German v English Caravans (New)
Looking for your advice please. Having seen all the quality issues with British caravans we are thinking of buying a German one (we currently have an old Bailey Ranger which has been great but are planning some longer trips now). We want a good quality, year round van, 4 berth with single beds and cooker, microwave and shower. Can anyone advise which are the best ones to look at (or rank the German makes in order of quality). Has anyone been to Germany and bought direct from a German Dealer (we speak German), if yes what are the benefits/downside please? You advice and suggestions for what we should look for are much appreciated. Many thanks in advance.
Comments
-
The one thing to remember is that to get the same facilities in a german made c/van is that you will probably need a big tow vehicle as the "build quality?" also results in a heavier c/van,why not see if the Hymer "effect " results in a "better"Elddis group
1 -
As someone who was always very satisfied with the quality of his UK made vans it is difficult to advise. Generally UK vans will come more fully equipped as standard. It is also unfortunate that you have chosen a point in history where the value of Sterling is at its lowest for many years so any purchase direct from Germany will be more expensive. Personally I would have thought you need to come at this from a different direction. First priority I would have thought would be to select a van that is of the design you want, has the facilities you want. If that is encapsulated in a German van so be it.
David
2 -
The German caravan makers Knaus have built some models that have been built for the British market. They have models with single beds and the door on the UK side and everything else your looking for, they are called the Star class range.
1 -
If you speak German why not go onto German forums for German makes and see if they identify problems with build qualities? You might be surprised!
Inevitably forums mostly attract negative comments which gives a false picture of the quality of caravan building in the UK.
Many UK caravan purchasers are not on this forum and most forum users are not regular posters so the comments received are not necessarily representative.
I have had 3 Lunars in recent years and all have been fine.
4 -
Hi Mfield,
I was fortunate enough to have no major problems from '76 with Trophy,Sprite,Bailey,Eccles but in 2001 we decided to go for our first German manufactured caravan a T.E.C. produced by the Hymer group, what a change ( no front window to start ), it was ridiculed by a few but when build quality and " fit for purpose " was taken into consideration, how many UK ' vans at that time had 14" ali wheels, shock absorbers, Alko euro axle, a longer A frame to allow better towing stability, loose fit carpets, door screens, Fridge and separate freezer, Heiki roof lights, proper front lockers able to carry 13 kg gas + spare wheels, fixed double beds, the list goes on, which is why we ( because we could ) enjoyed another 4 T.E.C.'s a Geist and 2 Hymers. This time last year we returned after living for 7 yrs France and decided the 6 yr old Hymer was getting a bit long in the tooth and was advised by a friend in the trade that of the choice of the " run of the mill " Uk 'vans Coachman was IHO the better. We duly purchased a top of the range VIP 560/4 ( what a mistake ) a lovely looking caravan with all the bells and whistles ( probably the poshest caravan we've ever owned ) but my oh my the materials used were so flimsy both front seat collapsed and the rest of the " woodwork " was no better. We soon got rid at great loss and purchased a Hymer Nova 541 ( to see us by ) We have now just purchased a new Hymer 580 Gl and really would not consider returning to a UK manufactured caravan. Note : These German 'vans will never win " the best looking 'van on the rally field " but I doubt they'll spend as much time back at the dealers. Dare to be different, I mean there aren't many pulling UK 'vans with Rovers nowadays ""
2 -
Knaus were at the NEC at the last show and will have a large display at the October show. You are asking for advice and my advice is this, we have a 2013 Elddis Crusader and we would never even look at another Elddis, so that said it all. And I am not a Knaus salesman.
0 -
This reminds me CGBN, when we arrived at Adventure Leisure to pick up our unseen Hymer we noticed they also sold the Elddis top of the range Buccaneer caravans, took a good look at them and for the same price as our Hymer would not even take one at 10 grand cheaper !!
This is only my opinion and do not at all wish to slag anyone off regards their choice of type, model or manufacture of caravan.
http://i63.tinypic.com/24mrrep.jpg
0 -
Indoors
This website won't accept URL's to a photo you have to use the add photo function and it needs to be resized to about 500 pixel width.
David
0 -
I can vouch for the quality of Knaus vans and there's a big network of dealers now.
If we change van - and ours shows no sign of fading yet - it will be replaced with another Knaus. Would also consider Hymer and Adria but no other manufacturers will be in the running
0 -
Knaus also have a large presence in the UK MH market, really nice vans and very well made.
0 -
Good question OP.
The short answer is :- If you really want a van with all the gizmos, bells and whistles, go for a British van.----------------But -------------
If you would prefer to have a slightly more basic van but of a much higher build quality, go for a German one.
Hope this advice helps.
K
0 -
Well I wouldn't describe the offerings from Hymer or Knaus as basic in any way and it does tend to be an accusation made by those who haven't looked at the details and rely on things they've heard about the German 'dry' vans from decades ago.
The reality is that the basic spec is fine but there are additional features that you can add on if desired. The German vans that have been designed for the UK market such as the Knaus Starclass have all the OP asks for with the pleasant addition of a proper sized fixed bed
0 -
In my opinion the British caravans are built for our mild weather, were as the German vans are built for temperatures at 30c above and 30 below freezing. And how many Dutch and German caravaners do you see with British made vans, very few if any.
0 -
My Fendt is now 13 years old. Interior still looks new and externally does not look it's age. No intention of replacing it as it's probably got many years of service left in it. Hope that helps you with the decision.
0 -
Kennine obviously didn't read my first post.
Dusseldorf Salon is the place to meet UK manufacturers, they are there every year looking for the latest ideas, they never seem to learn much about the quality of manufacture though. I remember Swifts " wind of change " Corniche soon all caravans will be made this way, they didn't last ! Baileys AluTech so thin we weren't supposed to tow them or they dented. My T.E.C's in 2001 were all Ali, if you punched it you'd bruise ya knuckles and it's still the same with my new Hymer ( though they have now started using GRP or whatever for the gas lockers ).
Like I stated earlier each to his own, I've been fortunate enough to be able to try many 'vans and after the Coachman debacle last year, seems nothings changed in 20 yrs.
0 -
Our last three caravans have all been Hymer's. It is a case of what are your priorities. When we first started looking at caravans every British van we saw had obvious faults then we saw a German made van and for us it was a real eye opener. We bought a 2001 Hymer swing in 2005 this was an entry level van so as such it lacked the following spark ignition on the hob, and manual ignition on the fridge and fire. What it did have was Shock absorbers, solid plumbing all waste run through traps to a single waste point wiring run in conduit a roof you could walk on in short it was bullet proof. Compare that to a UK van of that era.
On our third Hymer I am not sure what bells an whistles it lacks. Maybe an extractor fan in the kitchen, more than made up for by the Alde heating including underfloor and the warming draw the soft close draws multiple led light the mega comfortable bed, why should i buy a mattress topper an under bed storage locker that is big enough to put an aquaroll in from the outside I could go on. But let's put it this way I don't cry myself to sleep each night wishing I had bought a British van. It is all personal opinion but when I look at a UK van and a Bucaneer is an excellent example of this its looks to me it all bling no substance. Look under the van and in the cupboards to see the true quality. Realise you are paying 30K for something with no payload. Ask yourself why is the 12v master switch plonked t random in the middle of the light switches. It all points to a lack of care imho, I do hope that Hymer sort Elddis out but I think that they have a huge job on their hands and as long as the great British public demand style of substance it is always going to be the same.
PS. Our 2001 Hymer Swing was without doubt the ugliest van ever seen on a Rally field.
1 -
We have paid the deposit on a new Knaus caravan. We have been very interested for some time and put our order for a new Starclass 565 at the NEC show. The van is already made and on it's way from the factory in Germany. Our last three vans have been twin axle 8 mitre and the new van is 24ft 7inch with the same layout, but shorter lounge and bathroom, but the van itself looks very well built.
0 -
Your supposition is very skewed.
If you read these boards then you will see many examples of issues with vans. If you read German boards you will also see that they have issues as well.
It is a similar supposition in the car world, VW, BMW and MB all sell superior quality vehicles that are more reliable. Afraid not, statistics show that they are very average.
There is a concept difference between the two markets, the UK vans are built in the way that has evolved from cottage industry to a very confined market, i.e. the UK. The German vans have taken a slightly different evolutionary path, for some this is a better product.
Other evidence given is that you dont see many Dutch or German owners of UK built vans, well no but then you dont see many UK owners of German vans. If you do not have a dealer network and actively sell into them markets then you will not sell in that market. This is not an indication of quality it is just simple retail fact.
German vans are built on the same chassis as the UK vans so no difference there. The German vans tend to use thicker heavier walls so are generally more robust, the downside is the substantial weight increase. All the vans tend to use appliances from Whale, Alko, Alde, etc. so again no difference.
Then there is the cost issue, the German vans cost more, a lot more. Now if I was buying a van for life then I would certainly think the German vans were good value for money but if like me you chop every couple of years then the economy of swapping a UK van every couple of years and keeping the German van for 6 years is comparable.
My personal opinion based on many years in the automotive engineering design business is that the German vans have a significant advantage in construction, mainly the selection of materials. UK vans frustrate me with different mismatched finishes, poor chioice of plastics and variable assembly quality.
So what would I buy, probably a UK van again, mainly based on the fact the my two previous vans were both purchased new and I have had virtually no issues with either. My other primary reason is layout, the proper bathroom and shorter drawbar being the main issues for me.
Would I buy a Continental van, yes, I really think the Adria range offers exceptional build quality and cost balance.
3 -
And this from Practical Caravan's recent survey.....says it all.
Slovenian manufacturer Adria walked away with the top prize at tonight’s Owner Satisfaction Awards 2018, winning the coveted ‘best manufacturer of new caravans’ accolade.
The ceremony, a joint venture by Practical Caravan and The Camping and Caravanning Club, was held at the Midland Hotel, Manchester, co-hosted by Club President Julia Bradbury with Practical Caravan’s Editor Niall Hampton presenting the awards.
Britain’s most popular imported caravan brand achieved its success with a satisfaction rating of 89.2%.
And Adria fought off tough competition from the other Gold Award-winning manufacturers, second-placed Eriba (88.8%) and third-placed Knaus (88.2%).
The top British brand was Coachman, its satisfaction rating of 80.5% making it our best-performing Silver Award-winner.
1 -
Johnray57 has pointed to a survey in which continental caravans have come out ahead of UK built caravans, in this case not by a small margin. Every satisfaction survey I have seen does the same. Owners rate their continental caravan more highly than UK built caravans.
There are a number of possible explanations to these findings.
1. Owners of Continental caravans have lower expectations of there caravans, so they will accept faults that Owners of UK vans won’t
2, They have been conned by the hype that Non UK vans are better built. So they are too embarrassed to admit to any faults.
Or
3. Non-UK vans are actually better built and less prone to faults than UK van ( note I haven’t said fault free)
Couldn’t be number 3 could it.
0 -
Boff - there is of course a glaringly obvious explanation to the findings, which as you rightly point out, seems to occur on a regular basis. The findings, therefore, must have some foundations. Perhaps we have to admit, like it or not, that is the build quality is better in non UK built vans.
The biggest finding of all for me, is that OUR industry needs to take notice and actually DO something about it because we do make excellent looking and beautifully designed caravans.
Not sure your 'possible explanations' hold any substance, other than point 3
1 -
Some interesting comments and they reminded me of a post I made last October in a thread where the quality of British vans was being praised;
Ouch! Today was spent taking our 4 month old Lunar to have the water ingress assessed and deat with so not really in tune with your comments. We have had five vans from new and the only one that did not require a workshop visit to rectify issues was a Hobby bought in Germany.
I take no pleasure in mentioning this and would happily settle for a British van that was without faults.
We collected our Lunar just after I made the post and at the next outing, a New Year rally, the fridge, that the dealer has now had three attempts at fixing, is still faulty.
We had an Elddis when invited into a Dutch neighbours Hobby van in Italy in 2003. It is still the only van that has elicited a “wow” from both of us and led to us buying from Joerresens in Germany the following year.
At the time the exchange rate as a lot better but even at today’s rates it would have been competitive.
We moved back to British vans to get the layout we wanted but if you are happy with what you can get in the German vans they are certainly worth considering.
0 -
I have had 3 caravans over the past 30 years an Abbey and 2 bailey and never had the front seats collapse . What on earth do you do to collapse front seats? Regarding German and French caravans we have visited a lot of shows over the past 25 years and seen many styles but never been impressed enough to buy one we have a Bailey Barcelona series 2 and are very happy with it its 5 years old this May and having just got back from the NEC only found 0ne van that would temp us to part with our cash. The latest series 4 unicorn in our view have not done enough for us to consider changing. the foreign models were very dark and dated for our taste so for the moment we will keep what we have.
0 -
So I've had 17 'vans on 30 yrs ! that obviously does not make my opinion or advice any better or indeed more helpful than yours, it is an opinion. I've stated in the past that being fortunate enough to have owned 7 UK 'vans and not a major problem with any' my choice in 2001 was to try a German manufactured caravan. So happy with T.E.C's ( Hymer ) we purchased 5 in 6 yrs, all new ( I think that will allow one to know there were no " teething " problems ) a Geist ( Hymer ) a Hymer and then a Coachman VIP, The " what on earth do you do to collapse front seats " is, well no different to what we have done with all our 'vans, we sit on them. I again have stated in the past that ends on both seats parted and collapsed. We then strengthened this very poor corner joint by fixing lengths of 2" x 2" down the corners. Someone now owns that caravan and will be pleased I did so.
Happy caravanning.
0 -
Style is a subjective quality. Leaks and things falling to bits isn’t.
Although in the interests of full disclosure. I had to modify the hinge system on the front seat, to stop the wooden base slipping and the occupant of the seat falling through the hole. The fix involved 2 self tapping screws and took less than 5 minutes after we stopped laughing.
0 -
17 vans in 30 years! Can't you make your mind up?
3 -
Yet another thread with polarised views on the merits of competing leisure vehicle manufacturers quality. With many threads reflecting personal beliefs as opposed to reasoned consideration. Large scale surveys such as the C&MCs have over the years, tended to show a small differential in satisfaction between marques. Often in favour of German makes. We see the same distribution in belief of car quality. Yet leisure vehicle manufacturers continue to build vans matched to their domestic market. Yes of course Swift, Bailey etc could build vans with thicker walls, more robust interiors etc, with a heavier design, and they could raise the payload allowance too. But based on customer demand for lighter towing loads, which in turn, aligns with contemporary tow car weight reduction, they build a compromise between robustness and lightness. And since people who are happy to drive heavy tow cars, with their higher fuel consumption, are well catered for, with German vans, then everyone should be happy - but it seems that they aren’t. It’s not enough to congratulate yourself with the wisdom of your choice, to obtain maximum satisfaction, it’s necessary to convince others too. So VW owners rejoiced in their cars perceived excellence, until it was revealed that the manufacturer had deceived them over fuel consumption figures, Better still, buy a big Mercedes (or Range Rover) with their owner’s superior rights to park on double yellow lines, disabled parking etc. And as a bonus, use them to tow a heavy van. All of these choices have their good and bad points, which doesn’t necessarily mean that emotion gives a better result than reasoned consideration - it’s a fast track to self satisfaction though.
2
