Canopy/Awning advice please
We took the plunge at the weekend and purchased our first Motorhome. On 26th September we'll be the proud owners of a Rapido 665F. We were undecided whether to spend an additional £1,300 to have a canopy fitted. In your experienced opinion, will it be money well spent? Many thanks.
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Are you planning to use it over there or in the UK?
If only in the UK, I’d probably say it’s not worth it.
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We have a Fiamma windout awning on our motorhome and find it pretty useful especially in hot weather. I am not sure which model you are looking at but if its a basic windout £1300 seems a bit expensive.
David
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Agree with David above, £1300 for an awning seems rather expensive.
We bought a MH some years ago and it didn't have an awning; we decided to try a holiday in France without one. As soon as we got back, we bought one, as we really felt we needed one. We also have the sides for it, so can put either 1, or both sides on.
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As you have no doubt already noticed from the early replies, opinions vary. Some folks wouldn't be without one whilst some others never use theirs.
Ultimately, only you can decide.
Perhaps you could wait until next year to decide - you are unlikely to use one in the autumn and winter! You could always see how you get on in hot weather without an awning. If you find it unbearable, then you can have one fitted - or use pitches with shade! (Of course, if you do decide to have one fitted you may have to wait a while before a workshop has an available space.)
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Not mentioned above is the extra weight that an awning is. It may pay to consider using the weight for drive away awning or similar.
The Rapido 3.5 ton 7.4 m can be tight on payload, especially if you start to travel with full tank of water, bicycles and other bits. Also if you are consider taking a car at some point, the weight of the towbar will add to the payload.
An awning has its uses, especially on smaller mhomes, but the bigger mhomes, there is the weight to be considered, for some reason, the larger awnings seem to flap more in the wind.
just to add, from memory the later Rapidos do not have a recess in which the awning is mounted so hangs on the side, not a problem in the UK. But inFrance I seemed to collect a lot of foliage between the mhome and awning ;-))
On our Rapido 7090f island bed, mid bathroom, we have not missed an awning as we tend to stayin an area long enough to put up a drive away awning. If you expect to tour and not to lounge too much, a wind out can be useful. Best memories are sitting on a French campsite , under the awning out in a light warm rain.
Happy Rapido-ing
rgds
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just to pick up further on Tony's post above...
is this a new 2019 model? did the sale,an discuss weight and chassis options with you?
what license do you hold? do you have groups for over 3.5t?
the MIRO of this van is a hefty 3120 kg including only 20 ltr of water....
if the the van comes on the 'heavy' chassis, you (probably) won't have any weight issues, however, are you running this on a 3.5t chassis?
if so, just filling the water tank (it will take another 100 ltr) and adding your OH at a nominal 75kg will take the weight up to 3295kg, leaving only 205 kg of payload....which is a paltry amount....in fact, many would say this might make the van unusable...and suggest a minimum of 500kg for two people touring extensively...
this includes no outside chairs, tables, BBQ, books, electrical items, bedding, clothes, food, drink, wine/beer, bikes (if used), tools, outside mats, hoses/adaptors, levelling blocks, etc, etc, etc...
that 205kg may be long gone by the time even some of the above is added.
...especially as the long rear overhang will make the rear axle very vulnerable to exceeding its limit (2000kg), this will certainly be 'overloaded' before you reach your payload limit
vans can also have weight variances of upto 5% which might eat some of this payload without adding anything yourself.....manufacturers generally don't overestimate on weight......
i would strongly suggest you and your OH visit the dealer ASAP, get the van ('your' specific) van filled with water, both sit in it and then get it weighed, both axles...the dealer should have some weighing plates.
to my mind, this is paramount with this size/configuration of van...the main storage under the rear beds will be directly over the rear axle....
dont be 'fooled' by any salesman's 'upgrade' to 3650 kg...yes, this will update the overall payload but does not change axle limits, so the rear axle issue remains...
any salesman who won't help in this way wouldn't get my business, this is too important to get wrong.
i knew I wanted to run my van at 3.5t and I knew what we and all our kit (and water, gas etc) weighed, so I asked the dealer to weigh 'my' van (both axles) so that I could check the real payload availability
only after being totally confident (or not) about the vans ability to deliver legally what you want of it, should you consider adding any extra weight with the awning.
i have an awning and we use it for sun and to protect from light showers, however I have plenty of payload.
i also have no idea what 'extras' you might have ordered with the van, sat dish, solar panel, engine/gearbox(auto) upgrade, twin batteries etc, etc...
all,this adds weight not covered above.....and might make a 'very tricky' van 'impossible' to run legally on the light chassis.
i don't post this to scare a first time buyer in any way, merely to raise the issue of weight (probably not well understood by yourself and often conveniently omitted by salesmen) which will certainly be "a challenge' at 3.5t in a 7.4m van with a long overhang.
happy to help with any questions but buying a van which can't be operated legally or without serious compromise of what a MH is all about (having all your stuff/water etc with you and being self sufficient) will either drive you nuts or break your heart...
please, speak to the dealer ASAP.....good luck.
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BB, your usual thoroughly comprehensive and sensible advice on weight.......
But just to add to BB's post (if that is possible....
)If the awning being spoken about is from the Fiamma range they seem to weigh from 13 up to 30 kg, so indeed that is another large chunk of your payload gone......
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Only to add, as I may started the rain on your parade.
Our 3.5 t Rapido suits us fine, we carry most of the junk of life with us and have a great time mhoming !
Dont let my previous post get in the way of your purchase and enjoyment.
We have a towbar , carried electric bikes, a weeks supply of food, and an air beam awning, so cannot be all bad.
just a matter of doing sums ;-)
Rgds
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thanks, TT
its, always a difficult 'call' to post something like I did when a poster comes on with a line like....'I've just bought a new lovely xxxxx MH. any issues?'.....
i wish we got more posts that start with....'I'm considering.......'
payload, or lack of it, is as much an issue in MH threads as caravan ones.....it's whether it can be managed or not, without too much compromise.
folk who come from caravanning and are used to chucking the kitchen sink into their towcar forget that the vehicle they now have to chuck it into already has one.....
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We've motorhomed for many years and have been on tour in Europe since May. In hot weather an awning is an absolute necessity ... both as shade from the sun and to keep the van cool. Its also very handy if it rains as it gives you a shelter to get shoes on and off out of the rain without tracking mud into the van.
I would recommend getting tie down straps as well. These run from the front of the awning (or support legs) to an anchor in the ground and stop the awning flapping around if there is strong wind.
I'd leave buying one however until next summer ... the worst of the heat is gone now and you do need to dry the awning out before winding it back, if its been raining.
Enjoy!
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Assuming you are touring in summer and stay at one place for more than a day you will want to eat outside with table and chairs. You may want some kind of mat depending on the terrain. A canopy will provide a sun shelter and keep rain off of your outside equipment so I would say it is quite important. It takes only a couple of minutes to erect and provides some privacy.
Sounds expensive though and watch out for payload. Continental motorhomes are notorious more misleading on weight capability.
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"Continental motorhomes are notoriously more misleading on weight capability."
Hitch, want to help me put on this one? in what way, misleading?
most of the continental manufactuters, including the rapido mentioned in this thread, make it clear that the MIRO allows for 20l water.
i looked up some Autotrail and Swift details in a similar thread last week and they both include NO water in the their MIRO figures.
i don't think either is misleading if this info is easily available (usually tucked well away from casual researchers), however I'd say the two major UK manufactureres are darn right 'sneaky' in calculating their figures in this way.
some larger vans (larger than in the OP) from Swift are over 8m (8.11m) and yet can be had on a 3.5t chassis with just over 200kg of 'payload' with no water on board.
with a passenger and a full tank of water these vans are all but illegal (almost certainly compromised on the rear axle) before anything else is loaded.
to give an unsuspecting customer the idea that he can drive away an 8m van on a 'car' license and have years of happy touring is 'misleading' in my book.
the models in question should not be available in the form being sold and are not fit for (motorhoming) purpose, IMHO.
what annoys as much are 'reviews' (by 'experts') of vans which say things like 'payload is tight, upgrade to 3650kg' which does nothing to resolve the rear axle issue...
on a 3.5t chassis, just about any coachbuilt over 7m needs careful managing.....
7.5m is really pushing it and requires very 'light' travelling.....
over 8m is asking for trouble....
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Hi BB,
You didn’t expect me to bypass this one did you?! I know you use the term “some” in this case, but that “some” overall is not a good example of Swift 8m+ vans. Maybe just one new Bessie, the 599! The other Bessie’s in this range of 8.11 vans are MTPLM of 3850.
My 8.06m has a full length Alko chassis stretching to the end of my 8m van, with reasonable user payload and MTPLM of 4250! Some, actually, one, but not all!
BillC
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Happy to be corrected. I have been looking at several continental vans which all seem to be offering the impossible but if some UK makes are the same then they are all guilty. After all, to advertise, say, 100 litre water capacity and then say effectively that you can’t actually use it except when stationary is somewhat misleading.
Maybe I was spoiled with Autosleeper offering over 500kg payload when tank full.
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hi Bill, yes, on the face of it, I picked the 599 as its glaringly bad....however there are several other larger Bessie vans that are plated at 3850kg. however this is just a smokescreen...
whilst the overall payload appears to be far more 'generous', the 3850kg set up is only the light chassis 'maxed out' using the 1850kg (front) and 2000kg (rear) axle weights.....
so. from the axle perspectives, the margins do not change....and with these large vans, with large overhangs its that 2000kg limit that will breach first.
my own van was plated at 3850 on the light chassis, but our van has a shortish overhang and a A class cab which makes the front/rear weight distribution more balanced.
even running at around 3400kg (race. trim) we are nowhere near axle limits and the extra 350kg of payload could be made use of....not possible with these larger overhung layouts...
im still happy to run at 3.5t for the time being but I have plenty of options, with 120kg spare on the rear and 250kg on the front, another 350kg would make a usable difference...
i totally agree that any van of these proportions should be on the 'heavy ' chassis'....(like your own, as you say).
what's good in that case is that, for someone needing to run a van at 3.5t the 'heavy' van can be downplated yet retain the extra capacity of those increased axle weights....
a simple change that would alleviate many of the potential rear axle issues.....
i believe AS runs its 6.36m PVC versions with the increased axle weights and can be specced to 3.5t for older (or younger) drivers...
even these can be tricky at 3.5t due to longer overhangs...
there are two downsides that come to mind...
firstly, cost.....this would add to any vehicle thus equipped (over a light equivalent).....but by how much I can't say.....probably varies by manufacturer....
secondly, weight....the heavy chassis comes with larger 16" wheels, has larger brakes and meatier construction which adds around 40kg to the MIRO.
while potentially dealing with the axle weight issue, this then puts the focus back on the overall weight, where running at 3.5t now becomes 40kg more difficult....
there is no one answer to this, but I do feel that particular vans, like the 599 and similar can put customers in a very tricky position of they aren't fully on top of understanding the issues and pitfalls.
im also sure that many dealers don't get into the necessary conversations with potential customers early enough in the process as it would scare the hell out of them.....
happy travelling, Bill
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just having another look...the 597 Lounge auto (two travelling seats) has only 195kg on the 3500 chassis, again no passenger, no water...(need to allow another 165kg).....so, 30kg left but rear axle limit almost certainly blown.
the 597 and 599 (both four travelling seats) actually weighs 50kg and 30kg more respectively (the extra weight of the travelling seats) so effectively have only 145kg/165kg 'payload'
so how can (effectively) the same van with the same chassis but weighing 50kg more for the seats and 100kg extra for two kids possibly be carried legally?
...the answer is, they can't.
now the sneaky bit...
they have exactly the same chassis, with the same physical axle limits but have been 'paper upgraded' (no physical changes) to 3850kg providing an extra 350kg of 'payload' to 'allow the carrying of extra passengers'.
but the same rear axle was already maxed out on a similar van before the extra 150kg was added.....
hmmmmm......how does that work?
im wondering if these vans were weighed, factory fresh with fuel, gas, driver, passenger and water, whether the would actually still be legal (rear axle) with nothing else in them...?
next time I'm at Highbridge I might ask them to get the weighing pads out.....
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Off topic but relevant in the discussion.
the tyre pressures quoted on the door pillar of the Rapido will probably given as 70psi. Thes pressures can make the ride and handling quite harsh and tooth rattling.
it would pay to contact the tyre manufacturers (probably Michein) quoting the max axle loads quoted on the plate under the bonnet. (Probably 2000 kg rear 1850kg front) and ask what the pressures should be for the size and grade of tyres fitted.
If get weighed at a weigh bridge, you ,hopefully will have lower axle weights. So quoting those would do no harm.
You may find that the pressures can be dropped giving a much smoother ride.
My pressures are 65 front 70 rear. Before I changed tyres the were 60 front 65 rear. Made quite a difference in the ride over the 70 as recommended by Fiat.
Rgds
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I disagree, the canopy is our MOST used accessory, not so much for the Sun but as Rain protection, well strapped down and tilted to allow water to run off. It is perfect for feeding the dog under, whatever the weather, also to towel her off so we dont get a wet dog straight into the van.
Wouldnt now have a van without one. Oh yes, they are handy if the Sun does suddenly decide to shine as well.
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I agree Canopy is a must... Had 3 motor homes with one on but when we purchased our last one 2017 decided against the expense....Big mistake...only travel in Great Britain but this year cant say how many times we said..Big mistake...Going in next week to have one fitted while its habitation takes place.
Go for it and then your ready to enjoy the summer of 2019.
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Personally I love my Fiamma (other are just as good) and use it on almost every site. I went the whole hog and got sides & front too, they've been used once! I consider them a complete waste of money, but the basic canopy I would not be without, particularly if going over the channel. I have the luxury of a heavy chassis Rapido so weight is realistically no issue.
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I wouldn't be without, we don't always wind it out all the way, even less than a metre forms that little bit of shelter when it's drizzly. We will wind out fully and cook outside in the rain when needed. Can in these instances be used with out legs although watch on some where door can foul the canopy. We have learnt to travel as light as possible having been pulled over by the police and escorted to the weighbridge. We were very lucky but it was a wake up and a very useful experience after the event of course!
Also taking of winding all the way out, be careful not to wind out all the way as this can cause issues when winding back in. The advice given to us was don't go beyond the patterning on the 'roof' material. You can, but care is needed, on a couple of occasions I've spent some time helping a fellow MHers who had gone past the point of 'no' return.
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Sorry, just reiterate that you can leave legs up when extended less than a metre. Don't try when 'fully' extended!
Also, we always wind in at night as even that doldrum day can change very quickly and it's a real pain when tucked up in bed with the clattering keeping you awake and the thought of the thing going over the roof. Not mine, but I've seen one do this and the damage was not limited to the awning itself!
Each to their own mind of course, but peace of mind matters for us!
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