mph on the other side of the barrier.
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And given there is not an Island in the middle with a post for the barrier to rest on when down, as soon as I saw it dropping I know what I would have instinctively done and it wouldn't have been play chicken
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I would have thought that any member of staff has a duty of care whenever a member of the punlic id in or on their premises. Look at a slip in a restsurant, the spillage is seen by a member of staff who does nothing, don't they have a duty of care towards customers and that they should clean it up to avoid the breach of the duty of care.
It is noted in their counterclaim that the attendant was trained within the barrier system and he was there to make sure visitirs entered safely. Does this not fall under the 3 rules? The last being damage to my caravan £860 worth which now has a dent in the side and scratches to the corner
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What you say about the scenario in the restaurant is quite correct, what you have to take into account though is how are you going to prove he knew the barrier was going to hit your van but decided to do nothing. How many caravans go in and out each day, some bigger than yours without issue. How many has it hit before...........
I'm not being awkward, but this is whats coming your way from their defense with the burden of proving it on you.
Another thing to note which I learnt was even if there is a duty of care any risk identified may be acceptable risk for various reason including Risk V's Cost to remove it or implement additional control measures.
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Yes I understand your trying to help guys and I appreciate the bombardment of thoughts as I know it is going to be like this in court.
As for making an error judgement, if I seen it or was advised it would be on my head as I would have made an error! Does one sit there for 5 minutes to see if they are in operation? I was advised to go on into the site with no indication of anything or warning. When the attendant comes to my car window he states ' that should have not come down' that I can only pressume as it should not have came down. His words.
As for neglagence, yes it is hard to prove but was neglegant in not warning me when he see's the barrier come down and more so when he tells me to drive on. Remember I know nothing of these barriers.
Could neglegance be on behalf of the company for not fitting safety devices which have been put in place since the incident. If there wasn't a problem with the operation of the barriers why install devices I have been told by the installation company they recommended to be installed through their risk assessment.
Thanks for the conversations. Gives me different angles to look at this prior to court
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I think I speak for many on here, would you please post the outcome of the case when its judged. Good luck with it.
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As for making an error judgement, if I seen it or was advised it would be on my head as I would have made an error! Does one sit there for 5 minutes to see if they are in operation?
I don't sit for 5 mins but I do assume that they are in operation unless advised otherwise.
The fact that your rubber strap on extension mirror failed is irrelevant I examined mine last year and replaced and I carry a spare mirror in the caravan
You were unfortunate but I see it as your fault. We will see what outcome is
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Goodchild.
I understand your predicament, you have damage to your caravan and a barrier has also been damaged. In your view the blame lies elsewhere and you expect the damage to your caravan to be put right and paid for by others. No doubt a lot of people (including people who have posted on this thread), would think the same if it was their caravan. However you have asked for peoples opinion on what happened based on the video you have posted. People, including myself, have given you their opinion but you continue to try and defend your actions. If you feel so strongly then continue with the court action and I wish you good luck, but based on the posts here please don’t expect a favourable outcome.
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Looking at the attendant when you passed through the barrier he was clearly watching your car to make sure you got through OK and not the van, the barrier was coming down as you approached. see pic 1. Your car was over the line as you were level with the T.
You had clearly passed the attendant when your van went through the barrier so how could he warn you if you were not paying attention as you did not see the barrier see pic 2.
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Sorry if I am coming across argumentative! I don't mean to. I am just trying to put aside across to opinions as that's what I came on here for.
Thankyou for the pics, yes when you look at the CCTV it is easy to pick faults from the perspective of viewing, although when your in the vehicle low down, many things to consideralong with checking my mirrors, more importantly I was checking my near side for a distance between the fence and my caravan. Again I didn't see it. It is easy to see in CCTV
Thanks guys
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Nobody likes to see a leisure vehicle getting damaged. You have my great sympathy.
You have given us a little bit more information now than your OP, in respect of the conversation you had with the attendant, but in court I expect that he (the site) will say that they expected you (your entire outfit) to stay on your own side of the road, if you drive in such a way, for whatever well intentioned reason, that your outfit crosses the centre of the road, you bear a great responsibility for a subsequent collision.
And your defence that your vision was obstructed by part of your own car (the A pillar) is not normally accepted as a defence, it is your job as driver to only proceed when you know the way to be clear. If you were driving forward then it's your duty ( who else's could it be?) to know the way is clear.
I feel you have been let down by the attendant who appears to have a role marshalling & directing traffic but at the point it becomes pretty obvious you are going to collide with the barrier he fails to react in any way. But as the driver you will have to accept a good proportion of the blame.
In your case I would have chalked it down to experience and tried to get away with repairing my van quietly myself and avoided telling my insurance companies for the next five years I'd had a bump....
I wish you the best of luck, you are going to need it, but please come back and tell us the outcome.....
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My window was open throughout. I heard him say stop as it struck my caravan.if you look at the CCTV slightly prior to your pics you can see the attendant look at the barrier and then look at my caravan position, I was at that moment moving slightly over. If you look at his facial expressions you will he knew something was not right and decided not to do anything.
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Presumably you will rely on the CCTV in court so will the judge see the same as us?
The road is not narrow as can be seen from the shot below showing the car coming the other way and the amount of room there was.
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You were parked reasonably at the beginning of the film but then on driving away you moved more and more to the crown of the road, at that point the caravan must have been over the line judging by the >1 metre nearside gap.
Half barriers with individual lane control, not common but also not unusual, I think you missed a few observational pointers that should have made you approach the barrier differently.
Best of luck in your quest
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If you look at his facial expressions
You've mentioned that several times now and I've watched the video several times.
There is no facial expression that I can see. I think you are "willing" there to be evidence that supports you that simply isn't there.....
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Thankyou kindly. I take the part from your comments as very good info. Like the part where you mention as I driver I should only proceed when it is clear ahead. To me it was so I went ahead after directions from him.
It's unfortunate that the barrier starts it's descent as I head off.
Ian
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Yep, I've watched it again, I'm obviously not seeing what you see.
I've made mistakes in life, with jobs, girls, driving etc, none of us are perfect and I'm certainly not...
But I think you are just looking to blame someone else for a mistake that is a large part yours....
But I don't want to fall out.........very good luck, let us know how you get on.
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