Caravan weights
I need to request some more technical explanations please!
Life keeps conspiring against me getting our caravan to the weighbridge and with first holiday fast approaching I need a plan B. Plan A was to weigh it empty (but including gas, battery and motormover). Plan B (as we need to start getting things loaded) is to make best estimate on starting weight, weigh everything as we load, then take to weighbridge loaded. Our awning weighs 19kg so thought I would allow for it in calculation but not actually load it, so that I have some wriggle room in case I have underestimated everything. My question then is around our starting point.
Caravan manual lists: MIRO at 878kg to include 28kg for 2 x 5kg BP Gas Light bottles and 10litres of water in heater and 2litres in toilet. Then it lists "22kg Optional Equipment Payload" definition of which is "The payload required for equipment to enable the caravan to be used for habitation purposes". What does this mean? Max user payload is 152kg and Plated MTPLM is 1030kg. Van was a dealer special, and best guess of 'extras' is Winterhoff Stabiliser, door flyscreen and loose fit carpets (as opposed to standard runner) & different upholstery colours. Would those be included in any of the weights and if not what should I add as good estimate?
I will have to guess battery and motormover, so was going with 25kg and 50kg respectively. We carry 1x 6kg Propane (calor site estimates 18kg) and I intended emptying water before driving, so thought I could adjust MIRO by 10kg to reflect that. Everything else I can weigh.
As always, grateful for your assistance!
Daisy
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Daisy, you have the definition of MIRO used by your manufacturer, any change to this will effect it. So difference in weight between 2 x BP gas and 1x 6kg propane will impact on this figure. Battery will eat into spare weight so will mover etc with these you will be down to less than 100kgs for your other stuff. The dealer options you mention will probably have very little impact on weight. Can you put the awning and any other heavy stuff in the car when towing? We are able get awning, aquaroll, wheel/hitch locks and wastemaser in the boot of the car. To answer your question about what should be the starting point; take your caravan with battery in and gas bottle fitted (and awning etc if they have to go in the caravan) to a weigh bridge and see what the weight it is. Then at home weigh items you are going to load including clothes, food(?), chairs/table, BBQ, tools etc and see where you stand. It may give you a sobering result.
However, having said all this, do not get a phobia up about weights. If you cannot get to a weigh bridge just be careful about what you take and put the heavy stuff in the car. I wonder how many of us old hands have taken our caravans to a weigh bridge? However, concentrate on getting the noseweight as close to the max as possible
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Your profile does not show where in country you are, Daisy, but there may well be a Member near you who has a portable weigh device (which removes the need to visit the weighbridge) who could help.
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If it was a dealer special, the MIRO stated should be the weight as supplied, including the allowances as stated.
I would take the MIRO of the van as supplied, subtract the allowances and work with real figures. Ignore all the other info other than the MTPLM figure, subtract the 2 to get your payload.
The MTPLM is the only figure that matters.
This figure you have calculated has to cover absolutely everything added since the van left the factory.....mover...battery....gas bottles...fluids, but the weight of the EHU cable and the step, if one was supplied, is already in the MIRO.
You can reduce the load a bit by not travelling with any water in anywhere
So, note weights for mover etc, deduct from the payload, that leaves you what you have for clothes, bedding, toiletries, dishes, food etc et .
Now weigh all the stuff you want with you and see how it works out, be accurate.
This generally comes to more than you think, so do not carry anything unnecessary!
Our rule is anything that is used outside generally never travels in the van, the only exception is the wastemaster which conveniently fits in the front locker, and we have a very generous payload, having got an 85kg upgrade.
We did weigh the van once, we were nearer to our max than was ideal, so we had a bit of a cull afterwards!
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Thank you as always! Your comments prompted me to check the plate on the van rather than the technical specs in the handbook, and there the MIRO is listed as 900kg which I guess is taking into account the 'extras'. As suggested I have deducted the 28kg allowance for water/gas and weighing each item as I add it. Hopefully I will get to the weighbridge before we go, but if not I'm hoping my estimate of 75kg for battery and mover (the only items I don't know the actual weight of) will be on the conservative side and cover us. If we get to the weighbridge then fingers crossed I will discover some extra kg available to us
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Sadly, some makers give themselves a + tolerance on the MIRO weight plated and on top of this there are some that quote what is the basic variants weight, not the actual van's.
I have been through this finding the actual empty weight was 62 kgs more than the plated MIRO; thankfully we had a 300 odd kg payload and most of the shortfall was accommodated by the maker respecifying a higher MTPM.
There despite the hassle IMO there is only one option, weigh it.
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agreed, while its useful to know the 'MIRO' it's of no use whatsoever once the van is loaded. as the loaded weight is the only one that matters...
ok, you need to be able to get an idea about how fully you can load the van but don't get hung up with it all....
youve only got two choices...
set the van up as you would normally....battery, lead, perhaps no water, toilet fluids, awning (if this is where you want to carry it) some other things like a few clothes, some food/tins etc, crockery, cutlery etc, etc...and take it to the weighbridge and check your full running weight.
then sit down and mop brow.....
or,empty everything out of the van and go and weigh it (forget about MIRO and other terms) this is your start point...
now weigh (accurately) the stuff you put in....keep score somewhere, and you'll have a really good idea as to when you can stop loading or which items should go in the car...
at the end of the day, it's the all up weight that matters....
good luck.
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MIRO is by definition not specific to each caravan, but a generic value applicable to all of the same model, regardless of any factory fitted options. Considerable variations from published figures are therefore only to be expected if not specifically documented in conjunction with the actual chassis number in question. As the manufacturer is unlikely to weigh each caravan as it comes off the line, any MIRO that you may find on a label on the side, for example, can only be a rough guide. If you want an accurate figure then there is no alternative but to have your particular caravan actually weighed.
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Lutz. a question if you don't mind. if the van has a MPTLM of say 1500kg and you load it to this as weighed on a scales, if the nose weight is 100kg and set to this, does this make the weight of the van 1400kg as 100kg is tranfered to the vehicle. just wondering as if loaded to limit you will always be under and safe. thanks.
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so the car's engine has to pull the extra 1500Kg?
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No. The car is pulling 1400kg and carrying 100kg, making 1500kg in total. The 100kg noseweight count towards the total weight of the car.
As far as the engine is concerned it doesn't matter how the 1500kg are distributed - whether some of that 1500kg is in the car or not, the engine will be called upon to move the total weight of the caravan, but the car will actually only be pulling 1400kg.
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answer the question Lutz, I asked about the car's engine.
You're wrong again to think like that, every physicist and applied mathematician over here says the same as me, maybe physics is taught differently over there?
The car is towing 1500Kg, draw a force diagram. If the caravan wasn't there it would not be towing 1500kg - end of. We had this last time, the car cannot tow by itself, the engine does the towing, the towing force is the extra force needed by the engine not the force in the towbar. The car tows the full weight.
If you pulled up the caravan vertically by yourself and pulled along the road, would you be pulling 1500Kg or 1400Kg?
I'm sure we're not going to agree though
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to answer your last sentence yes they can but only at a very slow speed. And yes to your first.
The weight of the caravan has a bearing on the friction between the tyres and road and once you have got something moving (ie the surfaces can't generate any more force to resist your pushing) the frictional force is then constant, The formula for friction is the weight (or rather the force exerted by the road on the caravan which in most cases is the weight but not always) of the caravan x the coefficient of friction for those two surfaces. Most tyres have a CoF of about 0.7, so the car has to pull 0.7 x 1500 = 1050Kg. Of course going uphill then the weight of the caravan plays a part too.
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see above, friction is area independent and the car's engine doesn't know if you have two or ten wheels
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also, when we say towing 1500K or pulling, we don't mean that the force required is 1500kg just that the weight of 1500Kg is being moved
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all I wanted to know is if the van weight is 1500kg on scales and you don't move the van and hitch to vehicle which is not on scales would the van weight 100kg less if the nose weight is 100kg. yes or no will do. I understand the vehicle will still be pulling 1500kg.
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I don't know about the caravans but this thread is certainly heavy.
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Another thread where somebody seeks advice and you get the same culprits making it a stupid battle about who knows everything. What next ? will they be getting things out and having a measure up, or will they say my dad is bigger than yours ????? Seriously stupid and it shows its not really worth asking for advice on here. Every time i have asked advice this happens
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I apologise this is probably the most stupid question added to this discussion but has become relevant to us. Do the weight limits apply to towing weight or static weight? We really need to know this! Traded in our caravan this week, cost an unexpected £1k because of relaxed axle. Waiting for tests which we are told can prove if we have overloaded our van. Currently absolutely obsessed with this and working out the payload for the new van if the weight allowance applies to static weight allowing for mover, battery, food etc etc we can't get in it!!!
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Yep, we know that was silly or hoped it was but serious question does the maximum allowance apply to towing or static weight? If the later beware all those who use their vans to store awnings, chairs etc. A flippant question posted but a serious one nevertheless.
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agree with the above, but wonder what would happen if an axle broke while having several people in the van....
how does one (a manufacturer like Al-Ko) define 'overloading'....
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