Land Rover DPF issues
My car has been with my dealer for nearly 4 weeks waiting for Land Rover to authorise a warranty replacement of the DP Filter following an amber warning followed within 2 miles of a red Filter full warning.
Land Rover assist were called late afternoon and arrived close to 5.00pm .Checks carried out showed that the filter was at a level that could be regenerated by the technician. However as it was late in his shift, he was not able to do so as it was time to go home. He advised it would be ok to drive 4 miles home and his colleague would attend first thing the following day. The second technician ran some tests and found the filter now to blocked to carry out a re-gen and the car would need to be transported to the dealer where it still sits.
I was advised by the dealer that the filter would need to be replaced and it would be very expensive, Land Rover were asked to cover the cost of replacement but after three weeks of claiming that no case had been raised, they declined claiming that the cause was the driving style and that diesel cars are purchased by people intending to drive at 70mph for long periods.
I have had the car for 2 years without an issue, so doubt very much if the driving style is the issue or it would have surfaced earlier.
I would be very interested to hear specifically from and member who has had similar experience with a Land Rover. I am looking for supporting evidence that Land Rover are using this excuse to avoid warranty claims, as there appears to be some accounts online.
Very grateful for only Land Rover related replies in this case.
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I agree, can't imagine those London Taxi's being expected run at 70 mph.
Thanks DD, I have looked into the internet posts, but I was wondering if members were aware or had experienced this issue. I had not previously known about it. Seems that LR have problems that have not become well known so far.
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It used to be a problem up to about five years ago since then most manufacturers have changed their designs and I have`nt seen much about it. Its the reason why the new MOT rules include more attention to the DPF. Unless LR specifically exclude it in their Warranty Terms and Conditions I don`t see how they can really try to make out its not a failure and for something costing in the region of £1000 its worth arguing about.
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DPF failure is a common problem across all marques, not just L/R. Low speed and low mileage use adds to the problem as does use of supermarket fuel. There is a company which chemically cleans DPF’s at a fraction of replacement cost however the best way to minimise future problems is always use VPower/Ultimate type fuels and unless your normal driving pattern regularly involves a long high speed journey (30 miles), give the car an Italian tune up once a month.
Might be worth contacting Honest John for advice regarding a case for L/R contributing to replacement of the DPF.
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There are a coupleof issues here, first the amber light turned red in under 4 miles which made it impossible to carry out the recommended 30minute drive cycle. The hand book states if the amber light comes on that a lengthy drive will clear the filter and if you ignore the light, eventually it will turn red, not 4 miles
Second, Land Rover assist's first technician told me it would be safe to drive it home and would not cause problems while the second technician attended the following day. LR then told me this damaged the filter and it needed replacement at over £3k.
If either the warning mechanism had worked properly and in good time, or the Land Rover technician had completed the task on the first visit, then the filter would not need to be replaced.
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Sorry Flatcoat, re-read my last post and realised it looks like I ignored your advise, which was not intended.
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No worries, I could see what you were getting at! However I would also speak with an independant L/R specialist and look at FL2 Forum for guidance too. When i had a problem with my now departed FL2 the dealers told me it needed a new ECU, somehow having diagnosed the car without even putting it onto the diagnostics.... I had the car transported home and it turned out to be the key which needed reprogramming.... so I would not be taking the dealers advice without a second opinion.
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Hi Flatcoat.
Good news, I went to the dealership today in the hope of resolving the problem without having to shell out hard earned cash. I was told that they would fix it today free of charge. It appears that putting the car onto another computer gave a much lower reading which allowed a re- generation to take place which unblocked the filter and coupled with a new sensor, all should be well.
Fingers crossed, picked up the car late afternoon.
By the way, what is an Italian tune up?
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Basically ..... give it a blast up the motorway 😉
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That clearly didn't work.
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It is more of a preventative measure than a cure. Unless you drive regularly on the m/way at speed, the best itslian tune up is to drive for at least 20 miles and keeping the revs upwards of 3000rpm (hold in a lower gear). As referred to earlier use premium fuels and the occasional bottle of Millers or Forte fuel system cleaner (or better still separate injector, turbo and DPF cleaner in each of 3 successive tanks) will also help keep the engine in optimum condition. The added cost of premium fuel and cleaners is less than replacing the DPF, turbo, EGR or injectors...
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It all seems a bit extreme for a modern Diesel engine, what a pallava☹️
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Glad you are sorted - but did it really take a JLR dealer nearly four weeks to do that? I can find you a more efficient one down here.
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It is upto you but in my view (formed after driving diesels for 31 years, about 700,000 miles and owning about 30 different ones in that time - but what do I know) very necessary for a modern diesel if you want to keep engine in optimum condition and avoid costly repair bills.... modern diesels are very sophisticated engines with complex control systems. All unlike 31 years ago when I started dieseling with a 1.6D Passat which would run perfectly fine on neat chip fat oil and any other rubbish fuel i could find. However If you are the sort of owner who does 10k miles a year tootling around you run a very high chance of DPF and other problems. And if like me you drive 20K+ miles a year and keep your car a long time (200k miles) it will still reduce the likelihood and expense of fuel pump, EGR, DPF, injector problems at high mileage....
As for efficient JL/R dealers i am sure they exist.....somewhere.... personally i would find a good independant specialist who knows what they are doing, rather than simply relying on 'the computer says....'.
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I’m in my 6th year with my DPF fitted vehicle, I don’t thrash it, I’ve put nothing but S/mkt fuel in it, yet it runs like a dream. So well that I’ve not changed it after 3/4yrs as I usually do. I don’t doubt you are knowledgeable about Diesels FC just not every Diesel would be my guess👍🏻🤔.
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Had three new Landrovers and all with DPF's, the last one when I took early retirement and that meant tootling around country roads for two years, sometimes less than 30 minutes in time.
Never had a DPF warning either when working or in retirement, and never had or needed to force a regeneration. Seems to me a dodgy sensor gave a dodgy signal that the DPF had no need of a regeneration, when it actually needed one and consequently ruined the filter.
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We, too, have had numerous diesels with DPFs and not had problems. They burn themselves clean when needed but, like all vehicles, seem to benefit performance wise from a work out occasionally although it’s not essential by any means.
FC, you’re not alone in having diesels for donkeys years but I’m dumbfounded by your recommendations.
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The first DPF equipped car I bought in 2008 was a 2007 SAAB 9-3 Tid and was a total pain in the proverbial for constant DPF issues, fortunately all warranty covered but I got rid after a few months and I vowed never to have another diesel with a DPF. Until 5 years ago I managed to avoid a DPF and it is now impossible to run a new-ish diesel without. Like you guys I have been lucky so far with my current car as it approaches 5 years and 90k miles. I have family in the motor trade who are also convinced cheap fuel = false economy. a colleague who also sells cars has stopped dealing in older DPF fitted diesels because of customer hassle when (not if) the DPF plays up. However if you want to hear it from someone else I suggest you look at Honest John website and search DPF problems........ I love driving diesels but the use of a DPF is a crude inelegant solution to the emissions problem as are DMF’ s another potentially costly failure feature of most diesels. Now that petrol engines are increasingly DPF equipped I can see problems with those too in future.
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There is much to read concerning dpf's if you 'Google' it. Basically; don't use supermarket fuel, use premium fuel every other fill up, don't go below 1/4 full, use a cleaner minimum 3k miles, drive the engine over 3k rpm every 250 miles, don't let the car idle on your drive. Dpf lifespan is 75-90k and is a service part.
The emergency services vehicles never suffer Dpf problem as their vehicles are worked really hard.
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there were more problems with the earlier DPF's as they were fitted to far away from the exhaust manifold so never got as hot as needed to burn the soot but nowadays they are fitted reasonably close which helps to keep them somewhat cleaner. the sensors however are another problem.
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In addition to my previous comments, if you do low mileage and short journeys change the engine oil and filter every 5/6 k( as in the old days and regardless of what the service book states) with a good quality oil with low sulphur ash content. Every time forced regeneration takes place small amounts of fuel enter the sump diluting the oil.
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I don't know that I agree with the concept of blasting the vehicle at excessively high engine revs as a concept to clean up a DPF. Doing that means for the given power the engine will be pumping way too much air so the turbo exit temperature will not be as hot as if more modest revs were employed to generate the required power.
A vehicle with a DPF is going to be modern, with the technology aimed to limit black smoke from the combustion, so run as intended but at quite high speed so power, could well result in as good a filter cleaning conditions being presented as possible. What most in trouble with them probably lack is the sustained time to do that cleaning process.
These DPFs can only be cleaned of the carbon and tars, the inevitable ash simply accumulates over use, being the finite life limiting issue with them. Those I have looked into their specs are designed for a useful life in the 90 to 100k miles range for domestic market cars.
Here re ash the use of the right engine oil is a major factor as that will be the primary contributor; those using mineral two stroke oil to stabilise the low speed combustion quieting things down a bit, are simply inviting a build up of excessive ash in any DPF.
I often wonder if towing helps or hinders DPF regeneration? I suspect the market pressures to optimise fuel consumption tends to make those with auto GBs seek via their control system to run in too low a gear when then asked to run in towing mode requiring rather high torque conditions. That being so selecting "sport" or holding down just one gear I feel would best optimise a clean up; ie not excessive revs but avoiding running in a way that is just holding onto too higher gear.
A interesting area, one I wish I was still young enough to be involved with, to better understand and assess the current thinking in the industry.
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I’ll leave the hearsay, anecdotes & well meaning family members & rely on my own experience. If anything does go wrong with the DPF I’ll sue the S/mkts & call ‘Frank down the pub’ to give evidence😂😂😂.
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When I was still at work the fleet of 2000 London Buses we operated all had some form of filter and emission control system, either DPF or CRT. There were no great issue's with them. We used cheap fuel, the vehicles were run between 12 and 18 hours a day in stop start conditions, average speed about 9 MPH, 7 days a week. Servicing is the key. London Buses are serviced every 4 weeks, and they also have to meet lower pollution levels to operate in central London. (reduced emissions cert) done at annual test.
The only things that were troublesome were the early Add Blue systems which used to clog with crystallized urea and put the MIL light on in the instrument panel and de-rate the vehicle until the issue was rectified.
From what I remember the filters are cleanable of all contamination including ash. ours used to go back the manufacturer "Emminox" who had a process of putting them in an oven at something like 800 degrees for 12 hrs.
One issue we did have that cost us a lot of money (£3000+ each) was theft (Scrap value) over night at some of the more remote locations of our Garages.
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We bought our caravan from a motor home dealer. When were there a motorhome was being moved & I commented on the fact it's exhaust was very loud ie blowing. Apparently this dealer routinely removed cats from vehicles left on their fore court due to theft.
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Our biggest theft was 9 CRT filters from 9 buses (they are about the same size as a 6kg calor bottle) at our Garage in Rainham Essex, to get them out from under the vehicles they had to dig out the shingle hard standing beside each vehicle in the adjacent parking area to the workshops.
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Em-Bee at Heywood?
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No its not common. And using supermarket fuel makes no difference.
That's just one of the many excuses for a failure, fact is if the DPF doesn't get a regen a burn it will fill, it could be the LR system relies on the DPF differential pressure to initiate a burn, so a sensor out of range could be the issue.
I have driven DPF cars since 2009 and never had an issue other than oil rise in the sump because I've interrupted a burn.
My mileage is only 7K max a year with 90% local driving, but NOT city driving in stop start traffic. Only time my car sees a motorway is when towing or the odd trip to relatives say 5 times a year.
I forgot to mention 99% on Tesco fuel, rest I put anything in usually when away towing.
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