New and need advice

Will Webb
Will Webb Forum Participant Posts: 1
edited July 2018 in New to Caravanning & Touring #1

Good afternoon all

First post since joining, so please go easy on me smile

Firstly I apologise in advance for all of the questions; I've been reading so many different articles that I'm starting to doubt myself and just want a general consensus from the masses.

My wife and I are looking to purchase our first caravan; a Coachman Amara 560/6 2008

Our tow car will be a 2017 Mini Countryman ALL4 John Cooper Works; so a petrol 4x4

  1. Am I right in thinking our car and van combination is a viable one?
    The Mini's chassis plate weights are 2130kg (Gross Vehicle/MTPLM), and 4005kg (Gross Train).  The manual states a max braked towing weight of 1800kg.
    The caravans weights are 1284kg (MRO), and 1500kg (MTPLM)
  2. Am I right in thinking that the above combination would exceed the 3500kg limit on my driving license?
  3. Am I also right in thinking that if the above is correct, then I would need to take the 'Trailer Test' in order to be able to tow?
  4. As I understand it I can tow a caravan over 750kg in weight, on my post-2003 driving license, providing the total train weight is less than 3500kg, and the Gross Train weight of the car (4005kg)?

Again, apologies for the questions - I've just got rather confused by the lingo and rules

Thanks

William

 

Ps; I have tried to contact the technical advice line this afternoon and it's been unavailable.  The online matching system also doesn't list the Mini, so that avenue has been fruitless...

Comments

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,135 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2018 #2

    Without knowing when you passed your test and what licence you hold it’s difficult to know what your driving/towing entitlement is. Check out this link -

    https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/advice-for-beginners/driving-licences/

    To be perfectly honest your car and caravan combination doesn’t strike me as a viable one but you need to consider the kerb weight of the car, which isn’t stated above, and the all up weight (MTPLM) of the van. It’s not law but the recommendation is that your match should be around 85%. Therefore, as the van weighs 1500kg, you will need a tow car with a kerb weight around 1760kg. 

    You will be in breach of the law with regard to the car's towing limits if you exceed the manufacturers stipulated max towing weight or the GTW. Be aware that the max towing weight of 1800kg will be a figure arrived at by the manufacturer in certain set conditions. It does not mean it is either safe or sensible to tow that weight on the road.

    You also need to consider what nose weight the car's max is and the nose weight of the caravan.

    The foregoing info all relates to the car and caravan combination and is nothing to do with your driving entitlement which is a separate issue and also needs to be complied with.

    Hope that helps.

  • Extugger
    Extugger Forum Participant Posts: 1,293
    1000 Comments
    edited July 2018 #3

    Mini & Coachman

    The towing limit is exceeded by 767 kg!
    It is not allowed to drive with this Coachman.
    Make sure the towing limit is correct.

    The conclusion is, if the Mini Cooper Countryman - SD [ALL4]and the Coachman Amara 560/6with a laden weight of 1567 kg, would be legally too heavy that it would be not a good match 

    This is from Towcar info. com

    As TW intimated previously, you may be in breach of the law and for your own and everyone else's safety, please have a rethink 

     

  • jennyc
    jennyc Forum Participant Posts: 957
    500 Comments
    edited July 2018 #4

    Ouch! Your Contryman sounds lovely with its Cooper Spec, and nearly new too. But I’m afraid that it’s not the tow car that you need for that weight of van. Think much smaller for your van, or much heavier for your car.

  • Waffler
    Waffler Forum Participant Posts: 149
    edited July 2018 #5

    Your licence means that the total maximum car weight and maximum caravan weight cannot be bigger than 3500lg.   The wording differ  between car manufacturers.  So find the biggest weight for the car, often max gross.(This will be on a plate in the car, possibly under the bonnet.) Take that from 3500 and then that is the MTPLM of the caravan you can have. The MTPLM will be on the plate by the door of the caravan.   Now find the kerb weight of the car- this definition varies, probably in the handbook or on the makers web site.  (If not try Honest John web site). Work out 85% of this. This figure is the recommended MTPLM of the caravan for safe towing. Two other figures to check- max tow weight of car and max tow ball weight. With all these numbers the rule is the lowest applies.  On tow ball weight  many caravans have a limit of 100 kg which often exceeds the car's limit so you may need to do careful loading. Sorry about all the maths.

  • crusader
    crusader Forum Participant Posts: 299
    100 Comments
    edited August 2018 #6

    which means his car is allowed by law to tow a trailer braked upto 1875kg I understand what fellow members are saying re the 85% rule and thats not a bad guide line for a novice again tow ball weights need to be taken into account, one thing that would concern me is does the car have enough power or will it struggle ?

  • Robidoo
    Robidoo Forum Participant Posts: 28
    edited August 2018 #7

    Not sure if it’s a match but the car sure has enough power I think it’s 215 or225bhp.

    my 67 plate Mini Countryman says max braked tow at 1500kgs . Mines the 2lt cooper TD kicks out about 190bhp reckon i’d Tow a 1500kg van v dry safely in it .

    Peeps probably don’t know but the 2017 on countryman is based on a BMW X1. Running gear so a lot bigger heavier than any other mini . 

    Not gonna tow with ours as i’ll Use my bmw but still think it would tow well 👍

  • lornalou1
    lornalou1 Forum Participant Posts: 2,169
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    edited August 2018 #8

    its got nothing to do with bhp but the more you have the better. the most important is the weight of car to the weight of van. don't have van heavier than vehicle pulling it.

  • Oneputt
    Oneputt Club Member Posts: 9,144 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2018 #9

    Petrol cooper works, wow, bet the mpg will suffer badly with the van hitched.  Btw do you know what the nose weight on the tow bar would be.

    what you need now is Lutz to come along and sort out the weights.

  • Robidoo
    Robidoo Forum Participant Posts: 28
    edited September 2018 #10

    Yes I know that lornalou.

    I was responding to the question about power only !

    As per my first line I don’t know if it’s a match. 

     

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
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    edited September 2018 #11

    Presumably if you think that 'the more you have the better' you would seem to suggest that 'it' does have something to do with BHP

  • IanBHawkes
    IanBHawkes Forum Participant Posts: 212
    100 Comments
    edited September 2018 #12

    One website I looked at recommends a maximum 1200kg. For the size of the car that is as big as I would go. 

  • lornalou1
    lornalou1 Forum Participant Posts: 2,169
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    edited September 2018 #13

    I think you know what I mean ETundecided

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
    1000 Comments
    edited September 2018 #14

    I take it that you mean BHP is important but not the only considerstion

  • Lutz
    Lutz Forum Participant Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018 #15

    The manual and the plate don't seem to agree with one another. 4005kg (gross train weight) - 2130kg (gross vehicle weight) = 1875kg, but the manual states 1800kg. Weird that because normally, if anything, the stated towing limit is greater than the difference between gross train weight and gross vehicle weight. Anyway, it is only of academic interest if you've ony got a Category B licence, which would limit you to a trailer with an MTPLM of 3500 - 2130 = 1370kg.

    I don't want to get involved in any discussions about weight ratios because that usually ends up in needless debate. Suffice to say the all-up weight of the caravan should be as low as reasonably possible compared with the kerbweight of the car. With a gross vehicle of 2130kg, the kerbweight is likely to be around 1600 to 1650kg so a caravan in line with your B licence limit would sound about right. At a pinch I'd go along with the caravan that you have got your eye on, but of course that would mean having to do a Category B+E licence.

  • Cartledge
    Cartledge Forum Participant Posts: 267
    100 Comments
    edited September 2018 #16

    Aside from the weight issue, BHP is important yes, but (sorry to bring in another measure) but torque is more important. If your car is highly tuned (a Cooper marque probably is) and develops its best bhp at high revs, then it will not be good for towing. You need low rev "grunt" to tow properly. That's why diesels have proved popular with caravanners, as their engine speeds are low and their power is developed at low engine speed. 

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