Delamination and split GRP Panel on a 2 year Swift
Thinking of buying a brand new Swift caravan? Think again.
My husband and I own a Swift Challenger 580 - purchased brand new in August 2016. The first service in August 2017 identified a split rear GRP Panel which was repaired by an approved repairer under warranty.
We hoped this was just bad luck but on the 2nd service recently the dealer identified that the floor was delaminated! The van would have to be returned to Swift.
Bearing in mind that this van is two years old, cost £20k and has been used for just 20 nights and is in A1 immaculate condition, imagine the disappointment that I have now been informed by Swift that it will have to go back to the factory for a full replacement floor and a replacement rear panel. The waiting list is until Feb next year and they will have the van for 6 - 8 weeks.
Everything removable has to be taken out of the van including gas bottles, mattress, furnishings and carpets.
Are we just unlucky? Or has anyone else had experience of two major faults with a Swift Challenger?
We have sought legal advice and it appears that because the van is 2 years old we don't have a case to sue either the dealer or manufacturer even though the van is not fit for purpose.
Swift and our dealer have admitted that there are issues with GRP Panels cracking and that it's not unusual to have a delaminated floor. And when we visited the dealer to collect the van after it's service parked right next to our van was another 2016 Swift waiting collection from Swift as it too had a delaminated floor.
Surely this can't be right and the industry should be made to pull their socks up - our local dealer won't even offer us a loan van whilst ours is being repaired (even though they have a fleet of 50) because they don't want to set a precedence!
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Seems like things have gone downhill at Swift.
We had three Challengers, a 480, and then two 530's, all from new, and each one kept for three years. The last one was in 2008, after which we gave up caravanning.
Unlike the Baileys we had before them, no problems.
Hope your issue reaches a satisfactory conclusion.
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When you say legal advice, Pootle, do you mean a fully qualified solicitor experienced in consumer rights issues?
I ask because I have heard of judgement being awarded against a supplying dealer (and it is the dealer who is answerable as he sold it to you) in respect of an older van because it should be reasonably expected to last longer than the length of time yours has. I’m no expert mind but the phrase "of merchantable quality" springs to mind.
I hope you achieve a good outcome.
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Tinwheeler - I spoke to the legal line at Caravan and Motorhome Club and whilst she was very helpful she said that under the Goods Act 2015 I have to give Swift the opportunity to repair the fault and unfortunately it's each new fault so I could end up going back and forward like a yo-yo.
I have also spoken to a solicitor (although not a consumer right specialist) who said much the same but perhaps I should find one with consumer experience. Thanks for the advice.
Unfortunately much like Dave L S this has all left a nasty taste and I will sell the caravan once fixed and never go back to it. I just wish I had kept my Challenger 480 (2007) which had no issues at all.
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You do need to give them a chance to rectify a fault if you're outside of the 30 days from purchase deadline, Pootle, but I understood it was just one chance. However, as I said, I’m no expert.
Incidentally, it’s not Swift you have to give the chance to correct the fault but the dealer. Your contract is with the dealer and what transpires between dealer and manufacturer is of no matter to you. Your dealer should, perhaps, be leant on a bit harder to provide a loan van as this whole issue is his to resolve and his responsibility.
One other avenue you might be able to explore is the liability of any finance company involved. This isn’t just for personal finance loans but applies if you used a credit card for part of the payment - over £100, I think.
CAB might be another avenue worth exploring as might joining the Swift Talk forum.
Good luck.
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That’s a very sorry tale, so I’m not surprised that you won’t be staying with Swift. Though we have one, the third in a row, without major problems like yours. I’d be very disappointed indeed to have to wait until February for repairs to commence, but a further six to eight weeks to complete the repair is insulting and utterly unacceptable. As others have said, your dealer needs to take proper ownership of the inconvenience which this is causing you by providing a loan caravan of similar value, until your own is returned fully repaired.
Regretably, a percentage of pretty well any make of caravan, will suffer major faults. In the 1990s we had a Lunar with damp and a delaminated floor, which we successfully repaired ourselves.
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jenny, 6/8 weeks for repair is about right as have to remove all the van, replace floor then rebuild van so I would say quicker to build a new van than do a repair. all manufacturers would take this long. It takes Lunar 3 months to supply parts to repair a van. If we keep buying new vans, then the manufacturers will keep throwing them out with substandard built quality. It's a shame that all the clubs don't do more to protest to the manufacturers about build quality and stop doing reviews of caravans.
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We have had two swifts in the past (a challenger and ta conquerer) both had delamination of the floor and the last one also had severe damp in the front,and also had to have the awning rail replaced, all luckily under warranty,when we came out of the "darkside"we have had one Elddis (absolute nightmare)but are now on our second Bailey and so far have been more than satisfied with both plus good backup from our dealer
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Where did the legal advice come from. The sale will be covered by The Consumer Protection Act and your rights are against the dealer with whom you have a contract. This requires the defects to be repaired within a reasonable time and to me next February for the start is not reasonable.
Under the act there seems to be ample scope to sue for the loss of use while the repair is being carried out because of this unreasonable delay. I would write a recorded delivery letter to the dealer saying that if they adhere to that timetable they are in breach of the terms of the act and you will be suing for damages if no are agreed without litigation.
Have you tried the clubs Legal Helpline as they are very familiar with this type of problem, probably more so than the average solicitor.
If you paid any part of the purchase price by credit card or used HP the company or companies involved also have equal liability to the dealer and you should contact them wit a view to a claim.
Do not be fobbed off.
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See Pootle's post of 28/9 19:12, WW, and my response.
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having spent some time in quite a few vans last week, caravans and MHs, it's no surprise that many fall apart almost straight away.
'walls' that flex and bend, doors, drawers that either won't open or shut due to poor alignment, cupboards that look like they would come apart if anything of any substance was placed in them, bathroom fixings that are Poundland standard....
seatboxes that I wouldn't feel safe sitting on (and I weigh only 60kg), 'pull together' bed mechanisms that only 'pull apart'....microwaves that are secured by a few small self tappers (an accident waiting to happen)...
...and so it goes on....
chipboard/cardboard making up tne greater part of the internal 'construction'.....all nicely covered up with the latest upholstery, taking the untrained eye away from what is (or isn't) lurking underneath...
...and the reason for all this....attempts at weight reduction...
everyone wants their new van loaded with goodies but makers can't let the vans just get heavier as this restricts tow car choice (caravans) and affects owner license restrictions (MH)..
so we get flimsy, destined to break construction.....and reliance on dreadful, painfully slow warranty back up...
Colin Chapman (Lotus cars) always said 'lightness had to designed in' and presumably not just taken out.....
however the maxim 'less is more' stays true as prices continue to soar.
as far as I could see, it makes little difference whether you pay £15k or £25k for your caravan....just the size and the number of gadgets accounting for the price difference....oh, and the latest upholstery.
shoddy and (ought to be) shocking, but I've seen it in so many vans for so long now...
it looks like premium MHs are still pretty good, more fat in that hefty price tag no doubt to stick with decent build, and often weight isn't an issue on larger vans, over 3.5t.
however, many cheaper 3.5t MHs are also subject to the latest weight saving measures as more kit finds it way into the lower priced models, with larger, 4/6 berth 3.5t vans being subject to the most weight cutting as it's virtually impossible to run a family van at this weight.
be careful out there...
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We too have a delaminated floor in a 2016 Conqueror 565 identified with dealership in July 2018. Ours goes back to factory in January for 6 weeks or so. They haven't said whether are replacing the whole floor or pressure injecting "stuff" from below. We plan to collect the van from them and will be able to find out what has been done.
We also had a couple of hairline cracks in the front panel right down by the A frame, repaired 12 months ago, and as yet not resurfaced.
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we had same problem with our two year old lunar delta 2016 needed a new floor after two years the dealer was great he let us trade it in for new bailey pamplona and he will deal with the lunar we had new van within two weeks of the dealer being made aware of the floor shame all dealers are not of the same high standard
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At the October show at the NEC, I asked the Swift build manager why he thought I should purchase a new Swift after I had explained the many issued I have had with my van.
You will all be pleased to know that it is now safe to buy a new one because all the issued they have had in the recent past have all been fixed including delimitation and cracking panels.
I assume his name must have been Pinochio
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took 6 months to repair my Lunar delta with damp floor, 3 months waiting for spares and 3 months waiting for an approved repairer to have a slot for do the repair. this was 12 months ago and now damp in top corner of bedroom so probably be May 2019 before sorted. Getting rid as soon as repaired.
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hope it gets sorted lornalou hope when you get rid you get a fair price i would recomend you try a dealer called winchester caravans as i said they was the best we have ever delt with and we have tried a few as we change our van every two to three years
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We bought a used (little) Swift Challenger 514 in 2016, because we preferred the interior colour compared with the new 2016 models.
It proved to be a mistake as I found in the documents folder a receipt detailing warranty work carried out in 2014 for water ingress and repair to a delaminated floor.I was concerned to learn this so I contacted the previous owner who confirmed it had been repaired to their satisfaction.
Since then we have had to have a new axle which the selling dealer made a contribution but still cost £800, the water leak has returned on the OSF repaired under warranty previously by the first selling dealer and not covered by warranty, cost £500.
I think the caravan industry needs to get its act together and start building a quality product which owners can be proud of, and it applies to all not just Swift.
Its unfortunate the Dealers have to put up with such poor design and build quality, it has been mentioned in these posts on this thread that it is the supplying Dealers responsibility to fix these faults but surely they must be totally fed up with numerous customer complaints and although they are paid for warranty work it does nothing to improve customer satisfaction.
Although looking at the latest models they have eliminated most of the design niggles and improved items such as drawers and doors that open when towing and added nice little extra features, so far there does not appear any overall improvement in build quality.
I would now be reluctant to buy a new van, we paid almost as much for our present used van as a new one and its been very disappointing, another newer used van is also not a sensible option as the warranty is limited on used vans.
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As yet I've never had a delaminated floor, but it must be common as I remember a caravan dealer jumping up and down on my trade in, I asked what he was doing and he said checking for delamination.
We both weight less than 140 pounds, perhaps that has some bearing?
I've had a Unicorn with a damp floor even after 3 repairs, and one of those at the factory where Bailey managed to put two dents in a side panel, the inner partition had come away from the wall, it then got damaged while being unloaded at the dealers, resulting in two new rear legs, and bumper, the dents were filled in and resprayed.
Before the Unicorn I had a Senator for 7 years which was damp free, but the common front ABS panel cracks appeared on the front panels, so we traded in before damp started.
We have now moved back to Swift having had one before that was dry after 5 years until downsized at the time.
Our present one is a 2017 Conqueror, last of the woodless HT models, and are very happy with it, in fact compared to out last Bailey with 40 faults it brilliant. The only negative is the interior furniture needed lots of adjustment to align doors etc.
The small Sheffield Caravan's Sprite dealer is in a different league to the large Bailey Chesterfield one we had which was completely useless IME.
What I've taken a long time to say is I've read lots of reports about Swift factory repairs and have yet to read of one negative.
The caravans come back better than new, with lots of things done alongside the original warranty work. So while its enough to deter anyone from ever buying a swift again, a new floor and panel change, plus loss of use along with stress.
I would give Swift a chance to repair before looking to reject or replace.
PS I also had a rear panel replaced on a 1997 Avondale, and the caravan came back as good as new, and remained dry during the 7 years I kept it.
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