Overnight campers' action

Rufs
Rufs Club Member Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
1000 Comments
edited November 2018 in Caravan & Motorhome Chat #1

i quote from our local Conservative news letter, just received

"Motorhome overnighting along the Meon Shore road has increased significantly during this summer. Action is in hand to make the signage clearer and Hill Head Councillors will discuss with officers the best way to prevent a recurrence next summer"

so far from encouraging MH camping in local car parks as a number of members have been advocating, to fall in line with our collegues in Europe, my local council along with others in this area "Hampshire" are actively discouraging. Nothing against MH owners but I support this action, on the grounds that the area is fast becoming an unofficial MH park, and of course there are always the few that go the extra mile and abuse what are unofficial camping facilities, e.g. emptying toilet cassettes in the public toilets, cramming all their garbage into local waste bins, taking up all the car park bays, and using them as their own personal camping area, sometimes 2 bays. Being a caravaner I have never used an Aires, do the facilities that are provided officially within Europe get abused in the same way?, I know the adage "the few spoil it for the many", but we are being overrun by the many, probably because a lot of our sea front parking is free, something as locals, we cherish and would not want to loose as a result of overnight campers etc. Is there something amiss with us Brits or are our EU counterparts just as bad ? 

I should add as a footnote, although our local council are not massively in debt there are certainly no funds in the kitty to provide Aires type facilities, well not in the present climate, and even if they were, I am not sure local people would support such expenditure, ok the local ice cream shops may make a little bit extra, but i think most of the additional spend would go to the out of town super markets and not local shops. I do believe MH's are becoming a problem.

«13456715

Comments

  • peedee
    peedee Club Member Posts: 9,387 ✭✭✭
    2,500 Likes 1000 Comments Name Dropper
    edited November 2018 #2

    I strongly urge you to support your local council. When all is clear and bans are in place  I will avoid the place like the plague and continue to favour spending my money over the water where we are always made very welcome.

    I have nothing against councils banning on street parking for motorhomes as long as they provide proper parking places elsewhere within walking distance of facilities and attractions. Fortunately there are some enlightened councils in the UK and all is not yet lost.

    peedee

  • dmiller555
    dmiller555 Forum Participant Posts: 717
    500 Comments
    edited November 2018 #3

    Perhaps suitable facilities could be provided together with a reasonable overnight charge to help towards the cost.

     

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,142 ✭✭✭
    10,000 Likes 1000 Comments Name Dropper
    edited November 2018 #4

    I’m sorry MHs are becoming a problem in your eyes, Rufs, but please don’t tar us all with the same brush. I think you mean SOME motorhomers are causing problems. 

    The situation in Exmouth could act as a template here. The parking of MHs overnight on the seafront has been banned but the council has provided dome dedicated long term spaces in a few car parks.

  • young thomas
    young thomas Forum Participant Posts: 11,356
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #5

    for those with 'green' chemical toilets (no fomaldehyde) you can empty safely into any toilet....we now only use bio washing pods...

    ive actually seen car owners, stopped in laybys, 'stuffing their rubbish into bins'.....disgraceful, I know.....but surely better than leaving it all over the floor?

    i would agree that roadside bins (pretty well everywhere) are not emptied anywhere nearly frequently enough to make them worthwhile, although we take our rubbish with us if there isn't sufficient bin space.

    ...and surprise, surprise, many local councils ask MH owners to pay for two spaces if they use them...

    other than 'against the regs' overnighting, what gives a car owner more right to a parking space on any seafront when both have paid road tax...one probably more than the other?

    hmm, you believe MHs are becoming a problem.....?

    nice.

    as above, if overnighting isn't allowed and MHs are doing it....book them, simple. no issue at all...

    but if it's legal, surely that's fine too?

    so why aren't cars parking on seafronts 'becoming a problem'?

    i agree with Peedee that, if on street parking is banning MHs (though I see this as victimisation, unless it's overnighting that's banned) then the provision of a few MH spaces at the rear of local car parks costs next to nothing, as Exmouth has done and alluded to in TW's post above.

    however, I much prefer the Continental approach where everyone, irrespective of vehicle type, is welcomed into every town and village, usually with dedicated MH parking but always with (usually free) shared parking.

    so, if towns don't want us, I just go elsewhere...

    if the UK doesn't want us, no problem either.

     

  • MichaelT
    MichaelT Forum Participant Posts: 1,874
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #6

    I know local councils are a bit cash strapped but providing an aire type facility for parking overnight then charging say £10 a night would bring in say £100 per night for 10 spaces.  Over a year assuming they are full every night that equates to over £30,000 so it would seem the payback would be within a year then it is profit all the way.  Add this to the money people would spend in the local economy even it is only another £10 per person equates to another £60,000 a year so it makes you wonder what these councils are thinking when they firstly stop MH overnight parking then do not add any provision for the loss.  Even providing MH bays for parking close to town or attractions would be a start, instead all we see are height barriers!!

    Like PD & many others we are finding even for a short break of a  week we can get a cheap ferry crossing to the continent and recoup the cost being welcomed to the local community where we can park without fear or retribution from them many places for free.

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,860 ✭✭✭
    5,000 Likes 1000 Comments Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited November 2018 #7

    Rufs

    Surely the simplest answer is for the Council to ban overnight parking if that is perceived to be a real, rather than an imagined, problem. Or at the very least limit it to certain areas. We have had situations in the past where motorhomers have been blamed for things which turned out to be completely untrue! But the blame game helps convince those that have no understanding of the situation. Little bit disappointed that you don't seem to be sharing any solidarity with people share the same hobby as you. Someone in your situation could put forward a reasoned argument to Councillors explaining that some, even if short term, parking should be available?

    David

  • young thomas
    young thomas Forum Participant Posts: 11,356
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #8

    "Being a caravaner I have never used an Aires, do the facilities that are provided officially within Europe get abused in the same way?" 

    Rufs, I don't really know what your question above means....

    aires are used by MHers for many reasons within the constraints (if there are any) of that provision...

    sometimes they may just be allowed to park in the daytime, usually it will include overnighting. sometimes there is a time limit (24/48/72 hrs) but often, in small villages, not.

    they dump their grey and toilet waste in the facilities provided...almost always but some Aires are parking with no services.

    they put their dry waste into bins...sometimes these are full, as at home..

    they fill with fresh water, if required....sometimes there is a small charge (€2 jeton) or free.

    so, Aires can vary in their allowed usage, but I've never seen one 'abused' and can't imagine how they can be as they provide the services those using them require.

    whilst I don't expect UK car parking to provide me with water and waste facilities, I'd expect decent bins (and to be emptied) and are happy to pay a sensible fee to park....in appropriate spaces.

    however, I drive a taxed vehicle, which has as much right to be on a road as anyone else's and if parking is available and legal, why can't I use it with as much right as a 'local' or a car driver or, heaven forbid, a local car driver?

     

  • Tammygirl
    Tammygirl Club Member Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭
    2,500 Likes 1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #9

    The problem is that we are all assuming that the folk who would use these areas would do so responsibly. However we all know that is not always the case. 

    Just outside our village is a small car parking area, probably will take 9 cars if parked correctly. Its very popular with canoeists as there is a good access to the river Tay and the rapids there. 

    We sometimes get a MH or 2 staying overnight on the car park, no problem as long if they leave it clean and tidy. If they don't then who is supposed to clear up the mess they leave and the damage they do to the area.

    What about the house across from it if its not responsible folk, loud music, banging doors, loud voices etc. It does happen and its that kind of behaviour that will see a barrier go up if it continues.

    The current trend of MH's will IMO continue to rise and some will by nature be freeloaders, while others (the majority) are law abiding citizens who are more than happy to spend £10 for a safe, clean place to park. Getting this message over to those who count is not an easy path. 

    We unfortunately we see lots of the 'free loaders' in our area, because they think that access to the countryside and wild camping in Scotland is 'allowed' the former is true but the 'wild' camping is  about tents not MH's.

    The mess and destruction of  hundreds if not thousands of MH's is doing to our roads and countryside is causing a backlash up here and it will come to a head soon if nothing is done about it. Its not just the coasts they congregate at.

  • cyberyacht
    cyberyacht Forum Participant Posts: 10,218
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #10

    I can understand Steve Dugan getting a bit twitchy if the residents of Cliff Road are giving him grief about MH's parked outside their houses but fail to see why a few MH's parked for the night along to the west of the Haven should be seen as problematic. Whilst I'm not going to be spending the night down there, it does make a pleasant spot to watch the world go by. As has been mentioned up thread, are MHomers now to be regarded as second class citizens when it comes to parking?  A similar situation pertains now with Havant BC with regard to overnight parking at West Hayling.

    A not untypical response of local councillors who love to ban things, charge the earth for parking and then wonder why their High Streets are empty and the budget has a big hole in it.

  • Takethedogalong
    Takethedogalong Forum Participant Posts: 17,046 ✭✭✭
    10,000 Likes 1000 Comments Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited November 2018 #12

    I agree with elements of both the last two posts. The problem in this country tends to revolve as always around money. Who will pay for any services required, (regardless of how little is actually required) and also, how much can we get away with charging? Couple that with some inconsiderate parking outside local residences, the tiny minority who do cause issues, and it becomes a negative response. Parking fees are big business, all across the country.

     

  • MichaelT
    MichaelT Forum Participant Posts: 1,874
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #13

    See my post above regarding costs, only thumb in the air of course but maybe not too far off?

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #14

    Locals are getting more and  more vocal about motor caravans parking on sea fronts and blocking the outlook from water front hotels and guesthouse also private property's, which did not occur so much in the past when it was just cars on the seafront at less than half the height, my brother on the IOW says it is also being looked at by the council

  • nelliethehooker
    nelliethehooker Club Member Posts: 13,644 ✭✭✭
    5,000 Likes 1000 Comments Name Dropper
    edited November 2018 #15

    for those with 'green' chemical toilets (no fomaldehyde) you can empty safely into any toilet....we now only use bio washing pods...

    So your'e a good guy, BB. But how do you, or anyone else, know what others are using in their cassettes. I would like to bet that the majority of those that are emptying their toilets i the public loos are using the standard blue fluid.

  • Bakers2
    Bakers2 Forum Participant Posts: 8,195 ✭✭✭
    2,500 Likes 1000 Comments Name Dropper
    edited November 2018 #16

    Ok silly question coming up embarassed

    Does it matter what you're using in a toilet cassette? We use bio pods but occasional use organic fluid. Surely it all ends up at the treatment works?

    I grew up with cess pit drainage, but that was many moons ago! We watched the amount of water used, to save emptying too often, but no other restrictions.

  • cyberyacht
    cyberyacht Forum Participant Posts: 10,218
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #17

    I am somewhat puzzled by the proposed action in the OP as the parking area in question has only a wildlife area behind it and does not obstruct anyones view. Just a case of bye-law obsessed councils again.

  • mickysf
    mickysf Forum Participant Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭
    2,500 Likes 1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #18

    Those naysayers walk amongst us, particularly annoying are those that have no connection or understanding of our pastime whatsoever but still voice their opinion.

    This sort of person often find themselves on council decision making bodies. It seems frequently to be a prerequisite mindset for becoming a counsellor in my opinion.

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #19

    Those naysayers walk amongst us, particularly annoying are those that have no connection or understanding of our pastime whatsoever but still voice their opinion.

    There is nothing like an unbiased opinion Micky ...................... 

  • mickysf
    mickysf Forum Participant Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭
    2,500 Likes 1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #20

    True, guilty as suggested but nevertheless they do annoy me if they really have no understanding whatsoever of the issues and show no interest in finding out more before throwing their two pennyworth in. 

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #21

    And where does the idea come from that unless you own a motor caravan and use it as some do although by the amount noted on sites they are used just the same as as a towed  LV that "others?" do not understand

    We used a P&R this year (Whitby?) and being a bit older needed to use the toilet, where some one had emptied a toilet cassette in one of the cubicles but had managed to pour most of it over the toilet and and floor yell

    "

  • Aspenshaw
    Aspenshaw Forum Participant Posts: 611
    500 Comments
    edited November 2018 #22

    My local Councillor told me that the cost of providing overnight parking would be £120,000. That is the cost of minor road improvements such as marking out the area, the modest cost of policing given that some motorhomers have a habit of absconding without paying for an overnight stay, but the biggest cost is the provision and maintenance of parking meters and signage. I know one Derbyshire Council who couldn't afford to increase car parking fees this year because the new signage would cost £45,000 [it is lumbered with numerous small car parks]. 

    We have active Nimbies who don't want their view blocked by motorhomes and unfounded allegations of inappropriate motorhome behaviour which puts at risk our blue flags.

    It's the upfront cost that puts off Councils from providing overnight parking for motorhomes. Some Council's will use their Tourism budget and some will get help from the Government. The majority would just have to stump up the full cost. Our Council is looking to get a private firm to develop and run an overnight parking scheme but so far there has been no interest. The lack of interest from the private sector to a supportive Council suggests that there is no easy profit to be made.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #23

    Why would you call someone who has probably paid a premium price to have a view a Nimby that is then blocked by a big white boxes for hours or days if they can get away with it with the waste running away as noted last week at Cromer (parked every day we passed)surprised

  • Rufs
    Rufs Club Member Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #24

    actually CY the area in question takes in the seafront from Lee on the Solent down to the meon shore, which is all FOC parking, which as i stated is cherished by locals especially during the winter months when you can meander down perhaps take a short stroll and then have lunch in your car, to introduce any sort of charging for Mh's would put this perk in jeopardy, because as has been alluded to above some seem to think that because they pay road tax they have the right to park a 7mtr MH just about anywhere, and if they have to pay we all pay. Also some of the monetary figures quoted above do not take into account the costs of putting in place charging facilities or quite probably a human wage to manage the collection of monies cleaning of facilities etc. I am not anti MH's per say, but when someone in a 7mtr motor home occupying 2 FREE and i stress FREE bays threatens to put my lights out when i politely ask him to free up just 1 of the bays by moving his camping stove and chairs, I do get angry, his camping gear nearly ended up on the beach. Also I should add that MH's are not specifically banned from parking in the free areas but the signs do say no camping of overnight habitation, but do they take heed, I think not        

  • Takethedogalong
    Takethedogalong Forum Participant Posts: 17,046 ✭✭✭
    10,000 Likes 1000 Comments Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited November 2018 #25

    We have used one overnight MH stop, and know of another which is very well used. We stopped in middle of Stratford upon Avon, by Leisure Centre, a few years ago now. It is an existing car park, has bays large enough for coaches. Cost us £2 overnight, was quiet, safe, even had a decent dog walk. Cost nothing to provide, all that was required was the Council will to let MHs overnight. Same with other one, Helmsley allows a small number of overnight stays in coach park near Castle. Again, nothing to provide, already there. Adjacent to town, quiet, decent dog walk again. It can be done, just needs those in power to grant usage.

    I do have certain sympathies with coastal resorts. It’s not attractive seeing lines of big tall vehicles day after day nose to tail on esplanades. The stretch of roadway at Longrock overlooking St Michaels Mount used to be nothing but foreign MHs from May to September a few years ago, most of them not moving for days on end. But let them use car parks overnight when it’s quiet, hurts no one. Overnight stops aren’t really an issue, it’s those that pull up and stay the week for free that seriously annoys local residents.

  • young thomas
    young thomas Forum Participant Posts: 11,356
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #26

    much as we like to think so, I'm not sure (in law?) any of us has a right to a view....buildings are erected blocking the previously lovely view from a property further back....if permission is given for development, hard cheese...

    similarly, with seafront hotels...they (and we) are subject to those rules and permissions...if daytime parking is allowed, surely to ban MHs is discriminatory?

    if a council wants to move the MH parking away from a particular area then can't those MH use the spaces that the cars which formerly couldn't get onto the seafront used?....ie spaces in regular carparks.

    im happy to park on the street but am similarly fine with paying for a car (MH) parking space, provided it isn't a rip off. no other special facilities required for day parking.

    so, i pay, my van isn't on the seafront, residents happier?....

    however, just the outright banning of MHs seems to be today's knee jerk reaction...

    my big beef is with the (general) non allowance of MHs in city P&R, if ever there was a good way of providing parking for larger vehicles without the potential impact on town/city centres its P&R.

    we have a great one on our route into Bath, lovely for a stop off heading north.....ah, two huge parking areas but height barriers on both.

    now I know that there are other similar facilities around Bath but not on our route, which makes it a longer diversion.....so why some and not all out of town facs run by (presumably) same authority?

    there is always one reason given and that is the potential misuse by 'travellers' and the worry of clean up costs.....

    so, let's get the law changed to make deliberate trespass a criminal offence where offenders can be removed instantly without the lengthy and costly exercise we have currently...

    isnt this better than withdrawing a provision to the majority just to deal with a few who have no respect for others and their property?

    as with all these debates, the many who park sensibly and treat places with respect are hounded as they are seen (by association?) to be of that ilk?

  • Rufs
    Rufs Club Member Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #27

    I am sure peedee you are 1 of the responsible MH owners, and i am sure you enjoy touring abroad as i do, however , i was in the Mazarron area early this year and the Spanish police were having a crack down on wild camping, and I am not surprised, some of the areas used for this activity are left in a disgusting state, not all Brits I know but in the main MH owners.   

  • Unknown
    Unknown Forum Participant
    edited November 2018 #28
    The user and all related content has been Deleted User
  • young thomas
    young thomas Forum Participant Posts: 11,356
    1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #29

    Rufs, I agree that they will mainly be MH owners as (despite some views to the contrary) MH touring, especially overseas, isn't caravan touring...

    the system is set up differently there, and ass DD says, provision is readily available for impromptu MH travel (no caravans on authorised Aires) with thousands of authorised stopping places and many, many more 'open' parking areas where MH are not singled out for exclusion.

    so, MH travel (and stopping/overnighting) is just so easy...

    having said that, it doesn't mean I'm happy to see folk (in any vehicle) abusing facilities or countryside...

    the thing is, there are so many Aires with toilet dumping facs it shouldn't be difficult to use them....even if folk are parking up in other allowable places without such facs, it's usually a short distance to the nearest aire to dump and collect fresh water....

    i guess it's only natural that (provided such parking is allowed) folk with go anywhere vehicles like MHs are going to choose attactive places over dull ones....

    this isssue seems to be that the authorities are happy for them to park in dull places but object to them staying at the nice ones.....

  • mickysf
    mickysf Forum Participant Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭
    2,500 Likes 1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #30

    But in this senario you would be speaking from experience,  having an opinion would be absolutely justified but hopefully you would not tarnish all MHers with that same toilet brush. Trouble is many do and then have opinions way beyond their understanding and experience. Sometimes even making decisions which directly effect others.

  • Oneputt
    Oneputt Club Member Posts: 9,144 ✭✭✭
    2,500 Likes 1000 Comments
    edited November 2018 #31

    Exactly right BB they can park in unattractive areas, but I for one, as a local tax paying resident, don’t want them on our seafront