Shouting Chairman and Shutup Graham

StuartO
StuartO Forum Participant Posts: 45
edited December 2018 in UK Campsites & Touring #1

It was nice crisp winter weather at Burrs Country Park Club Site, which is nicely laid out in an attractive combination of green countryside and tastefully recycled industrial landscape, all very pleasing to the eye, even before the steam trains of the East Lancashire Railway also came chuffing past over the weekend – and the staff had been very welcoming, so we were enjoying ourselves.  We used our motorhome to do some shopping (at Boundary Mill) and meet up with relatives in Lancashire whom we see only occasionally now that we’ve emigrated to East Anglia in our retirement.

On the Friday evening we were joined by a couple of friends who are caravanners.  It was dark by the time they could get to Burrs and they’d had a challenging transit through the centre of Bury.  They overshot the only pitch near us which was still vacant, so they were having to go round again and my friend was probably a bit fed up by then.  No excuse of course, there is a 5mph speed limit advertised by plenty of signs and there are sleeping policemen every 100 yards or so to remind you to keep your speed down, even if you are impatient because you’re having to drive right round the Site again.  He was probably doing closer to 10 mph than 5 when a caravanner who was pitching up shouted at him as he passed and told him in no uncertain terms to slow down.  Because of the sleeping policemen he couldn’t have been doing more than 10 mph without wrecking his suspension.  A few minutes later (much less than 5 minutes) when I was still helping him to pitch up the Warden turned up and told my friend there had been four complaints and would he please slow down a bit.  The Warden got his message across clearly but did so politely and there was no argy bargy; my friend acknowledged his mistake and took the hint.  The Warden handled the situation impeccably.

It was however remarkable, from my viewpoint, that there had apparently been four complaints which were delivered promptly enough to get the Warden coming round to us as quickly as he did.  The following day, as we drove past the spot where my friend had been shouted at, the caravan owned by the shouter was carrying badges advertising him to be the Chairman of the South Lancashire CC (or DA), which was holding a Rally at Burrs that weekend.  The Chairman had arrived late, as had my friend on the Friday night, and he had been pitching up in what we could now see was a plum spot, presumably reserved for him, next to the caravan labelled as the “Rally Office”.  It was pretty unlikely that there had been four completely separate complaints directly to the Warden about my friend speeding, there just hadn’t been the time.  It was much more likely that the Chairman or Rally Officer had been gathering support and chucking some weight about.   Hey ho, at least the Warden had handled it well, without shouting at all.

My own unhappy encounter with a complainer from the South Lancs DA happened early on Saturday evening, when I took our two Dalmatians to the Dog Area.  It was dark and they were on their leads but once inside the Dog Area I let them off to do their thing.  For those who don’t know the difference (which I didn’t until I’d read a notice that morning in the Toilet Block) a Dog Area is somewhere you are supposed to be able to let your dog off the lead, whereas in a Dog Walk you are merely allowed to extend the lead beyond the 2 metres limit for the Site in general.  (Rules in the Caravan and Motorhome Club are nothing if not specific.)

The Dog Area was not illuminated so it took me a while to check with my torch that the dogs hadn’t deposited any solids but as I turned to get them back on the leads it was clear that one of them was missing.  I expected the Dog Area to be completely enclosed and as you entered it certainly looked to be secure.  It turned out however there was a small gap around the back of the hedge at one end of the Area and our younger dog had found it.  I secured the remaining dog, the sensible nine year old, and set off in search of the more adventurous and inquisitive one year old.  No sign of her in the near vicinity but then I heard barking and saw the beam of one of these mega-million candle power lamps shining around.  I strode off in pursuit and got glimpses of my younger dog, barking and dodging around, puzzled and perhaps alarmed by this enormous floodlight beam.  A voice came from behind the beam pointing out that dogs were supposed to be on leads, that was the Rule and this was a Club Site.  I explained straight away that the dog had escaped from the Dog Area and I was trying to get her back on the lead but this had no impact at all; the voice just kept repeating that dogs should be on leads and that he would be complaining about me for allowing this to happen.  Rules, in his eyes, were clearly rules and no excuses were allowable; he certainly wasn’t willing to be in any way helpful and just kept shining his blooming great searchlight.  The loose dog kept dashing around in confusion and alarm, ignoring my call to Come and disturbing the Site with her barking.

Fortunately a lady suddenly appeared and was immediately very helpful, trying, as I was, to calm the dog and get her back under control.  This still took us a couple of minutes, during which the man, whom she referred to a couple of times as “Shutup Graham” continued repeating his view about the Rules.  Eventually he got the message, switched his searchlight off and, after a final declaration of his intent to complain, disappeared.  The lady and I then got the panicky dog back on the lead without too much difficulty.  Shutup Graham’s behaviour and attitude had be so officious and unhelpful that I was more than a little irritated by this time and it had occurred to me, because we were close to the Shouting Chairman’s Caravan, that this was another example South Lancs DA in action.  I explained again to the lady about the escape from what should presumably have been a secure Dog Area and asked if they were part of the Rally group.  Yes, she said, and I commented that sharing the Site with them wasn’t much fun and they seemed to think they owned the place.

The lady then explained she had a role as a volunteer helper of some sort with CAMC; she had clearly got my message and we parted friends.  I live in hope that the lady was going to mention in the right quarters that the DA was creating a poor impression and furthermore that Shutup Graham was likely to get his horoscope read when she went back in.  She had mentioned they were dog owners too, so there can really be no excuse for the man’s officious and unhelpful behaviour with that great big searchlight.  Fortunately we were pitched on the other side of the Site and that was as far as our contact with South Lancs DA was concerned for the weekend.  My friend and I were careful to drive at 5mph around the Site, even though we had someone on our tail who raced around a loop to get past us.

My friend had of course been speeding and the Chairman was perfectly entitled to complain to the Warden, even if he was himself in the process of breaking the Club Rule about reserving pitches as he was doing so.  Whether he, or anyone else on a Club Site, is entitled to shout at people to express disapproval or to remind them of the rules is perhaps another matter.  Likewise Shutup Graham is perfectly entitled to complain to the Warden as he threatened if he wants to but I suggest he should think again about his behaviour towards another camper who was in difficulties at the time, especially as a fellow dog owner.  Why couldn’t he listen to what was being said and then try to be helpful rather than persist in delivering his lecture about the Rules, threatening to complain and shining his great big searchlight at the loose dog.  Couldn’t he see that the big searchlight was aggravating the situation?

My impression of South Lancs DA last weekend was not very good.  I’m sure that there are plenty of friendly and helpful people in that DA but the impression which the Shouting Chairman and Shutup Graham projected was that the DA are a bunch of self-important, self-righteous traffic wardens.  Is that the impression which the DA wants to leave among other users of a Club Site when they share one for a DA Rally?  Their conduct was hardly likely to encourage anyone to join their DA, or to encourage non-Members using the Site to join the Club. 

CAMC may be trying to move on from the days of the stereotypical Caravan Club Member who likes nothing better than quoting the Club Rules at other people but the traffic warden spirit still seems to live on in South Lancashire DA.  On a campsite in France a couple of years ago we discovered after pitching up that there were a large group of Travellers on the site who has established their territory in a big way; it was quite alarming.  But they left us alone and vice versa and I can honestly say that I felt better about them as people to share a campsite with when we left than I felt about South Lancs DA as we left Burrs.

When a camper occupies a pitch on a CAMC Club Site, whether doing so as a Member or otherwise,  whether as part of a rally group or as an individual, he or she is subject to the Site Rules the same as everyone else – and no one, be he Rally Officer or Chairman of a DA or even Chairman of CAMC itself, has any authority to police the campsite.  The only person with any authority of any kind on a Club Site is the Warden and the only proper avenue of intervention available to any camper is to approach the Warden about any problems they encounter.   Camping is supposed to be a friendly activity and shouting at other people on Site or telling other people off in any way is discourteous and plain wrong.   If any group of people wanting to hold a rally on a Club Site can’t accept that, they don’t deserve to be allowed to hold their rallies on Club Sites.  If the Chairman of a Club District Association cannot see that shouting at other campers to express his opinion about their behaviour damages his DA’s reputation as well as his own, he really isn't suited to lead the DA.

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Comments

  • Randomcamper
    Randomcamper Club Member Posts: 1,062 ✭✭
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    edited November 2018 #2

    Blimey, this is a long story....

     

    It's lucky something serious didn't happen.....

  • EmilysDad
    EmilysDad Forum Participant Posts: 8,973
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    edited November 2018 #3

    A very long post .... 

    My response to Shut-up Graham wouldve been on the lines of Foxtrot Oscar. Re walking your dogs ... would it not have been easier to use the 'Show ground' field just next door? 

    I've not been down to the country park for a few weeks   https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/club-together/discussions/the-social-room/your-pets/million-dollar-molly/

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,149 ✭✭✭
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    edited November 2018 #4

    It might have for all I know. 😂

  • Unknown
    Unknown Forum Participant
    edited November 2018 #5
    The user and all related content has been Deleted User
  • mickysf
    mickysf Forum Participant Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭
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    edited November 2018 #6

    What might have been the most pleasant of requests can soon become completely the opposite when it suits the 'plot'. wink 

    Too many folk speed on site despite knowing the rule we all signed up to, what else to do?

  • KenofKent
    KenofKent Forum Participant Posts: 209
    100 Comments
    edited November 2018 #7

    Yes, with speeding outfit and dog out of control you never know what might happen. Luckily management and members brought situation under control. Or have I misunderstood something?

    Ken

  • flatcoat
    flatcoat Forum Participant Posts: 1,571
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    edited November 2018 #8

    Is this REALLY all members have to worry about in their lifes?! Give me strength..... 

  • StuartO
    StuartO Forum Participant Posts: 45
    edited November 2018 #9

    I didn't jump to any conclusions about him being a nasty piece of work and I don't suppose he is - but I wanted him to have the opportunity to see himself as others see him when he was struting his stuff and shouting the odds, that's all.

  • eurortraveller
    eurortraveller Club Member Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭
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    edited November 2018 #10

    Since I gave up Club sites I miss all the fun. 

  • StuartO
    StuartO Forum Participant Posts: 45
    edited November 2018 #11

    I think you may have missed the point, that a Club DA holding a rally on a Club Site can think they own the place and chuck their weight about in a way that makes them look like a bunch of arrogant traffic wardens.

  • StuartO
    StuartO Forum Participant Posts: 45
    edited November 2018 #12

    We had used the Country Park to walk the dogs but this was just a quick outing to let them have a pee or poo and the Dog Area is handier and better, because it's more enclosed - or supposed to be.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited November 2018 #13

    One thing that does stand out is that the members on the rally,were doing what numerous others who have posted reviews on here, "complain about" speeding/loose dogs but do nothing then put in a negative site review undecided

  • Kennine
    Kennine Forum Participant Posts: 3,472
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    edited November 2018 #14

    All goes to prove that CMC campsites should never be used by Rally centres for rallies when normal campers are using the site. ------  If they want to rally, They should  go to a proper rallyfield,  there are hundreds of those around the UK. 

    surprised

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited November 2018 #15

    Why?????,

  • StuartO
    StuartO Forum Participant Posts: 45
    edited November 2018 #16

    With respect I think you have grabbed the wrong end of the stick.  No one has criticised the Site (indeed I praised both Site and Warden) and as far as I know "Shutup Graham" didn't complain about me having the dog off the lead, although of course he threatened to.  The Shouting Chairman did complain to the Warden (or got his Rally Officer to do so) and the Warden did have a word with the offending driver - who apologised for his error.  Perhaps you'd like to re-read the post and hoist in the point I was making, that a bunch of traffic wardens acting as if they own the Site can give a very bad impressions of themselves to other site users.

  • Metheven
    Metheven Club Member Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭
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    edited November 2018 #17

    Condensing the story to just one word .... 'ralliers', would have been enough for me. I have been amongst them once in my early days, never again. It's another bit of extra homework I have to do if booking a site.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited November 2018 #18

    I do hope that some one from the rally will post the other side of what happened then

  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited November 2018 #19

    Put out a warrant for their arrest DD👍🏻😂😂

  • mickysf
    mickysf Forum Participant Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭
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    edited November 2018 #20

    I get the point, dogs loose and speeding members are not to be encouraged and when this occurs some consider it should only ever be addressed by site staff.  

    But I also don't think that the use of ridicule and sarcasm in social posting where individuals can be identified is particularly helpful either. Why share such concerns beyond the immediate folk concerned? For effect, reprisal? It only makes all luck silly and we all know that we will only ever hear one side of the story. What does that suggest?

     

  • EmilysDad
    EmilysDad Forum Participant Posts: 8,973
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    edited November 2018 #21

    My point wasn't a criticism 😊 I only noticed the dog walk area recently ... I was on the field next door walking Molly ...

  • StuartO
    StuartO Forum Participant Posts: 45
    edited November 2018 #22

    You could save your strength by not bothering to respond to posts which you don't think are worthwhile, instead of dishing out gratuitously offensive remarks.

  • StuartO
    StuartO Forum Participant Posts: 45
    edited November 2018 #23

    My motives were simply to get the message across to South Lancs Centre (I got it wrong by calling them a DA, that's C&CC) in the easiest way but I suppose it could all be read as an attempt to name and shame.  But I haven't given proper names.  You are entitled to your opinion about Club Together being a purely social medium but I think it's also valid to raise concerns about behaviour on Club Sites, especially if groups of Members are causing difficulties and to identify the group concerned.

  • Shuttleworths
    Shuttleworths Forum Participant Posts: 69
    edited November 2018 #25

    As ever, the voice of reason!laughing

  • mickysf
    mickysf Forum Participant Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭
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    edited November 2018 #26

    I agree but there are far more agreeable ways of doing it without using ridicule and sarcasm particularly as individuals can be identified. Long gone are those bad days of CT the CT community has done a good job at keeping such posts and posters at bay, long may this continue. However, as you say ,it was right to raise issues such as speeding and loose dogs. 

  • moulesy
    moulesy Forum Participant Posts: 9,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited November 2018 #27

    I'd have thought that a letter/email to the centre and to club HQ with a clear indication that each was receiving a copy would have been a more subtle way of dealing with this situation. Not trying to take one side or the other (how could anyone who wasn't there at the time) but letting off steam in the manner of the OP rarely turns out well from what I've seen on here. 

  • Serious Rallier
    Serious Rallier Forum Participant Posts: 3
    edited November 2018 #28

    This verbal diarrhea could have been condensed to two paragraphs speeding and dogs. Regarding speeding there has already been a fatality on a club site perhaps you would like to address your complaints to the child's parents. Loose dogs ..there have been several occasions  were loose dogs have attacked children and other animals and on every occasion the owner say it's never done it  before Accept responsibility a stop blaming others..

  • StuartO
    StuartO Forum Participant Posts: 45
    edited November 2018 #29

    Including perhaps someone who makes sweeping adverse criticism of others without reading the post properly?  The dog escaped because there was a gap around the back of a hedge in what was supposed to be a secure Dog Walk. I mentioned this to the Warden (as I was thanking him for handling the speeding issue so well) and it turned out that he knew about it; I suggested he block it with a bit of extra fencing.

  • Takethedogalong
    Takethedogalong Forum Participant Posts: 17,064 ✭✭✭
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    edited November 2018 #30

    Your own post states that you expected it was secure, expectations can be deceiving, aren’t always correct, so a wise move to be certain before letting dogs off in the dark? Could have been onto a road, and that would indeed have been a very sad state of affairs. 

    (Paragraph five, line three by the way) It wasn’t a sweeping criticism, it was prompted by your own admission.

    I’m sorry things upset you, and hope you have a better visit to Burrs next time.

  • Unknown
    Unknown Forum Participant
    edited November 2018 #31
    The user and all related content has been Deleted User