Weigh-bridge Shock
We have owned a 2015 Bailey Barcelona from new and have become increasingly concerned as a result of discussions on here about payload that I have eventually got round to taking the van to a weigh-bridge. Part of that concern has centered around my wife's insistence that she really does need to take six week's worth of clothes for a fortnight's holiday - together with a commensurate amount of food!
With the van stripped down to the basics - no carpets - aquaroll and wastemaster, awning carpet, lightweight clothes dryer and air pump under the bed, two 6kg gas bottles (one almost empty) and two plastic boxes in the front locker containing waste connections, hammer and mallet, plastic awning pegs plus two boxes of steel pegs and all the other paraphernalia we caravanners need; the usual melamine crockery and a small amount of cutlery and kitchen utensils, duvet on the bed (but no pillows) and that's about it - so nothing particularly extravagant and no clothes whatsoever and nothing in the fridge or freezer. However, it does have an AWD motor mover.
The MTPLM of the van is 1723 kgs - it actually weighed in at 1840kgs!
My first reaction was to query the accuracy of the weigh-bridge - particularly at such low weights, but I am assured by the local authority department responsible, that they would expect an accuracy of at least +/- 20kgs - so that doesn't help much!
Having seen the amount of equipment that quite a lot of 'vanners pull out of their units - none of which was present in our van when it was weighed, makes me think that most caravans on the road today, must be grossly over-laden.
I am going to have to have a serious re-think about what extras I have got to try to load into the car but that is already pretty full of all the things I quite rightly assumed were too heavy to go in the van.
What does everyone else do?
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awd motor movers would weigh about 70+kg, then the battery 35kg. completely strip the van, have nothing at all in it including battery and weigh again, then weigh everything as you put it back with the most important things first like battery/ehu cable/bedding/pots and pans etc. then when you get to mtplm stop and look at all the stuff you cannot put in. Then ring the nearest dealer and get a weight plate upgrade.
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...but a weight upgrade might have an effect on the towing ratio, or allowances, won't it..?
I thought I read that this ratio is determined using MTPLM not actual mass?
isnt it the MTPLM of a caravan that dictates (to a degree) the appropriate (or not) towcar?
not a caravanner so don't know but this seems familiar reading...
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We have a 2013 Barcelona there is just me and my wife plus 2 cocker spaniels,we have an essential all wheel mover because of where we park it an essential battery we also take clothes because we are not naturists we take food because we have to eat. We take bedding cutlery a tv water containers plus all the usual equipment needed to caravan It is a twin axle caravan so how the hell can we be over weight?. I know that we probably are over weight every time we go away especially on our 2 week summer holiday. If I understand correctly when you have an upgrade all you get is a certificate and other paperwork there is no physical action to strengthen the caravan in any way so in my view its a con. why is it not plated at its actual maximum capability from the start.
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It’s no con, as more to2 cars can pull it with th3 lower weight so more sales for Bailey!!
our Lunar lexon came in at 1650 mptlm when new in 2014, I asked for an upgrade and was abl3 to got to 1795 that’s an extra 150kg in payload, ours is now just over 300
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Take a look in your gas locker you should see a sticker, with another mptlm printed on it. It will also have the maximum loads the the axle has been approved to, when the manufacture got type approval for the caravan. You should also have a certificate on conformance CoC with the same information on it. Type approval is a legal requirement. The NCC / Cris is not. It is unlikely that your axles are rated to 1840kg. But I would guess that around 90% of vans are overweight, due to the totally inadequate payload allowance that is included for marketing reasons.
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Just to add to the above reply, if there is a plate in the locker showing a higher MTPLM then the cheapest way to 'upgrade' is to simply remove the exterior label as there will still be the one with the higher MTPLM in the locker. No need to go to the dealer or beg the manufacturer for an upgrade.
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We had the very same issues as the op, moved back to a caravan from a mh so did the correct thing and took it to weighbridge with the minimum things needed. We were 50kg over our weight allowance and that was after up plating it. Which is a joke as we only got an extra 35kg. It is our belief that most caravans are way overweight. We did get ours down to the allowance but the car is now full to bursting.
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Thank you for the helpful / somewhat reassuring comments so far. I have to say, I do have sympathy for the stance taken by dreamer1 although I am sure we both recognise this doesn't solve the underlying problem. As far as the car is concerned - it isn't an issue. I tow with a VW Touareg which has a towing limit of 3 and a half tons, so the van is well within its capacity and to be honest, I don't know the van's on the back most of the time.
I am aware of the upgraded plate and thank you Lutz for your suggestion. I will have a look this morning. However, the bottom line is that, having gone for an upgrade, stripped virtually everything out of the van (although goodness knows where I would put wastemaster, aquaroll etc etc in the car when it is already full with awning, dog cage, bbq, chairs etc), I am still probably only going to get back to conforming with the MTPLM - so where do the clothes, food etc go?
Top of the list for weight saving must be the gas bottles and spare wheel. Lighter gas bottles and roof rack on the car (£700) for the spare wheel - where do you stop??!!
I came across an interesting comment on p.11 of the Bailey Owner's manual:
"Please note: weighbridges, although regularly checked, can give varying (inaccurate) results."
Is that a get-out clause for Bailey? (Despite my local authority Weights and Measures Dept (as was), disagreeing.
Forgive me for feeling that the situation that I (and I assume many others) am experiencing, is an absolute mess.
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hi TG, hope you're having a great time away
what size car do you now have for your van?
i can see the issue your describing...
don't need an enormous caravan so opt for small/medium sized van, well comfortable for two....
seek out appropriate (not too massive) tow car, which isn't a problem to drive 'everyday'...
discover caravan payload isn't that good, so have to move everything to the tow car...
tow car not enormous (for above reasons) so may be short of required space or even payload...
a tricky one, for all sizes of caravan, it seems...
perhaps another 'rationalisation' of stuff (for most posters) required?
have a great time
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I suppose we should weigh our van just to check. I know we reduced the weight of the van when we received it by removing most of the stuff that makes the dining table into bunk beds, also took off the TV swinging arm brackets etc. We don’t carry a TV, Satellite Dish or BBQ. Only 1 safefill bottle. Still I suspect we must hovering around our limit
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Thanks to Boff and Lutz, I have now checked the plate in the gas locker (which I didn't know was there because it was obscured by the gas bottles!). That shows the MTPLM as 1800 - so that makes a big difference. I have also sourced what must be one of the last remaining Safefill bottles in the country (such has been the demand for them) and am picking it up tomorrow. That will be a net saving of about 15kg. I reckon that with a bit of jiggling about - like carrying the heavy Alko locks in the car, and a bit of judicious 'binning', I can get to somewhere close to that 1800 figure. I've actually managed to convince Ros that we really don't need 6 pillows and 2 decorative cushions on the bed so perhaps she is starting to get the message and the exercise has been worthwhile after all!
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I presume there must be a tolerance used then when prosecuting those towing overweight caravans? The fines if convicted are significant and I know it was reported that Kent police had a campaign during a summer 2017 and were were weighing caravans!!
A friend who had been caravaning for 20 years when I started gave me advice to chuck anything of any weight in the boot of my car. Fortunately I have a large boot. I have a caravan with loads of wonderful storage, much of which I can’t use, even thought I upgraded the weight, but only got 30Kg
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Yes very true. It’s the reason why I kept my 7 seater which has a load capacity of 880 kg which I know even with the four of us in the car doesn’t go anywhere near the max capacity. What’s good is that although the van the car ratio is dead in 85% when Car is empty, when loaded the ratio is far less
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I know my comment may seem a little controversial and may even offend some ( no offence intended) but isn't this post a warning for us to think about taking less away with us, not simply how to move it around the bus?? I'm sometimes amazed what people carry when they unpack, and that's the stuff we can see outside the van 😊
We've recently downsized to a small 2 berth van and we've been really strict with what we've packed. I know the modern vans aren't great at payload but also think about what you NEED to what you have packed away, I think many will be surprised!
Happy camping!
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We have a large twin axle with upgraded MTPLM, we pack only what we need on long tours (2-3 months) and still have empty locker space and empty space under the seats and bed. If we were to fill up all the space we would be well overweight!
We do not take a lot of outside furniture....no relaxers, no large awning etc, and any outside stuff and heavy things like my tools are carried in the car (VW Touareg) , rear seats down and heavy things loaded well forward.
It can be amazing what some people carry in their vans.....one we saw in Sweden unloaded a BBQ, a large rabbit hutch ( the 2 rabbits travelled in the car), a large table and 6 chairs, and 2 bicycles.
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There is no doubt that some doubt that some people load stupid amounts into their caravans however I think that there is a tendency for victim blaming going on here.
The OP stated that the headline MPTLM of his caravan is 1723kg. So working backwards I would guess his declared MRO will be arround 1550kg. This would give a payload of 173kg. First problem the MRO is paper work exercise ie it is calculated value no vans are actually weighed. Second problem, does anyone really know what is included in their MRO? If you can find it at all it’s in the smallest of small print. Third problem a caravan at MRO isn’t useable, To make it usable you need to add a battery ( 25kg) most often motormovers 30kg for a SA. Twin axle 60kg.
So potentially for a twin axle caravan like a Bailey. Barcelona you could have an extra 85kg added to the MRO before you have loaded so much as a packet of crisps. Fourth problem there is a allowance of +/- 5% so a caravan with a declared MRO of 1550kg could actually weigh “legally” 1627.5kg. So add on to that your 85kg You are upto 1712.5kg. This leaves a spare 10.5kg to use as you want.
Of course you might find your van is 5% lighter than delcared, but remember lower weights are a selling point, so you might also see Lord Lucan pitched next to you on a club site. I am sure that a number of you will tell me that they can caravan without a motormover, a disposable cigarette lighter for gas and a AAA battery. Good for you! Personally when I go away if prefer to pack just a little bit more than a change of underpants and a pot noodle to keep the weight down.
I have used the op’s Van as an example but really this apples to more or less all makes and models.
In my view trying not to overload a van you are playing a crooked game!
Stop press: I guessed the declared MRO of a 2015 Barcelona as 1550kg I just checked and it’s actually 1560kg if you do the calculations as I did before ie MRO plus 5% plus 85kg for mover and battery it comes to exactly 1723kg. Which is where we started. Sometimes you just can’t make it up unless it is a caravan payload.
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Neither controversial nor offensive - this is exactly the exercise I am going through. However, bear in mind that my original post stressed that there was very little in the van by way of 'extras' - and it was still overweight (no clothes or food, for example). We use very little gas but I have now bought a Safefill and the two steel gas bottles will be binned. Likewise with the Alko jack - it's useless with an AWD motor mover obscuring the jacking points and I have Lock 'n Level anyway. Plus, chances are I would call out Mayday if I had a flat. Alko wheel locks will go in the car, and the Milenco nose level guage will be left at home (I never check on site for the return trip).
This is a 'once only' exercise - I'm not going to faff about checking every time we go away - but once having determined a sensible loading regime, will stick to that every time.
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I have also found a similar problem at weighbridge not overweight but close.
BTW they only allow for one gas bottle in MRO.
I stripped everything out and weighed it back in trimming down to a minimum on all items. It can be done but I fear that as we go through a 4 week trip we are adding weight mostly food, bottles, books and other purchases.
10 or more years ago many vans had a load margin near 300Kg and a more reasonable MRO allowance, now its more like 150Kg with 30Kg MRO kit if you are lucky
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My last caravan, a 2007 model with a 50Kg upgrade ended up with a 230Kg allowance after a weigh bridge check. Even with just two of us, it is surprising how it gets even up with battery, gas, movers etc. before you start with the domestic stuff. Aquaroll and awning went in the car and we were still close to the limit with just a folding table, waste master and two reclining chairs in the rear underbed locker.
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I have now ruthlessly stripped everything out of the van that we either don't need or can physically fit in the car, although packing the car on Wednesday is going to be a challenge! I have managed to get within 20kgs of the gas locker plated weight (including clothes in the hanging locker and food in the freezer etc) which, although I know I'm kidding myself, is within the level of accuracy the local authority said the weigh-bridge was at. I can't see how I can do better than that.
It strikes me that the 'killer' in all of this is the AWD motor mover at 60 kgs but how on earth can the manufacturers expect anyone to move such a van - especially at our age - without one?
"Get a smaller van", some will say - but why should we have to? We like the space and the facilities the Barcelona gives us - which is why we bought it.
Might I suggest that it is yet another example of caravan designers never having actually used one in the real world.
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