Nose weight too high
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gas bottles in the bathroom.....?.....don't do it....
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It seems to me that many of you underestimate the competence of caravan manufacturers. Caravan stability has come a long way over the years through design improvements. While far from the efficiency of many contemporary cars, caravan aerodynamics in terms of stability at speed, have improved. Manufacturers know that most towing will be undertaken with a laden caravan, which includes gas bottles, batteries clothes, food, utensils, bedding etc. So it would be pointless to build caravans which have good balance when empty, but we’re so out of balance when laden that they were unfit for purpose. An obsession with keeping cargo in front of the axle but accepting that it’s OK to build vans which are heavy at the rear (possibly by moving the axle forward) isn’t good science. A van which is sensibly loaded by their customers needs to show a noseweight of around 75kg when ready for towing - ours does despite its high noseweight when empty. If we ever need to tow it empty we’ll correct the balance by adding a couple of very heavy items such as our awning, behind the axle. In an ideal world, items with varying weight such as toilet waste tanks and gas bottles would sit over the axle - but a little consideration will clarify the truth that the Kg involved are trivial by comparison to the whole weight of a laden caravan, which can nonetheless by balanced by shifting its internal contents. Even moving our EHU cable makes a difference.
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if moving an EHU cable (or bedding or a small gas bottle to the shower!!, or bikes, or emptying the hot water tank, or the toilet flush, or .......) really has the sort of (safety?) implications as posted in this thread then surely towing is a tricky (interesting?) exercise?
caravanners must be horrified to hear that MHs just drive off with 120+ ltr of water on board, two 11kg gas bottles, electric bikes, wine, bike batteries and chargers, clothes, wine, tables, chairs, wine, twin leisure batteries, solar panels, wine, satellite systems, two TVs, wine, a garage full of tools, hoses, leads, associated gadgets.....oh and wine.....
when we leave a site/aire we just turn the key and go.....to have to consider moving bedding or my EHU cable (really??) or ditching water from the hot tank would be a right PITA......and certainly not conducive to the type of spontaneous touring we (and many others) appreciate.
yes, we have an overall MTPLM and axle weights to consider, but margins wouldn't be so tight as to warrant moving a cable to avoid issues.....
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A van which is sensibly loaded by their customers needs to show a noseweight of around 75kg when ready for towing.
Ours is a much more stable tow with a noseweight of 90kg. As that is within the spec of our tow vehicle, that's what we aim for. Fortunately for us that's more or less what it ends up at with normal loading.😀
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Yes BB but your m/home is not balancing on two wheels but stabilised on 4 spread at a long distance.
so weight distribution is not so critical.
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It's not really an issue once you have sorted it out once BB. Certainly not with a 100kg hitch limit on the tow car. Although it did require a little more thought when we had 75kg.
We are looking at switching to a MH for the convienience of touring reason. However, problems with achieving the required hitch load are just a minor inconvenience.
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I think we all know the differences between MHs and caravans, BB.
Perhaps, as you’ve never had a Caravan, you haven’t fully appreciated the art of loading, hitching and towing until now. We’ve taught you something
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No problem with resiting gas bottles - provided one fits an additional set of the securing straps, which might be a bit unsightly when not towing. Also, increased floor ventilation to "drain" any gas that leaks.
Same applies when carrying cylinders in the tow vehicle (unless in back of a pick-up).
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hardly.....other than reinforcing that it's another thing I'm glad I don't have to give too much thought to....
as you say, perhaps more of an art than a science.....surely the wrong way around?
but when I see comments like the position of an EHU cable 'making a difference' ISTM the tolerances between a decent tow and not might be too fine....
as said, its actual weight is a drop in the ocean but to suggest its position (actually) affects towing can only mean (too me) the unit is too sensitive to tiny variations...
remind me to overtake any caravan with bikes on the rear rack....just about every Dutch unit we've seen....
good luck out there, safe travelling....
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I think a smiley is req if you think moving the EHU cable is going to make a difference that will affect the nose weight to any effect
And if seeing what a lot of people seem to carry in the front locker is anything to go by ,then nosewights are way down the list of priorities
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but when I see comments like the position of an EHU cable 'making a difference' ISTM the tolerances between a decent tow and not might be too fine....
When I see such a comment (don't think I have ever seen that particular one) I simply think he position of such an item is not of itself critical. The overall loading may be although I have never had to faff other than to pack as I desire as that has always produced a suitable noseweight.
The only time that I have 'faffed' is the one occasion when towing 150 miles with an unladen caravan as I knew that the noseweight would be around 65kg and rather too low unladen. OK for a run at service time at speeds around 50mph but a bit light for the 150 mile motorway run to Alde UK. I loaded a couple of plastic storage boxes inside caravan to add noseweight. Always flicked switch to drain hot water though as not much of a task
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BB, spontaneous?, it sounds like the spontaneity goes out the window to ensure you get the quickest route between wine stores😂😂
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lol Rocky....the distance between two wine stores is very short....from the underfloor locker amidships to the garage in the rear.... not very far.....but we do spontaneously grab stock from one or t'other
DD, 'twas actually G&T last weekend in Minehead for a change...
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Actually, a EHU cable weighs about 3.6kg. Reduce that to an effective additional nose weight of 1.8Kg if carried between the front seats, half way between the hitch and the axle. Now move it a similar distance to the rear and your noseweight will reduce by 3.6Kg. Move a couple of chairs and maybe a windbreak and you’ll very quickly slice/ add 10Kg or more to the noseweight when balancing your van. And nose weights under 75kg make quite a difference to towing stability. 100Kg would be perfect if you car is built to take it. 65K is too light for comfort at 75Kg things start to get better. Didn’t you know that moving a few small items made such a difference?
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I think you may need a refresher course in physics, look up moments and centres of gravity
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I did and it made no sense, well you're almost there but a bit short.
if you could - I'd get your money back from that school
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isn't the weight more car dependent? My previous car had 75Kg, now 100Kg, so manufactures would have to know all possiblr towcars? Or are you saying the makers should know what the noseweight would be on an empty caravan?
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As I said, “ex-works”, so yes, empty van. It might well be useful to know in advance what the noseweight is of an unladen van is. My choice of van might well have been different if I’d realised what the unladen noseweight was, at around 110kgs. In another thread I was advised to try to get it down to around 75-80kgs, which takes some doing. In fact, I haven’t as yet been able to.
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Thanks. This does mean then that my (unladen) van is already over it’s allowed noseweight. I think the point I was trying to make is that if manufacturers published the ex-works noseweight, they might make a bit more effort to balance things up a bit.
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It would be nice to know what your empty van’s ex works noseweight is, but it’s not showstoppingly important when a conventionally loaded van is the critical point. There are plenty of light aircraft which rely on the pilot’s weight in the approved location, to achieve a safe balance in flight. And no one worries about that. It’s the ‘in service’ weight distribution which needs attention - unless you are towing an empty van.
over heavy or excessively light hitch weights can be a bit disconcerting if you are collecting an empty van though.
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