The increasing cost of site fees.
Comments
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TDA posted "Most Club Sites are nothing more than dormitory pitches, but located in or close by other attractions."
agreed, but why are their prices similar to those sites which can be (as you say) 'destinations' but also are 'located in or close by other attractions'?
in my example, Swiss Farm is in the virtually same location as HFO....just outside Henley....but offers far, far more for those who want it, for similar money.
we paid £23 a night against £21.50 or so at HFO....but, just for starters, our pitch had water, a fully serviced pitch was only a pound a night against £3.90, there were the extra facilities I mentioned earlier along with better showers (50% larger cubicles, heated floors, fully adjustable shower heads), free wifi......etc.
the club 'model' is as you say, but the facilities and ability to deliver customer service levels is not comparable to most modern commercials.....yet the prices don't reflect this.
things have moved on a lot in the commercial world, where folk want more for their money. the club has stuck with what it knows and this is fine while the membership is full of retired folk who, perhaps, don't want these things...
...but will these younger folk with families that are (apparently) joining the club soon realise that their active family will soon be looking for more than what is traditionally found on a club site?
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compare that to the club staff model where (often) one couple (on great salaries?) have to move away from being the focus (in the office) to carry out toilet cleaning and maintenance roles (grass cutting, bins, etc) reducing their obvious 'presence' and service levels by closing toilets/showers.
No comparison really BB. A bit like comparing tinned pears to fruit salad. Club sites rarely have swimming pools or eateries (the later which hopefully bring a profit). Not usually just one couple either but more on a rota. I personally have no need of a reception staffed right throughout the day.
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Main diference of course is that the touring part of Swiss farm is just part of a large holiday home site with a large incomes from other sources on the complex
We checked a Haven holiday park in Norfolk ,and the ground rents alone from one 10 month availability (your own)holiday home is over £5000
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we are in October, hardly peak, yet I saw at least ten staff working at Swiss Farm.....
HFO, same week, two.....and one was under pressure in the office as his wife hadn't returned from somewhere (shopping, cleaning toilets?..) and he was desperate to leave the office as he had to 'rake over a few pitches and remove some leaves.....'.
this is how the club model drives the staff task list and manoeuvres customers into the spaces....hardly customer focussed in my book....
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if the touring park was taking money from the other elements, why would they run it at a loss?
better, in your expert view, to close it or convert the touring pitches to statics?
we will continue to seek out all types of sites, in all locations, that deliver great customer service at great prices....
i know it's hard for some to swallow, but that isn't always a CC site....
IMHO, they are lagging behind the modern competition and could do with upping their game....or lowering their prices
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again, sorry to disagree, but IMHO, in general the CC staffing model doesn't allow what I call 'great customer service' which was what my comment was referring to.
to have a warden hopping about (while I was checking in) as he was 'desperate to get out of the office' (he had 'other things' to do) doesn't bode well....
as it happened, his wife arrived mid booking and he vanished immediately....
this would not have happened at most other commercials with dedicated reception staff, but the CC model doesn't have any fat/scope for any delays in the daily ritual.
the whole day is a sequential process, with one task dependant on the completion of the previous one....meaning customers have their slot and their place....
not how it should be, IMHO....
none of the above means I don't think wardens don't work hard (they do) or are loathe to help members when required, merely that their daily schedule gets in the way....
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Your need for a warden to pamper (pander?) to you surprises me BB......
Apart from checking you in when you arrive, what do you need a warden for.....?
I can only remember once in 30 years arriving at a CC site and there was no warden in the office (Dunnet Bay).
There was a note in the door saying go and find a pitch, leave your membership card thro the letterbox etc etc....
Are you going soft, becoming needy like my MIL & FIL.......?
I thought you were a fairly self sufficient European traveller......?
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What "customer service" does one really want from a stay on a caravan site of any description, though, BB. Given the relatively small amount of time actually spent on site - an efficient check in process and clean well maintained facilities? Never found that lacking on a club site actually!
We love staying on CL's - 5 this year - friendly owners, a chat while paying, clean facilities - does that count as great "customer service"?
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Could I say that the Wardens were excellent during the three days we were there and were helpful, chatty and sociable whenever we had need of their help and advice
from another thread.
Personally I have found a warden always on duty in the office on the sites I visit, and anyway apart from arrival what do you need most of the time?
and wouldn't having more staff drive up prices? I assume they have to be paid?
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Thankfully so, the H&S has saved countless lives & limbs, the so called ‘nanny state’ attitudes have changed finally dictating that the working person is no longer just a commodity. Praise be to H&S, long may it’s power be felt & feel the collars of the greedy exploiters😤😤
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exactly M, apart from booking in what else unless there is a problem? tea brought to your van on demand? Perhaps some are more needy than others, always happens no matter where
The thing the proof of the pudding or pitching could be taken from the reviews, start a tally on the theme of friendly, efficient, welcoming wardens v anything to the contrary? Wonder which would win?
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+1 there
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Customer service? I have needed additional 'customer service' on a handfull of occasions in the last 8 years, Oven door glass shattered so I borrowed a vacuum cleaner with revolving brushes to pick up last bits of glass. Damaged some trim under caravan edge and borrowed drill bits so I could drill and wire up. Needed to borrow additional spanner to replace a cracked pressure relief valve, Needed some taxi numbers in a rush to collect car from repair to punctured power steering pipe. Needed a warden to help take down a neighbour's awning that was collapsing in a gale. Phoned a warden to close caravan door as we had gone into local city on P&R and realised that neither of us had shut up the caravan (is that needy in my old age?). Contact info for a mobile caravan chap. On each occasion service with a smile and a bit of craic
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lol, no on the contrary TT, happy to muck it in a field with a tap and a CCEP....
im just stating that club sites don't have the same customer service 'face' that commercials have.....IMHO, of course...
on large sites, with more amenities, it's quite likely that visitors might need more contact with reception staff....again, in my experience...
of course, CC sites with no amenities require little contact, as you say.
its just the different nature of different types of sites.
id rather have my reception staff in reception than in a lawn mower, just my view.
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Let's get rid of the wardens completely, why are we paying someone to chat, lend spanners and close caravan doors....
Let's move to an ANPR barrier entry system based on your booking vehicle reg.....
Get some zero hours contract cleaners in for the loo's.....
And the same to cut the grass......
Might even save a few coppers on the site fees.........
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We can debate all day about pitches that have everything, that's just market forces, someone somewhere getting a little more for a little less, bit of extra cream in the same recipe cake.I think the Club is approaching a bit of a watershed moment. It's current stable market is, to be frank, dropping off the perch for a variety of reasons. To attract newer, younger members, it is tinkering around the edges, putting in pods, pushing tents, going into partnership with different models, Love2Stay being the most obvious example. But it is tinkering. It has to decide where it wants to be in 25 years time, and getting there is going to be painful for some sectors of the membership. To attract families it may need to put more onto Sites, but this is already out there, Hoseasons, Haven, the large all singing all dancing commercials. It isn't, and is unlikely to be able to compete with these without investment and staffing on a huge scale. Most of the existing big Club sites are full of pitches, so where does it put the pool, the restaurant, the playbarn, the Go Ape that families might want? Buying land is an astronomical investment.
So, what to do? Which is the largest growing sector in home holiday market at the moment? The clue is in the name change. Forget trying to compete with existing holiday parks. Put more effort into providing touring sites. Make it easier for MH's/caravans/Camper vans to park up, sleep, fill up, dump, shower and off. (Some visitors will need an out of unit shower facility or loo. Fine, but don't build a whole block complete with half a dozen teeth brushing cubbyholes, just put in two wet rooms.) Push some of the sites as Dormitory sites, let Caravan owners do the same if they want to, why restrict? Doesn't have to be all the sites, keep some sites or pitches as long term stays, with large shower blocks, a cafe, etc.... Some sites lend themselves to being very much a few nights and off. Others are better as family, longer stay Sites.
No use relying solely on membership either to determine what direction to go in. It needs carefully constructed surveys. One for existing members, then get out there and find out what none members want. Target families, younger element. Might have to cherry pick events to visit, to survey this market.
But above anything else, do something different, not try and emulate existing models and compete in a crowded market.
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Ttda, this mostly mirrors my own thoughts.
Unfortunately most, but not all, contributors to this discussion are comfortably off middle aged to elderly with decent newish outfits who do not want their club to change.
As you have said, the club really do need to undertake some serious surveys with all sections of touring and potential touring folk to remain relevant in the next few decades not just the next few years.
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So out of the two couples at Henley one couple were on there day off and one of the remaning couple was elsewhere, whereas at the big holiday park next door there were more staff if HFO was as big the staffing levels would have been larger also,so there is no comparison to be noted
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I cover all the bases M!
You have it sorted. A nice static in a gorgeous location, and a little tourer for a change! Much like us when we kept one van in Cornwall, and another for touring about! Very old examples though, heck we are from Yorkshire, we don't waste money!
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Your second sentence makes no sense to me so can't answer it.
Sure there will be well off folk with large expensive outfits in the future but will they want to be using CMC sites as they currently stand? That's the question for the club. If they don't attract them now and these folk get used to other facilities on offer then the club will be playing catch up.
As Ttda alluded to, and I agree, Motorhomers will be in the majority fairly soon and their priorities differ sometimes by quite a bit from caravanners.
Where are the Aires near cities for thes e folks? Turn some of the non performing sites into more basic sites, both for the M/homer and those who are either on a limited income or prefer those type of sites. Sort out the rubbish wifi system. People want this facility not excuses about the site being in a poor area.
Lastly, I'm one of those who are quite happy with my lot and don't need a great deal of change so I have no agenda to push, just agreeing with a sensible suggestion for the way forward.
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Motor caravanners, that may be more popular than now, but of those that are on here ,apart from the extra speed some are allowed to travel to get to sites , do not seem to be any diferent to any other one staying, as they arrive set up ,and leave at the end of their stay, ,and with the price of land and pressure to build housing the chance of an aires type places being made available in most of the UK are almost nil, unless there was a good return on the investment, and not just a few pounds spent locally from those who may use them, amongst the many who would not
Ps as for the WiFi system I do not think the investment needed to give the speeds some get at home on the majority as they are in poor areas for not just internet connections will only come about when as it keeps being promised by all governments is completed over the whole country
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We stayed on our favourite club site , Brecon the last week in September. The Club have done a terrific job on updating the site and the new wardens and shop staff are good. However a massive 70 out of .150 pitches are the fully serviced pitches. Many of these take the best views. On the final Saturday all standard pitches were full and presumably members were unable to book a pitch. Hpwever 27 of the fully serviced pitches were unoccupied. Surely this is a way of raising prices as clearly some people had paid for the unwanted and unused fully serviced pitch in order to get it. It is a great shame that this elitism is creeping into the club. Those who will pay extra get a better choice. This is not the club I joined 40 years ago.
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So 123 pitches out of 150 were occupied, even the last week in September, which is not school holidays or summer peak......
And Brecon is hardly noted as one of the "honeypot" sites.....
It sounds as though the club is doing very nicely thank you.....
And elitism sounds good, lets have a wide choice of pitches and prices, something for everybody then.........
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