First caravan search, 2-berth c.1,000kg
'Evening all!
We're new to the club, new to caravaning, and hoping to learn from experienced members. We've done a limited amount of ten camping, and last year enjoyed some time in a vintage caravan that felt a world apart to the experience we'd had the week previous in a bell tent. A solid roof, draught proof body and the convenience of a decent bed rather than an air mattress has left us with a very positive impression of caravans.
Our plan is to spend some time researching options before making a cautious start with a small, used caravan. Our plans are occasional weekends in the UK, but what we'd really like it for is to tour Europe for 2-4 weeks at a time.
What should we be looking for in our first caravan, and are there any makes/models that stand out as particularly good or bad buys. Our requirements are as follows:
- Max plated weight 1200 kg, although from what I've read I'd prefer this to be closer to 1,000 kg to maintain a decent bhp/tonne and stay within the correct nose-weight. Our vehicle is a Citroen C3 Picasso 1.6HDi 90bhp. We don't plan on changing vehicle for a few years yet.
- 2-berth, with a bed length suitable for someone 6'2" and a ceiling height where they could stand up.
- A usable payload difference between MIRO and MTPLM - we've looked at a lot of caravan specs and were amazed at the variation in available payload, with some models as little as 50kg.
- We're not looking to tour between "resort" sites. Swimming pools and site-based activities don't appeal as much as a good view/location and better value than airbnb. So we believe a caravan that needs minimal external hookups would be beneficial, e.g. solar, and it must have a shower/WC. Where it's legal we'd like the option of wild camping.
- Our budget would be up to £5k, certainly not much more. Which we know means an older caravan that might require some upgrades (solar, LED lighting, etc.).
All suggestions appreciated. We've considered a few - the Freedom range look good but seem to have very low payloads, the Swift Basecamp looks perfect but is well beyond our budget! the Bailey Ranger 380/2 and Avondale Dart 380/2 bothappear to fit the bill.
Many thanks.
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Hi, Pickle. Its a wise move to try a cheaper second hand caravan at first.
It'll be very much personal preference which model you choose and you'll find there are good and bad in all brands. Just look around and buy what seems to be a good one that suits you.
Don't forget that it's the fully laden weight of the van and the kerb weight of the car you need to match. The recommendation is that the laden van be no more than 85% of the kerb weight of the car but it is only a recommendation, not law. The legal weight limit is whatever is specified as a max towing weight for your car.
Good hunting.
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Thanks Tinwheeler.
This is all very new, and whilst I read that the 85% is advisory when I put what I consider as conservative choices of caravan into the various online outfit compatibility tools I get very cautious reports - although it's usually the bhp/ton that's flagged.
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The Avondale Dart 380 is not suitable for 6'2". I'm 5'9" and I found the bed length barely adequate if used as a single. The only way to have sufficient space is to make it up as a double. I'm not sure I'd want to tow it with your car either. It would be OK most of the time but if the terrain/wind was challenging, you might find it less than relaxing. I used to tow mine with a Kuga although that was a bit 'overkill'
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Thanks lornalou1, unfortunately towcar has inaccurate data for the C3 Picasso - as do most of the outfit matching tools I've tried, I'm guessing it's no one's first choice of tow car?
Very useful first hand experience cyberyacht, whilst we're likely to be setting up any bed as a double it does need to comfortably fit my height. What would you suggest as an upper mass limit for relaxed driving - should we be looking closer to 900 kg MTPLM?
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What is the kerb weight of your car, PW, and what is its max legal towing ability? Those are the overriding figures to base the weight of your caravan on.
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Tinwheeler, details as follows:
- Kerb weight 1352 kg
- Payload 502 kg
- Gross vehicle 1779 kg
- Gross train 2979 kg
- Braked trailer 1200 kg
- Nose weight 54 kg
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Cheers, PW.
That makes your 85% recommended max about 1150kg which is slightly less than your legal max of 1200kg. Your gross train weight is another not to be exceeded by law.
Although 1150, or even 1200kg, would keep you just on the right side of the law, I think you'd be wise to keep the van MTPLM lower than that. In fact, the lower the better. You need to consider the engine power and effort needed to tow up hills and, more importantly, the effort required to keep a van in check going downhill. Remember, too, the effect of winds buffeting that large slab sided box behind you which can be very different from when towing a low trailer.
Although it’s not a car I’d choose to tow with, if you make your choice with care, you should be OK but aim for as light as you can.
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It's the nose weight limit that would concern me. Given that constraint, I think I would be looking for a max 1000Kg and preferably under 900Kg.
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We used to have a Lunar Ariva which came in at 1,000kgs, actually 995kgs but the plate was kindly upgraded to 1,000kgs (big deal).
We used to tow it with a 1.6 Kia Ceed, 116bhp and towed it as far as Poland and to the south of Spain so no problems. Nice van but I think you are going to be disappointed if you think you can find one (any model) that is Draught Proof, particularly an older model.
The main problem you are going to have is the bed. The Ariva is narrower than most other vans. The reason I am posting is that I can't remember the length of the seating squabs so you may be able to sleep separately if necessary.
If not then just ignore post.
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Yes I've tried the matching service on this website, and to say it's temperamental is an understatement. The only way to get it to offer the correct diesel engine/gearbox combination is to include the petrol options in the initial selection criteria! And it's missing some data.
Entering caravan models under 1100kg gives a generally favourable match, but the bhp/ton is highlighted as a "!" with warnings about gradients and pulling away from junctions.
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The matching 'service' certainly leaves a lot to be desired, PW, but hills and pulling away could be a problem - see my earlier post. I suspect you'll have trouble getting down to that low nose weight as well.
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Our first caravan was an Abby Iona at 1000kgs which I towed with a 1.6 litre petrol Suzuki SX4. Was fine until I came to a hill. But it was fine for 18 months until I changed them both.
I think you should make a list of all caravan dealers within a radius around your house and spend a whole day going round and seeing what is available at what cost.
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Met a guy on holiday last year who had a petrol version of your car. He was towing one of those tear drop caravans and really struggled to get the nose weight right. Odly it was getting it down to the 54 kgs nose ;weight as the caravan had an almost neutral balance, he ended up putting quite a lot of water in the on board tank! His other comment was that when he approached any incline he had to change gear! That caravan would probably be too small for you anyway. Have you looked at one of the pop up caravans? Your car is very small for towing a caravan and with your need for a 6ft plus bed your choice will be very limited.
Now gone dull here so will do a little research and see if I can come up with anything.
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We'll do the dealership searches and visits over the next few weeks. I've had a look at a few local websites and what's listed online is either too heavy, too new (expensive), or too heavy and too new. Hopefully the lighter and more budget friendly options are hidden around the back and don't make it onto the website.
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Just looked at the Club's matching service and it does include the diesel version of your car! Have you looked at the Adria Action 361 or the Swift Sprite Finesse 2? The width of both is 7ft 2in so the internal ought to be wide enough; this is the standard width of caravans! The internal height of the Adria is 6ft 5in. Google 'light weight caravans' and see what comes up. But your choice is limited and nose weight is a problem, target should be 5 - 7% of the MPTL of the caravan so 50 - 70 kgs. Good luck.
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Have a look at the Caravelair website. The range called Antares is quite lightweight, and offers long beds at nearly 6ft 4 inches. There are several dealers in England, and they may have second-hand vans which fit your budget, or you may just find one one the Caravan Finder or similar websites.
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There is a second hand Freedom caravan advertised on UKCS which is towed by a Citroen Picasso! It's situated in Lincolnshire (don't know where you are) but has been advertised for a while now so may well be sold.
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Our 18 yr old Rapido pop-up is a perfect answer for us, Total gross allowed weight is 950kG. Last time I put it on a weighbridge, it was 880kg including 2 gas bottles, battery, wheel blocks, spare wheel, long EHU cable, battery, portable radiator and a number of other items.
So there's not a huge amount of extra allowable, but we find it quite adequate. When loaded for our trip round Scotland last yr we still had 14kg allowance left over.
The pop-up part of the roof extends over the whole van, not just a portion in the middle. Beds are 6ft.
Total height in towing position is just 2m, so you can pass under most height bars. Total length 5m.
It cost us £4K in Nov 2016, inc gear and an awning which we mostly leave at home, but is there when needed.
It's far from being the newest thing in technology, but we come to it from years in tents and for us it's luxurious :-) There is no shower, so it breaks that criterion, but washing by other means is always possible. More recent versions are in the Silver range, which may even include showers.
And it's very friendly. Just not prestigious, which also suits us fine.
Happy hunting!
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We're in West Norfolk, so it can't be too far. If a Clio could pull it I'm sure the C3 Picasso would have no problems (they have the bigger C4 Picasso!).
I'll give it a look.
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Two more ideas:
1. Has anyone suggested an Eriba, or Rapido, Gobur or Esterel folding caravan (which look like a caravan but squashed - not the trailer tent type)? There are plenty for sale on ebay - some in your price bracket. A very nice Esterel
2. As you say you plan to tour Europe, might I suggest something radical, and that's a quick visit to France and have a look at some second-hand caravans there................! French vans (like the Caravelair) are generally lighter in weight - and meant for outdoor living. We were surprised at just what was available.
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See above, my eulogy of our Rapido
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if you plan on keeping your C3 a while you are going to be fairly limited on you choice of vans and the advice given so far is very sound. I'd endorse the suggestion to go look in France, i think they invented camping and are still coming up with brilliant light-weight solutions. When you finally find you ideal van my advice is to put as much in the car - especially the heavy stuff - and keep the van as light as possible. Nose weight is the really critical factor, and that can take a little bit of juggling things around to begin with but you'll soon get the hang of it - happy camping!
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Many thanks for keeping the suggestions coming! We were hoping to get across to Greentrees for their touring show this weekend and take a look at a few caravans.. might make it tomorrow but it's looking unlikely.
We're not keen on folders or tent-trailers, we know they have weight advantages but the putting-up/taking-down looks too much like the faff of tent camping. Having watched a few folding caravan demonstration videos on Youtube I'm also a little hesitant about the water-tightness and general construction.
I've dug out the details of the caravan we stayed in last year that's largely responsible for us taking an interest in this. It was a Thompson Glendale and we found it compact but workable. Looking up the specifications this evening I'm amazed by how light it is compared to a modern caravan - I guess that'e the additional mass of insulation, shower unit, etc.
Our next scheduled trip is across to Germany, but we'll bear in mind France for a look at what's available there.
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I'll stop banging on about it, promise
but while I share your reservations about a full-scale folder, (though a friend of ours has one and loves it)), but I can report that from pop-top being down to up takes less than a minute with ours. I think I timed it at 30 seconds last time. It's been up in some seriously wind-blown rain, and nothing came in round the joins.
Not trying to evangelise you, just saying it may be worth a little more research before jettisoning the idea.Enjoy whatever you get!
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If a vintage caravan might suit, have you looked at the vintage owners clubs for the various manufacturers? There is certainly a Thomson Owners Club on Facebook and I imagine there are others.
I looked at images of a Thomson Glendale - and it looks a tidy little caravan which would suit those who want 'no frills' caravanning! But quite how a vintage van would stand up to long distance towing is a bit of an unknown.
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Don't worry, we haven't ruled out pop-tops! I realised they're a very different category to folders and trailer tents. Although washrooms aren't always standard fittings within the lighter weight models. Some searching around has suggested the Trigano Silver 310 TDE with the optional shower kit. MTPLM is 1,000 kg but with much reduced wind resistance. Older models (c.2007) are starting to drop towards our budget.
Thinking about it some more, we realise that having a loo is more important to us than the shower. Unplugged camping would be an aspiration, but we realise that for a couple of nights between sites with facilities we can make do for washing as long as we have that loo!
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