The Future?
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I agree with peedee. Hydrogen will be a very difficult infrastructure switch, electricity much easier but still with huge problems no matter what the government or greenies say.
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There is a strong body of opinion that Hydrogen fuel cells will be the next big development. You can see that with a range of 300 km and only 4.5kg of fuel there is much potential. My view is that battery technology is improving so rapidly and the infrastructure for charging having such a big investment, Hydrogen will get left behind. We shall see over the next 5 years.
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….and hydrogen does not grow on trees!
You typically have to steam reform Methane (natural gas), creating hydrogen and CO2 (CH4 + H2O → CO + 3 H2 then CO + H2O → CO2 + H2)
or by produce it by electrolysis using electricity generated from, in part, burning fossil fuels!
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There are other methods of production, some in their infancy but nevertheless worth research.
https://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_production.html
Admittedly early days but that goes for many technological advances we've witnessed this last 50 years!
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Batteries have only made small steps in development and are still not flexible enough for most users. If you add the fact that our electrical infrastructure is on its knees and could not possibly take another 10% of demand never mind the huge increases if everyone goes electric then it really is politicians talking utter rubbish when they say the are banning this and banning that. Without total new grid and distribution that is ground up planned then battery charging for all is a pipe dream that could not be delivered in the next 10 years. And even if it is then at times of demand we still burn fossil to charge the green vehicles.
My own view is that electrically driven range extended vehicles will become the norm in the short term, 200 mile per gallon diesels etc. Proper hybrids, not the tax dodging excuses for hybrids currently being sold.
I also think fuel cell has a bigger future than most are looking at, in what form is still up in the air but you can buy them now.
I don't understand why gas never made it, cheap, cleaner, good range, proven technology, relatively cheap to fit to existing technology.
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The future -- I see a greater market for much smaller motorhomes and also Van conversions using whatever the latest battery power is available. Hybrid vehicles still use fossil fuels so they will die out. Camping sites will have electric charge points on pitches. The future looks bright for those of us who tour by Motorhome.
K
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Hybrid vehicles still use fossil fuels so they will die out
Do you really believe that by 2040 we will leave billions of barrels oil or billions of cubic meters of gas in the ground, think that is it a bit of naive thinking.
An example, the Leman gas field which I worked on for about 40 years had a 25 year production life, in the 1990's new survey and extraction technology, directional drilling, sub-sea well heads, unmanned platforms etc., came along and production life was extended by 30 years. This happens all the time.
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My car has a small cooling system leak and a small oil leak. I fill it up at a garage where refined fuel is delivered by tankers which create pollution and clog up the roads. The fuel supply is susceptible to oil price rises and industrial action. The thought of an electric car with no engine sump etc. and which can be charged cheaply off-peak is very appealing.
People are underestimating the speed of the transition and the enormous investments being made by industry and government to make it happen. Modern day luddites perhaps?
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Charging cars cheaply won`t last five minutes anymore than cheaper road tax for non polluting cars did. Lost fuel tax has to be replaced, perhaps thats where the Smart Meter comes in, low cost overnight electricity at a high VAT rate perhaps? you can be sure they`ll be someone working on it right now.
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As a general observation, this is such a fast changing and developing field, and really needs to be, so there is going to be very fast obsolescence.
Consequently with that will come massive depreciation on the earlier "attempts" so we will not be investing in anything till the picture becomes a great deal clearer; unless we are held to ransom that is.
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The lack of profitability of the Tesla car company is causing much concern. They were the leaders in high quality Electric cars and the infrastructure to support them. Perhaps the Electric car revolution will not be quite as soon as predicted.
K
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To counter that people are buying such cars on PCP where the trade in price is quaranteed. You know exactly what it will cost.
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Still not sure how these folk will charge their electric cars
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Talking about massive depreciation I think it applies to most cars, especially diesels. We part xd to get our pre-reg EV, wouldn't even consider pcp as we wanted the residual value to be ours. We now have six hybrid/Ev cars in our small village. I don't think our car has lost much value as there aren't enough around just now. When production costs go down and volume goes up there will probably be more interest and lower pricing.
The technology to install charge points is there, just as it was for cable TV, I expect a lot of terraced houses have fibre cable so a few more cables won't hurt.
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The technology to install charge points is there, just as it was for cable TV, I expect a lot of terraced houses have fibre cable so a few more cables won't hurt. wink
One of the problems with many terraced streets is that you can't always park adjacent to your property. Maybe EV cars need a 25m EHU cable
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I think the idea is that in the future we're not too dependent on other countries supplying us with fuel and I'm glad to see new developments. We can't stand still with present finite resources in the UK.
So I agree with you Hitchglitch.
I know history shows us that the combustion engine was thought never to be any good by some. This might include the famous quote from a banker to Henry Ford that "the horse was here to stay."
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Yes, there is a plan that any new street lamp installed should be fitted with a charging point.
I used to visit Norway on business and noticed that all car parks at offices had electric points at each space. This was to plug in the sump heaters to keep the engine oil warm but it’s not much of a stretch of the imagination to envisage charging points for EVs at all car parks.
Once a government decides to embrace and subsidise a new technology you can be assured it’s going to happen. When, not if.
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There is one fundamental issue that most are choosing to ignore.
The generating capacity in the UK is on its knees. Projection for 15 years time is for lights out scenario based on current usage. The only possible saviour was nuclear 10 years ago, this did not happen. Our current nuclear capacity is now aged and heading towards redundancy.
Nobody is building new power stations, wind and solar can not be left alone to supply as they are variable. The grid is creaking.
Adding another 50 million 2kw chargers to the grid is just not an option. The infrastructure just does not exist and there are no plans to make it exist. There is no plan from government to make this happen.
As it is currently fossil fuelled vehicles are the most efficient least polluting transport available. Electric cars are not zero emission, they are deferred emission. If the government set policy by listening to engineers and scientists instead of spouting unfounded rubbish then we might get somewhere.
Electric is a big part of the solution but not if there is no generating infrastructure to supply it.
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I don't really see how street lights every 30m (say) are going to greatly improve the situation. They are also usually on the back of the footway in many such areas in order to give clearance from the highway whilst maintaining footway width.
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We have a massive new replacement nuclear power station going up at Hinkley Point, here in Somerset. It has cost far too much but it's going ahead. If you look at the National Grid web site you'll see what is being done for the future. Last winter we had two days when output came from renewables, this is something which will increase.
Unfortunately emissions from fossil fuels have gone up rather than down despite efforts to improve the situation. This is why the gov. are increasing efforts to encourage alternatives.
Incidentally our EV is built in a non conventional way including plant based fibres. The vehicle is 95% recyclable and the emissions from the rex (the tiny petrol engine which recharges the battery on the move) produces minimal particulates. The rex negates the need for frequent electrical charging most of the time the vehicle is in use, even on relatively long journeys.
I feel if people really looked at up to date information about power and EVs they may find their opinions will change and see the future benefits.
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Not ideal but better than nothing and should be easy to do EasyT
Not easy to do at all When much of the terraced properties were built what services would have been laid in the footway? Maybe gas, water and electric. Now there is telephone, cable and no doubt heavier electric cable in the footways as well.
Most lighting columns where there are terraced properties and in most other residential areas are at the back of footway unless the footway is particulariy wide. There are many footways in many terraced property areas areas that are only 5' wide (and less) that is1500mm. Street furniture is sited to give a minimum 450mm clearance from the carriageway edge. If we say that a lighting column is around 300mm wide this only gives a footway width of 750mm. minimum access width for a wheelchair is 800mm.
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A close friend has a "Tesla S" and is delighted with it's convenience, performance and comfort. One downside is that it is not "Type Approved" ( if that's the official term) for towing in the UK. So it ain't a tow car. Only a problem for Tuggers.
K
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For those of us who might like to tow vans with an EV this is the development we are waiting for in the uk. Hybrids can tow. My OH has spoken to a lot of people in the industry and USA about this but we're still waiting for news.
Apologies, going off tack a bit as the OP talks about motorhomes and that will be an interesting step forward too.
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I think that’s fake news. The studies that I have seen by National Grid show that there is a very small increase in infrastructure needed and with the advent of smart meters etc. charging can be deferred to off-peak times.
With regard to pollution, it is much easier to control this at the original location where the pollution occurs such as the factory or power station. Much more difficult to control at the individual user end.
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Ah yes smart meters. Good job we all got them before 2010 as planned by the government and the power industry working together. By the way this fiasco is for a far simpler meter than would be needed for EV charging. That meter or the associated technology does not yet exist, has no protocol agreed between all the stakeholders and no specification.
Oh no sorry only 10% have smart meters and those that do find that they don't work if you change electricity supplier and that virtually all that have been fitted to date will need to be changed. But never mind I am sure they will work it out eventually. They are taring up the plan and starting again, should all be sorted in a decade or five.
Fake news hey, well we can all charge off peak. Apart from the 60% of the population who have no parking at their residence. So we only need 10 million street side charging points for which no feasible cost effective design currently exists.
According to the web, "The total number of UK locations which have a public charging point installed (6057), the number of devices at those locations (10184) and the total number of connectors within these devices (17455)".
So to summarise my fake news, we can all rely on the smart meters. These are not the smart meters that are decades late already and don't work but the ones that do not even have a concept proposal yet. Should be sorted soon then.
Also, since the concept of EV charging we have managed to fit 17455 charging points in the whole of the UK. We only need 10 million more to service the charging needs of 30% of UK vehicles.
"National Grid show that there is a very small increase in infrastructure required", really, do you actually believe this government sponsored garbage.
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