Taking Deposits - OK for CLs?
I know that this has been discussed 'as nauseam' in the past, but I came upon a different twist on this subject. Whilst browsing for a CL, I came upon one which had the following comment on their website:
"We, along with many other CL’s, have suffered very badly in the past with no shows and late cancellations. Reluctantly therefore, following Caravan Club advice, we now take card payment in full at the time of booking. We apologise for this inconvenience caused by those members amongst us who are less considerate. Cancellations with up to 4 weeks notice will receive a full refund, cancellation within the last 4 weeks receive no refund, although if we manage to re – let the pitches we may offer refunds as a gesture of good will."
It's fascinating that the Club can provide this advice to a CL to limit the number of 'No-Shows' that they are experiencing, whilst refusing the use the same system for its own sites
Comments
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I guess it's because the Club doesn't have the facility to monitor the details of every CL where each individual CL has it's own system for booking and paying. If you book a main CAMC site, it is all on the same booking system, therefore you can do things like not allowing members to book different sites on the same date. They can also monitor things like no shows and cancellations (where the same rules apply across the network). The system is then able to send out automated letters if people fall foul of the booking system, and presumably flags up members who are taking advantage of the no deposit system.
Each CL is like an small individual commercial site with its own rules and restrictions.
David
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It’s completely understandable, I think.
CLs are, by their very nature, small 5 van sites and a late cancellation or no show will leave a large hole in their takings, percentage wise.
The club, on the other hand, is a large business with many, many pitches and, while late cancellations and no shows are not good, they are unlikely to result in financial hardship. In fact, from what we hear, people are queuing up to grab late cancellation slots on some sites.
In short, CLs can suffer greatly from late cancellations and no shows but the club is not similarly affected due to the larger scale of operations so has no need to apply similar rules.
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We've got bookings at 2 CLs over the next month or so. One has taken a small deposit and one has not. Can't say that a small deposit has ever put me off but that statement (italicised in the OP) would certainly make me think twice.
On the only occasion we've ever had to cancel a CL at short notice I felt so guilty I sent the full payment anyway!
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While I don’t object to paying deposits and can understand and the reasoning behind them as per my earlier post, I like to check the terms and to be perfectly honest the sentence ".....if we manage to re – let the pitches we may offer refunds as a gesture of good will" puts me right off. Will they or won’t they? That is not clear and the operator should make his terms absolutely transparent.
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I don't doubt the OP's post as written by him but how do we know that the CL owner is telling the whole truth to him? Not just using the club 'advice' as an excuse? It could have been 'well you could try this' sort of thing.
It's fascinating that the Club can provide this advice to a CL to limit the number of 'No-Shows' that they are experiencing, whilst refusing the use the same system for its own sites
well two things here spring to mind, firstly the club has a powerful backup if you are a no show which a single private CL cannot match, the club can (and has) suspend your membership, cancel all your bookings. The club has your details it knows where you live. What could a single CL do with it's limited resources?
Secondly the does not have a problem with no shows, it has stated this number is very small in the first instance and when it adotpd the current system no shows actually went down significantly. Why should it change a system that works very well for itself?
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+1
That CL would (if I used CLs) certainly not get my custom with it's non refundable system. Four weeks is too long. But then I don't run a CL or need the money if I were to run one.
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Cl's are small businesses and can not afford to lose money by no-shows. Access to Cl's are the only reason that many people pay the 51 quid to the CMC. (But that's a different subject. ). IMHO payment in full at the time of booking, which we have done on many occasions, is the way to go, to maintain that excellent CL network.
K
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The main reason the club can show late availabilty on it's own sites is that it has an on line booking system, how many CL have this? quite a few but many do not? Of the ones that do they would then have to link somehow their system into the clubs, and what about the ones that do not? How will the club get this information? The club could give access to the CL's to it's own system, is that what you are suggesting?
Of course if CL's pay a fee for which they are not getting a return on, at the risk of sounding bullying, they do not have to pay?
Anyway why would they want to be part of such a dishonest and decieftul organsiation?
(Ok i'll stop doing that)0 -
On the subject of no shows, would it be beyond the capability of the club to take similar action to that on main club sites? If CL owners were able to report it then some sort of record should be possible. Seems to me to be one way in which the club could effectively show support for CL owners.
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We are making the Cl system more difficult. Whilst I have never been "a non shower" I rarely book any time ahead and never let down a Cl. Would be wary of using any on line payment system(how do I know how secure any Cl owners system is?) and still believe in "cash is King" when I turn up.
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that would work better - a good idea
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When I used to rent out my spanish apartment, I took a deposit with the balance due six weeks before the booking started. In the same way cancelled CL bookings can be difficult to fill at relatively short notice and can, as has been pointed out, have significant impact on an owners income.
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Pray tell us about "the money" the club extracts from CL operators?
JK
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you mean there isn't any?
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Personally, I would like a comment from one of the Club's own staff as to whether the statement made by the CL is factual. Do the club give this advice out to CL owners. I use CLs quite a bit and have not heard of this advice coming from the CMC.
Can a staff member clarify please.
Edit - Can someone maybe report my post to get it noticed?
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+ 1 and done
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BnV, this is definitely the exception to to the rule. We've not been ask for or paid a deposit on any of the 11 CLs that we've used or have booked on our current trip. I have no objection to paying a relatively small deposit for a stay on a CL but would certainly shy away from any that ask for full payment up front.
I'll ask the owner of the CL we're on at the moment if he has been given this advice from HO when I speak with him tomorrow.
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Out of interest BV, would you care to name the CL who's website you stumbled on?
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Sure - it was the Durham Rowing Club; you can find the info within the club CL database, but the section I found the data is on their website at https://www.durham-arc.org.uk/facilities/caravan-site/
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That is a very popular little site indeed. Location is very busy. If they are experiencing no shows there, I am not surprised they are taking payment up front. "On advice of Club" might just mean they have asked Club what to do for the best, and decided that this is the policy they want to follow. It's a site we have looked around, and following a very positive review by a trusted member, definitely one we will consider in the future, up front payment or not!
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I tend to agree. If a CL were to consult the Club on this situation I am sure they would discuss a range of options including taking deposits or full payment on booking which the CL in question is perfectly entitled to do. The customer can always refuse and go elsewhere.
I also suspect that when challenged on their policy of taking full payment on booking it is an easy deflection to suggest it was on the advice of the Club, probably ignoring the fact that, that was one of several options discussed. The Club didn't make the decision the CL did.
David
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You have explained things better than I did DK!
We used to use the same very popular Cornish CL every year, and I made a point of paying in full before we arrived most years. The only time in our twelve years of using this particular CL that we had to cancel at short notice, I rang to apologise and said we had been called home urgently. The CL were more than happy to refund us the nights they were able to relet, we were fine about them taking the money where they couldn't. It was a booking for a month, and that is a lot for a small CL to lose. They knew we were committed to our bookings, no matter the weather, and unlikely to cancel on a whim. Respect on both sides of the booking.
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Talking today to the owner of the CL where I'm staying, and he has had no such advice from his site inspector. He thinks that if it was the club that gave the "advice" it would have been one of the options that they'd put forward. However it could be that the site inspector was just being overzealous. It would seem that they have been "encouraged" to recruit more new CLs, because of the number that are disappearing, and that advice could be one way of ensuring the a CL remains in the system.
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That is a site we have considered in the past, but not used as yet. Considered as the nearby Club site is generally very expensive. However, if those are now the conditions we would not consider booking it.
We would not use any site that wanted full payment up front, especially if there was no refund available for cancelling well ahead.
When we book any site, we do genuinely intend to take up the booking, but life happens. We like to sort our bookings well ahead, but at our age (75+) there can be no guarantees that we will actually be alive in a few months time!
Right now, we are in good health, we have booked sites right up till October and we have booked a ferry crossing (refundable). We are optomists.
However......there is not just us to consider, we have children and grandchildren. After we organised our trips for this year, number 2 child unexpectedly decided to buy a new house, they will move in July.
Having just produced a grandchild for us in March, this move will seriously involve a lot of help from us, so we have had to alter some holiday plans, well ahead of the booking of course.
We have had to cancel 1 CL, move the dates on another, and cancel a CCC site, all with far more than 6 weeks notice, which in June/July I would think to be adequate notice for the sites to get the pitch booked.
None of the other CLs we will use have asked for any payments.
We are not adverse to a say 25%deposit, but full payment up front would put us off a site.
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