Auto-Trail versus Auto-Sleepers Van Conversions
Considering moving from a caravan to a PVC.
Looking at the following models:-
Auto-Sleepers Warwick XL (6.36 x 2.5m).
Auto-Trail V-Line 610 with 130ps engine upgrade (5.99 x 2.51m).
Would very much appreciate advice on the pros and cons of these manufacturers, especially quality and reliability. Would also welcome any advice generally on the best choice of vehicle. Bear in mind we have no motor-home experience whatever.
Favour PVC versus coach-built MH because of narrower width and perhaps better manoeuvrability on Scottish one-track roads, small ferries, stores, parking etc. Have chosen 2-berth, 2-travel-seat models with 6'3" lengthwise double/twin bed configuration for flexibility, ease of access, ease of make-up and ability to leave made-up.
Our caravanning is hitherto long stays on sites in the Scottish Highlands and then driving to outdoor locations. Would now like to do longer journeys, with more and shorter stops, a chore with a caravan. Would still like to have the ability to drive from site to other locations as easily as possible, hence interest in a PVC as a compromise between a caravan/car and a coach-built MH, if that makes sense.
Look forward to members advice, especially if my ideas are misguided. Tell it like it is. I will not be offended. You may save me from doing the wrong thing. Thanks in advance, Dave
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Your style of holiday sounds the same as ours............
We do it in an Autotrail 615 coach built being 6.34m long...
The roads/ferries in the highlands & islands would be even easier in a PVC but we like/need the extra width of the coachbuilt, transverse beds are not big enough for me, I'm 6'2" and for that reason some of the longitudinal beds aren't long enough either.
You are basically correct, the smallest M/H you can manage with gives you the most flexibility, sit in a few and imagine being in it in the rain in bonny Scotland for two weeks, will it be big enough...??
You could even hire one for a week to see if it suits.....
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Dave, I'm going to touch wood as I type.......!!
We bought it new in Nov 16 and haven't had any problems yet.....!
It does exactly what we wanted, but we knew what we wanted as we have both been caravanning and motorhoming since we were small children....!!
As with everything in life, you get what you pay for, it may not be built like a Hymer or as plush as an Auto Sleeper, but neither of those were what we were looking for.........I will keep it a few years then buy another new one, so "longevity" of the furniture was not an issue for me.....and obviously all the real engineering bits are the same (Fiat/Peugeot) whatever brand you buy, unless you can afford a Mercedes based AS coachbuilt....!
There are lots of horror stories of just about every brand of M/H, caravan, car, TV, vacuum cleaner etc on the internet, most people only write about it if dissatisfied. We are still happy with ours.....!
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have a look at motorhomefun, Motorhomefacts and outandaboutlive forums as they are far more MH biased than this one.
generally there will be sections on each brand which will give you some more in depth info, similarly AS and AT have their own forums...
a few hours well spent, you'll find....
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Hi, Dave. I think you’re very much on the right track in your thinking both in terms of vehicle and the way you intend you use it.
We changed a few years ago from a caravan to a 6.4m Autosleeper coachbuilt MH based on a Merc Sprinter. Last year we took it to Orkney and Shetland and managed pretty well. We wouldn’t have taken our caravan there.
However, we decided if was time to downsize further and wanted something sub 6m and definitely narrower than the coachbuilt.
We looked at the 5.5m Autotrail V Line but found it cramped (for us) and really wanted something with two full length bunks.
We then looked at and bought the 6m Warwick (not the XL). We didn’t really want the extra length of the XL and preferred the layout of the shorter version with the kitchen opposite the sliding door. This allows more room to bend and reach into the fridge and oven. We find the 2litre 160 engine in the 2017 Peugeot to be smoother and possibly more powerful than the 2.2 150 Fiat in the V Line we tested. No way does the Pug compare to the Sprinter though.
Problems - well, we bought the Warwick at the tail end of last season and have only stayed in it for a few days, although we have taken it out for several day trips over the winter. We found a few issues with the build but, in all honesty, nothing as bad as some people experience. The fridge overheated due to, we think, the heat shield being incorrectly installed, both water taps were fitted wrongly, and the driver's seat cover had a hole in it. All were corrected under warranty. A drawer front fell off but was refixed by us and the reversing camera is pretty rubbish.
This year we're heading for the Hebrides so I'll tell you more after that. We have, though, found the reduced width from the coachbuilt a big advantage and losing nearly half a metre on length is good as parking is now easier. Being FWD, the Pug has a poor turning circle which hampers manoeuvrability but we are comparing it to the RWD Merc.
Good hunting. I’m happy to answer any other questions either here or by email (see profile).
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Tinwheeler 04/03/2018 19:21
Thank you very much for your in depth reply and the time you spent composing it. Did I read elsewhere that you spend a good bit of time here in Scotland?
I have looked at the Warwick Duo and based on your experience will have another good look. The 6m length may be better than the XL. Living/sleeping cabin is the same size as the XL and the only sacrifice is a smaller bathroom. That could be a good choice for us too. Thanks for the heads up on quality and engine choice. Not sure we need the media pack. What do you think?
Once again thanks for you exemplary reply. Cheers, Dave
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We looked a Warwick when we brought the Rhythm. Both were very similar. We wanted 2 single beds and ease of accessing the other facilities at night. What made the decision is that the wardrobe overhangs the bed in the Warwick thus having to sleep one way unless you feel like banging your head when you wake up. Found the Peugeot and Autocruise quality good. This is our 6th Campervan and went from a mid length Autosleeper which in retirement and longer trips was too small and the bed making a faff with restricted access at night. Spend over a month each year fishing in North Scotland and find the 6M length no problem
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You're welcome, Dave. Happy to help.
We all have different priorities and make different choices depending on what’s right for us. I'd recommend reconsidering the 6m Warwick if only to compare it with the XL.
We bought ours off the forecourt - a brand new conversion on a 5 month old base vehicle so had no choice about extras. We have the club camper satnav which doubles as the screen for the reversing camera but I’d not go out of my way to buy either. We had reversing sensors fitted at our local Pug dealership and find them more use than the camera.
We have been touring Scotland for many years but have gone more off the beaten track since we had a MH. We went to the far NW - Durness, Scourie et al one year, the Northern Isles last year and now heading for the Western Isles. We have the Isle of Man and both parts of Ireland in our sights, too.
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Thank very much, Fisherman. Your post was very helpful indeed. I was completely unaware that Swift had a PVC range. That is not surprising because I know next to nothing about motor-homes. The 2018 version of your Rhythm seems to be the Select 122 and that is the ideal length and layout for us. So special thanks for sharing your extensive experience. Amazing what you learn by asking and listening. Thanks again, Dave.
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We moved from a 2 berth caravan to an AS Warwick XL over 2 years ago and love it. Would we go back ? Never. We can get the AS on the drive which is a big bonus, and find we are perhaps a little more selective when picking sites as you don't always want to move the van every day, but are happy to do so as required. It fits on a supermarket car-park, but pick a plot on the edges. It fits in many town car parks but not all. Its not very good with height barriers. Top bonus with taking the van out for the day is you have everything with you, and if you shop whilst out its straight into the fridge. We like the lay out, we use it as 2 singles, all other facilities are more than adequate and use them all fully, even on no facility sites. Storage is less, compared to a caravan, but you learn to pack tight and use every nook & cranny, we also have a waterproof box for storing stuff which you may have in your caravan gas locker outside of the van, in the summer a pop up tent too for chairs and BBQ. Touring is different in a van, we never stay more than 4/5 nights, often less, and move a shorter distance further on each time we move. We find we can carry clothes for 3 weeks, and food for about 4 days.
Quality of fittings is good, quality of build less so, we have, as many others have experienced minor niggles... faulty switch, leaking waste pipe, blind, fell off, screws loose, water pump failed.. Bear in mind they are a complex beast, and whilst they work ok in the factory, once you have dragged them around country roads for a few hundred miles things do fail.. No problems long term apart from the first few times out. We love it ....
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There are a number of slimline coachbuilts on the market. I've fairly recently bought a Marquis Majestic 125, 6 x 2.14, so only 2" wider than a PVC. If you've got deep pockets, Carthago have a slimline A class range although the shortest is 6.4m.
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PS :
As I understand it Autosleeper and Autotrail and indeed Marquis are all part of the same group, all now owned by Trigano I think.
https://www.practicalcaravan.com/news/42608-british-giant-marquis-leisure-bought-by-trigano
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Our Carthago i138 is the 6.4m one that CY mentions, and at only 2.12m wide it is very slim..so (as the strapline goes) proper MH comfort in a Van footprint...
yes, they are (relatively) expensive, but are extremely well finished, have double floors, huge storage, two very large double beds....but I wouldn't expect this sort of van to be someone's first MH, especially moving from a typical uk caravan layout....this is our fourth and our first was a Swift.
so, our van (specifically) probably wouldn't suit the OP ....but some points are worth exploring...
Manoevrability: I'm pretty sure our van has a shorter wheelbase than the 6/6.36m ducato/boxer vans (which are both the same, longer overhang on 6.36 version) which makes it easier to park on site and to spin round a mini roundabout.....my road test really surprised me compared to the longer wheelbase of our previously van.
the 'concept' of smaller/slimmer coachbuilts (see Hymer, Burstner, Elddis, Swift) gives more interior space than a same footprint PVC (more vertical sidewalls allows for larger lockers and a higher roofline) and generally better insulation, which can vary tremendously by PVC brand, depending on how well the van walls have been filled and how little and how good (or not) the materials are ....I can assure you they are not all the same...
the OP also mentioned the convenience of leaving the beds made up, which always makes me wonder why not just have two permanent singles in the rear, can be low for ease of access or higher to provide good storage beneath, they will 'always be made up', can provide day bed relaxing should this be required....and are (generally) far more comfortable than beds designed to be sofas... If away for many weeks this might have a bearing..
so, perhaps the question might be......a bed that can be relaxed on, or a sofa that can be slept on.....my OH often uses the rear bed to relax and read....
...but PVC with fixed beds will (due to space) have small(er) lounges and this may be a step too far for someone coming from a caravan.
For the OP's info (who didn't know that Swift made PVC vans) there are umpteen brands who make PVCs, although many won't have a rear lounge version, but can provide rear singles (and even the odd drop down bed) who have terrific build quality....incl Carthago (Malibu range), Adria, La Strada, Rapido, Hymer, Knaus, Pilote, Westfalia...
to balance the post, there are also plenty of other UK manufacturers who produce popular UK style PVC layouts....obviously AS, AT, East Neuk, IH, come to mind.
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Justus2 05/03/2018 07:25
Cyberyacht 05/03/2018 07:30
BoleroBoy 05/03/2018 09:04
Thank you for taking time to help me, especially concerning Warwick XL usage/packing, and slimline coach-builts, which I was not aware of and will investigate. We are not far from East Neuk and will visit. IH look good but are very far away from we here in Perthshire.
Once again thanks to you all for sharing your knowledge and experience. It is much appreciated. Kind regards, Dave.
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This discussion is very helpful as we make the change, after forty years, from a 2 berth caravan to motorhome. The difficulty we have found in making a choice is the prevalence of Peugeot, Fiat or Ford as a base vehicle. Neither my wife nor I can never imagine being happy to drive a Peugeot, a Fiat or a Ford. This means that we are left with one choice: a Mercedes Sprinter with a proper TC 7 speed box. We have looked at every available layout and tried to imagine every scenario in which we will find ourselves. We keep coming back to what we see as the reality that only a parallel lounge layout will work for us and provide us with a short enough vehicle. The answer, for us at least, is an Auto-Sleeper Stanton. The next part of the equation is to talk to Auto-Sleeper and see if they are willing to build us one without the full oven and microwave. We would never use the former and I cannot use the latter as I have a pacemaker. I know the arguments about second hand value of motorhomes without ovens but such an argument is irrelevant to us. This will be our last motorhome and if our son wants to add an oven some time in the future it would not be much more than a day's work for him.
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Unfortunately, Q, the Stanton is probably wider than Dave wants. It’s the same width as our AS Suffolk was and it took a lot of soul searching to give up the auto Merc and replace it with the manual Pug in order to get the narrower width van with a layout we were happy with.
We like the new van and the change was worthwhile but we do miss the Merc. At the end of the day, we each have to weigh things up and there'll always be a compromise to be made somewhere along the way.
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Q, why not get your son to remove the oven and microwave?
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2018 Swift Select 122 (Formerly Autocruise Rhythm as suggested by Fisherman).
6m PVC. Has a very nice long parallel 6ft fixed twins/make-up double bed. Decent wash room. No microwave. Gas bottles under the sink. Tight storage. Keenly priced. A contender for us.
According to local dealer 2018 production is sold out.
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"Neither my wife nor I can never imagine being happy to drive a Peugeot, a Fiat or a Ford."
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I can see the Stanton may be too wide for Dave. I don't think we would mind the extra width as almost all our travel is in France. We look for temperatures preferably above 30C and, much as we love the Highlands, it is not often that warm up there.
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Q, you know there are very few on a Merc!
Dave hasn't specified Merc so it’s mot an issue for him.
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It’s a bit short on payload, too, but only having to buy 3 tyres is a bonus.
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