Gas safety and electrical checks
Hello, I have just bought a 2002 Rimor Sailer motorhome as a first time newbie, new to owning and running a motorhome. It did not come with gas or electricity safety certificates.
So yesterday 4th October I took it to our local motorhome dealers (Alan Kerr Paignton) who said it failed both the gas and electricity safety checks because it has no gas drops and because the electrical system is not earthed. I said it did not have gas drops built in owing to the age of the vehicle. They say legislation has changed and gas drops are now mandatory.
I find it hard to believe the electrical system has no earth bonding even if the vehicle is 16 years old.
And surely gas safety certificates are only needed if I am going to hire out my motorhome (which I'm certainly not going to) or live in it for longer than 28 days (again, no).
I would be grateful for urgent comment and advice. Many thanks in advance.
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Having owned caravans and motor-homes since the 1980's, ALL have been fitted with gas drops to enable any gas leaks to escape through the floor. The alternative is probably or at least possibly, a huge explosion in the event of a gas leak.
Why no earth has been connected within the vehicle I also find very hard to believe, but it can be very easily rectified.
I'm not sure on the legislation or regulations regarding the need to get these issues fixed or not, but bear in mind if something does go wrong, you may well injure not only yourself but those around you. Rare though they are, both gas and electrical faults do happen, and sometimes with tragic consequences.
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I can't really help but will give my thoughts. Why are the comments urgent?
Gas Drop holes. Having had at lest 2 occasions in the last 13 years where a proper seal has not been made on the gas bottle on connection (probably operator error on my part) I would put a gas drop in the bottle compartment at the very least. No doubt other motorhome users will comment. I am a caravanner.
Earth bonding. I have no idea. If I was building a motorhome conversion I would not have bonded the earth personally and would rely on an RCD. I have no info on current practice (pun was not intended).
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“And surely gas safety certificates are only needed if I am going to hire out my motorhome (which I'm certainly not going to) or live in it for longer than 28 days (again, no).”
Correct although I’m not aware of a 28 day limit. The Gas Safe regs do not apply to touring units of any type unless hired for reward.
There would be no point in having bonded earth when the water pipes are plastic and the vehicle sits on rubber tyres. As with gas, the domestic regs do not apply.
I suggest you take it somewhere else, or don’t bother at all. That dealer has had much bad press in the past. It’s not one I would go to.
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I'd certainly get at least a second, or even third, professional opinion to ascertain what is needed to make sure your vehicle is 100% safe.
Possibly there is some corrosion on the earth straps and they are ineffective without either replacement or just a clean - I can't believe it was never earthed.
As said earlier get the gas system sorted before your first trip - or it might be your last ......
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There would be no point in having bonded earth when the water pipes are plastic and the vehicle sits on rubber tyres. As with gas, the domestic regs do not apply.
I would definitely want drop holes. This year I failed to make a satisfactory seal on a 3.9kg bottle. Lost the gas over about 5 days at a guess. I must be getting weak on the spannerwork. Carry leak detector spray now,
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Concerning electrical bonding, if the van was completely non-ferrous then you could argue that this isn't necessary, however, you have a metal chassis (albeit insulated from the interior) and you have metal taps and metal sink upon which you could easily place an electrical appliance like a kettle. Somebody mentioned RCD, well, this won’t work if the system isn’t bonded because it detects current flow to caravan earth and you don’t have one. Furthermore, rubber tyres are irrelevant because we are talking here about the caravan as a contained system not the exterior “earth”. The caravan system starts and finishes at the incoming isolator and the incoming power supply has an earth wire connecting back to the site electrical distribution system earth.
An electrical test to any edition of the Wiring Regs will fail if you don’t have bonding and it would have failed electrical inspection when built if not properly bonded.
Why isnt it bonded and is it safe? I can’t possibly comment but it doesn’t seem credible that it isn’t bonded and would be rather uncomfortable and want further investigation and advice.
Could I also add a plea. There is some great and well intentioned advice on this forum and I have benefitted over several years as a recipient, however, when it comes to electrical and gas safety matters not all this advice is correct and this can be dangerous. I will say no more but please be cautious that you are reading comments from people who are qualified to make them. Enough said and apologies if I have offended anybody.
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I agree, HG, and I think the thing to do is to always check things out for yourself and not to rely solely on advice given on any forum.
Great confusion exists as the domestic regs/recommendations do not generally apply to touring caravans/MHs usless hired out and we need to be clear in our own minds as to what does or doesn't apply.
Most of us on this forum are no longer active in the field we were once experienced in - I include myself in that - which is yet another reason everyone should do their own research.
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I agree which is why I tend to qualify any comments I make but as far as I recall, the electrical inspections that I had on my caravan were comprehensive and seemed to follow the Wiring Regs format even though not applicable to caravans. Two points that I made are, however, completely correct. An rcd wont work if there is no earth and rubber tyres are irrelevant to the internal protection in the van (which will in any case be connected to the site earth through the EHU three core cable).
I know that earthing in a largely metal free environment is debatable (e.g. a bedroom in a home) but the regs. do require all metalwork in a domestic accommodation to be bonded and I believe caravan and motorhome manufacturers follow that best practice.
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Unfortunately I no longer have a copy of the Wiring Regs (BS7671) although it’s available at the library (I had a complimentary copy of the 14th Edition when I was on the committee) but from a quick search it seems that section 721 may cover caravans and would require equipotential bonding of all conductive parts using 4mm cable. So, the Regs. may or may not cover caravans and motorhomes but it is fairly clear to me that manufacturers comply and dealers test to the Regs. The metalwork should be bonded.
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I’m glad we have a concensus of opinion on the regs not being applicable to touring caravans but, of course, that doesn’t preclude them being used as the basis for best practice. (The same applies to gas but I’m with the others in thinking adequate vent holes should be present.)
With regard to bonding, I have never ever seen bonding straps in any LV we've owned, or in any van I’ve looked at.
Talking of best practice by manufacturers, the last two vans we purchased had tick lists for electric checks with the paperwork. In both cases, items were ticked even though they did not exist in the vans. That rather makes one lose faith in the manufacturers.
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I think the 18th edition is current.
Yes, some caravans will be covered - statics hired out and those used for residential purposes.
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I just did an Internet search and the 18th edition of BS7671 section 721 covers caravans and motorhomes and includes mandatory requirements for equipotential bonding, however, even as a member the price of the BS is £60 which I’m not inclined to pay. Anyway, the Regs. are not retrospective and I cannot say how many previous editions this may apply to. It also requires Earth points to be accessible and protected from corrosion.
Would you see bonding straps from the chassis and behind the sink unit? I may take a look around my motorhome when I get a chance, or put a meter from the taps to the chassis!
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They’d be visible underneath and when the sink was removed - something that’s happened more than once.
Shall we leave it there before we are accused of dominating the thread?
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www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/7.11.1.htm
You could try this link for more information.I am not sure how to make it active though.
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Thanks for the reminder on this which I had forgotten about. This covered the 16th Edition of the Wiring Regs. (BS7671) and we are now up to the 18th so the guidance goes back some time. So, to be absolutely clear, to comply with the standards bonding IS required and has been for some years. Note also the requirement for double pole mcb’s (circuit breakers) and rcd’s which goes a long way to alleviate some people’s concerns about reverse polarity.
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