The increasing cost of site fees.
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I can assure you JVB that we use or van and our MH in totally different ways. Both are small outfits by the way, 13 foot Caravan, 5.5 metre MH.
The MH is easier to tour in. Setting up takes 2 minutes to that first cup of tea, likewise getting off takes a mere 10 minutes. We only fill water every 3-4 days, we only dump water every 3-4 days. We tour in it, hop from site to site in a linear manner. Occasionally we park up and it doesn't move for maybe a couple or three days, but seldom more.
The caravan takes longer to set up, requires water and waste servicing every day, and is better for long stays in one place, the Hobbit there and back every day holiday. It's also takes a bit longer to get off and hook up, and as you say, slower to tow. We have toured with it, changing sites every three days or so, but compared with the MH it's a lot harder way to tour. We have witnessed some folks take five or six hours to pitch a caravan up, with an awning. Never seen an MH take that long, even a hired one.
So, it's MH for tours, caravan for one site longer stays.
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The Caravan & Motorhome Club is not only a club but it is also a business with massive overheads which it has to cover ,and also this year millions of pounds have been spent improving I think 3sites making staying on sites a more pleasant experience for its members.Surely a couple of pounds here and there is hardly a reason to complain .I think the Club offers good all round value for money and I’m proud to be a member.
Brian & Jo
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No problem with your comments ,I was just pointing out ,whereas in the past the on site staff (in,most industries) were "capable"of carrying out the work, the industry that has grown up with what are staff now with all the legal documentations to make them "responsible"when any work is done ,making litigation less likely to be taken out against the on site staff,which has increased overhead costs enormously of organizations that they are now contracted to
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has to be a +1 there
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there's a sort of paradox in there, People say they want the club to be more like 'commercial' sites but large commercial sites offer more SP, more space, more facilities and yes of course at a price.
when the does tries to do the same then people still 'complain' it wasn't the club of yesteryear?
Btw I wouldn't say that having a SP is elitist? is it?
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I think therein lies the paradox.
The club is a club, its articles state that it must reflect the will of the members.
The club is also a huge commercial enterprise and a limited company.
The executive are generally long serving members who put a lot of time and effort into serving the club and keeping it on an even keel. They deserve our respect for that.
This is a problem though, they are all retired people of a certain age and one cultural demographic.
The club is there to serve its members and does this. The problem is that the members want what they know. They probably shopped at Woolies, BHS, Comet and House of Fraiser and don't understand why their local high street is now all closed down. It is not because their favourite shops did anything wrong, they did what the had always done. Unfortunately the world moved on and they were too slow to react.
The club is at that point and need to acknowledge that. I think they know this and the name and brand change was in my view positive.
The issue is deeper.The club has a virtual monopoly and needs to exploit this in the modern world. They really need to understand how younger people interact with them and each other. In this world data is king, they have a truly amazing database of customers and this is a massive asset that they need to exploit, I don't think they know this.
The club had a virtual monopoly 20 years ago. The use of leisure vehicles has grown amazingly in recent years. The club remains virtually static. Other options are now available the club need to innovate not follow.
Whilst it concentrates on print media and does not embrace social media the next generation will not become members. Communication through a magazine, and book of maps, my kids just don't understand what that is.
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Phishing, how can you possibly state that the club has a virtual monopoly when the C&CC had a membership of over 280,000 households, or nearly 600000 individual members in 2016 and has increased more rapidly than the CC's since.
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Do you know, I think it is forward thinking! Increasingly inclusive of all caravaners be they motorised or otherwise, recognising this in the rebrand and name change, the continued no minimum nights stay 'rule', the construction of MH service points on existing sites and also on refurbished sites. The increased number of hard standing pitches being provided which helps those front wheel drive MHs and lighter tow cars and caravans.
The future is bright whatever it brings, all we have to do is embrace it.👊 But with this comes a cost!
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The club has a virtual monopoly and needs to exploit this in the modern world.
On what? sites? there are over 2000+ sites in the UK, the has just over 200
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The simple facts for me are that, for motorhomers and caravanners the CC provides the same as many sites do whether other clubs or commercial. Such sites are not generally a place for stay on site family entertainment. That is the provision of large park holiday sites which don't rely on touring outfits as their core business.
The holiday sites with entertainment and extra facilities are generally large sites with their own static holiday accommodation as a core. I have used both over the years but they are aimed at a different market. Most people do not buy a caravan to just use such parks and I certainly didn't. If one wished to spend all holidays on such parks why buy and maintain your own caravan? I can't think that it costs much less than £1,500 a year to run a caravan with purchase etc. If you then get away for 40 nights a year that is £38 a night plus £35 pitch fee (without children) Over £510 a week. Why provide your own caravan and pay the same as renting a static? (I based the costs around Swiss Farm mentioned by BB).
Whilst such parks for some families with caravan might form a part of their holiday plans I suspect that it is far from the largest part. For some of those without touring outfits it might form a large part of their holidays but unlikely to do so for we tourers IMO
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...but the 'fixed costs' you suggest above Alan, apply whether you visit a club site or a commercial.
how can you/anyone possibly know how may sites a family might use as part of their 'holiday'.
it might (or might not) cost what you say to 'run a caravan' but even £1500 is going to be a tight sum for a year's family holidays, especially as many like to get away for some sunshine.
so, for those that can't get abroad, or are on a more limited budget, I can easily see that sites that provide a bit broader range of services and activities might well appeal to families with active kids.
National Trust properties and museums don't hold as much interest for active kids as they do for the Club's core membership.
the club model is currently fairly successful. the question is will it be so as demand changes moving forward?
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the club model is currently fairly successful. the question is will it be so as demand changes moving forward?
Ahh.....that frequently quoted supposition, now being put forward almost as fact......
Why will demand change in the future, and what evidence do you have to support that theory....??
£50 grands worth of leisure vehicle, and looking around a site, that seems to be the typical spend (whether it be M/H or car + caravan) will always be the preserve of more mature members, those who have probably fully or nearly cleared their mortgage and/or had an inheritance or accessed a pension lump sum. These will be the clubs core customers in the future...
And I know you can caravan for far less money, we started when first married with a £600 van, but only as a bit of a toy, like most youngsters we wanted proper holidays on a plane, waterskiing in Florida, driving a convertible through Death Valley in America, the club can never compete with that. It's only as you get older that sitting on a site with your dog will ever appeal.....
I've said it before, SAGA makes tens of millions of pounds of profit, far far more than CC, by focussing on the over 50's.....
No one has shown me any evidence yet as to why CC should do any different.....
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fully agree with every single paragraph there +10
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TT, no supposition, just a question...why is everything on CT seen as some sort of conspiracy theory?
to answer your question, all we can do is wait and see....lets do that, then, shall we?
chat again in 20 years time?
BTW, looks like you're officially 'top of the class', well done
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+ 11 ⭐️
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.but the 'fixed costs' you suggest above Alan, apply whether you visit a club site or a commercial.
how can you/anyone possibly know how may sites a family might use as part of their 'holiday'.
it might (or might not) cost what you say to 'run a caravan' but even £1500 is going to be a tight sum for a year's family holidays, especially as many like to get away for some sunshine.
I think that you miss my point BB. My point was not how many sites people used but simply that there was little point in having a motorhome or caravan if all you wanted was Park type hols. Why maintain, clean and faff. The point is that folk are likely to want other things than just the holiday park experience in owning a touring outfit and that includes visiting sites to explore the area. This is where the less singing and dancing sites (including CC) come in throughout the UK.
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TT's words are wrong on so many levels in your case, David. Sitting around on a club site with your dog? Hmm, I don’t think so.
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Quite true, we are just starting our third week here and have not needed to stay arround the site,as the site staff here say "people come here for a couple days then keep booking on, then say how do we tell those at home we have spent a fortnight holiday at Peterborough,"just shows how much there is to do in most places in the UK if you have the oportunity to find them
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Sneer? How d'you make that out?
It was humorously pointing out that club sites and dogs are so not you.
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so, as it's such a success for CCC, CC has introduced tenting on all of its sites has it?
younger families staying at CC sites, whether as a 'staycation' (whatever that is) or not, will be looking for more to do than sit around ....with, or without dogs.....
...and if they're strapped for cash (the reason for not flying off somewhere nice) they won't be doing stately homes (unless members) or museums with their extortionate prices...
not only that, it bores the pants off kids.
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There must be something terribly wrong with modern "youngsters" if their idea of a good holiday is a Club site, regardless of whether it has an outdoor pool ( too cold most of the time) or a clubhouse (going to be full of older people) .
In our 20's, 30's and 40's we drove the Pacific Coast Highway, explored San Francisco, Chicago, did the Florida theme parks, mountain biked the Alps, Ski'd them in the winter etc etc.
It's only now in our 50's that putting on a pair of walking boots and trekking around the Lake District & the west coast of Scotland with our dog appeals. Sure, we had a caravan right from the day we married virtually and when the kids were young we took an inflatable boat & outboard motor and launched at New England Bay, North Ledaig, Carradale Bay, Bunree & several non CC sites, as per AD, but that was only the odd week, we didn't regard ourselves as a CC core customer.....
If modern "youngsters" ambitions and desires is a CC site with a few more facilities then I feel very sorry for them....
On the other hand at 50+ as you become time rich, financially secure and responsibility free, then passing time on a CC site (even at £25-30 night...
) and the surrounding area becomes of interest (to me).Modern "youngsters" need to up their game, see some of the world and forget CC sites till they're too old to do "proper" adventures.....
And leave the CC to concentrate on it's core market.....
All in my opinion of course.......
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You may of misunderstood what I was trying to say AD.......
I've just this evening booked us a Valentines day trip to Rome next year, we love Italy and aim to visit at least twice per year, flying obviously & usually hiring a car. My wife has a girlie long haul holiday with her mates every year as well and we have a favourite hotel in the Lake District we visit once or twice a year. I have some "bloke" trips to Scotland with my motorbike.......
To us a M/H is a very small part of our "holidaying" experiences and as we both work, we don't have time to lumber down through Europe in it from the North of England.
A few half baked additional attractions on a CC site will never allow it to compete with far more interesting & exciting places in the world.......
Is it good to use a CC site as a base for outdoor activities, definitely, will a few more facilities make it an exciting adventure, not at all, should young families be going there and malingering around in a CC play area, No - in my opinion, go and show the kids something they won't see at home.......!
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most of today's youngsters will only be free of work at around 70, when views might have slowed but in the meantime they won't be thanking their parents for going to a club site.
however, if Mom and Dad want to go, it might be slightly less daunting if there are a few things for them to do..
we saw many other youngsters (along with us) enjoying the (very hot) pool at Hillhead earlier in the year.
we were lucky enough to be able to se a lot of the world with our kids when we were both working but back then, a caravan/MH hadnt entered our heads...
we still see plenty of the world, sometimes with the van, sometimes without....
many ypunger folk are really busy, I know my DD and SIL are....young daughter, different leisure persuits, springer spaniel....although they bought a small MH a couple of years back, they don't have the time to use it and their 'holidays' involve more rest, sun, sea and sand....
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