Charging electric cars on Club sites.
Comments
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well (as I understand them) hybrids are either petrol plus plug in or petrol plus regenerative braking to charge the battery ie non plug in. In the case of plug in the range is usually limited, about 30 miles or so and under heavy acceleration or load the petrol engine will cut in.
There may well be those hybrids that can tow if they are heavy enough ( but I haven't seen any on sites) the Outlander springs to mind but even this has a 30 mile range on electric so won't tow a long way at motorway speeds. Are there others?
Again I would say there aren't enough electric or hybrid cars towing to justify the expense of the extra installation. When there are I'm sure sites, club or not will install them on every pitch along with EHU.
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On previous EV discussions there are few with hybrids who tow and charge up. We're waiting for towing approval for ours as are others with a full EV. At present apart from hybrids full EVs are a second/extra car rather than a tow car. In the few months we've now owned ours we've only spotted a handful of other full EV users. So a long way to go but time for the club to develop a future policy. There is a sticky in the tow car section regarding the future of towing etc.
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Again I would say there aren't enough electric or hybrid cars towing to justify the expense of the extra installation. When there are I'm sure sites, club or not will install them on every pitch along with EHU.
By then I expect that everywhere will make a charge
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but is it any different to 'paying' (which you're not really, the club pays) for other's people's hair dryers, microwave ovens, heating, computers, TVs, or even (dare I say it) awning heaters?
The pitch fee includes (16A or whatever) electricity that you (or one) pays for. What someone chooses to do with that electricity on their pitch is up to them within those limits, isn't it?
You might object to their using their electricity to charge their car, they might object to you using 'your' electricity for charging your phone or laptop, or whatever. It's not going to cost you any more however the outfit on your left or right uses their electricity?
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There were two Hybrids on Ferry Meadows earlier this year a Mitsubishi phev and a Volvo both towing big single axle c/vans,and when in conversation both owners? said they got just over 20miles on battery then the petrol engine cut in for about 30mile before they went back on battery,,but both were quite aware of the cost of new batteries and were not sure of the life expectancy of them with continual charging when towing,both were plugged into the c/van external socket while not being used,,they were also not sure how much they could also use in the c/vans while charging the cars as they had never tried and as it was summer were not useing much c/van powered kit
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I think EVs are a bit different if you are charging them fully off the EHU as the charging period will be lengthy and likely overnight, especially in winter, using power at times when you would not usually be using any.
Certainly different to charging a laptop or phone!
How much electricity does it take to fully charge an EV?
( it will of course vary depending on the size of the car)
Pennies, as brue said, would in my book be less than 10p, for that you might get 1kwh.
I think, to have a sensible discussion, we need some actual figures.
Some newspaper articles I have seen are quoting £2.50-£3.50 for a full charge, depending of course on the tariff.
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I suspect those type of hybrids will cease to be of much use in the future but they were a start. Our battery capabilities are excellent due the size, the range extender ( a small petrol motor that charges the battery and tops it up whilst travelling over certain mileages etc.) Plus the regenerative braking which can extend the battery life whilst travelling. The only thing missing is a tow bar....
edit Kj I have put "figures" elsewhere on similar threads. Just checked with OH, a ball park figure, circa £70 for three thousand miles...pints of petrol for the range extender and electricity use at home. OH is watching a film....if I get nearer the figures I'll let you know.
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We also paid around £4.75 for a full fast charge (15 mins) at an ecotricity outlet at a services. We could have paid less for a slower charge our only other charge so far was free.
Apologies for the edits. Remember electricity supply tariffs vary. At home ours is around 13p per kwh, any idea what site tariffs are?
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The cost to fully charge an EV (not a hybrid) overnight on a slow charger is roughly £3-4 so not insignificant (3kW charger for 10 hours = 30 units). Of course, many people will just be topping up so it wouldn’t cost that.
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Today yes, but electric lorries are being tested and battery powered aircraft so it is not pie in the sky (pun intended!).
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It would be interesting to have some detail, even purely from a personal point of view as, if we live long enough, our next small car is likely to be an EV.
We are fortunate that we have a driveway, a garage right behind it, the electricity meter and consumer unit easily accessible , so very easy for us to get one of the fast charging things installed.
Our problem at present is that we share our second car with our daughter and at her property it would be imposssible to install a fast charger, a long cable from her kitchen would be the only possibility.
Certainly, the running costs are going to be far lower than for a petrol or diesel vehicle, but then the purchase price is significantly higher, even though subsidised by the taxpayer, and the cost of replacement batteries will be high.
We do know a few people who have hybrid or fully electric vehicles, and without exception they have bought them to save money, not to be "greener".
Please do not take this as applying to you, but there will no doubt be some who will "take advantage" of the current situation on Club sites to charge EVs, and as we all know, the electricity has to be paid for somehow. As more EVs come into use, I can see this being a problem before too long.
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I personally would feel very guilty and uncomfortable 'charging' an EV whilst visiting a CL.
Recently we stayed on a CL during the very cold weather, rather than put the heating on 2kw we used the 1kw and gas combined option.
There are people out there that think nothing of using every piece of electrical equipment they have or the cost this brings to the CL owner, on full blown sites people justify this by saying 'I've paid enough for it I'm going to use it' with attitudes like that prices will have to rise.
Do I think EV's should charge up free of charge NO I do not. Perhaps the way the club could prevent this happening without having to install costly charging points, is to drop the bollard from 16 amps to 10 amps
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it doesn't matter what you use your electricity for Kj, and you or one can't really dictate what is good or bad according to your or someone else's (green) viewpoint
The club has stated it's view on allowing the charging of EV. If someone doesn't like it don't use club sites.
No one takes advantage, the club sets out it's price and you accept. It is up to the club to set it price (included in the pitch fee) and you can use as much or as little as you wish without thinking you are taking advantage. What you do with that electricity is totally up to you and not to someone's else to decide what is acceptable or not. I'm going out tomorrow night to an all you can eat banquet and everyone will eat what they want without thinking they are taking advantage. Same on a club site.
I've said it before the club is a business not an offshoot of the green party.
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I have just been doing a bit of research. Using figures from the Smart brochure, it uses 13 kw per 100 km. That is a laboratory calculated figure, so real life would be higher. So at 13p a kw hour about 2.7p a mile. As currently EV's on site will mainly be restricted to these small vehicles towed by MH's, and given say an average use of 40 miles a day. (£1.08 for recharge) I can see why the CC are not overly concerned at this time. However, as larger EV tow vehicles become realistic, surely this will have to change.
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yes agree fully, (going back to the OP's question) only when a fully EV can tow an 'average' caravan all the way to a site on their own will the club have to think about this. I'm sure it will happen, and EV MH as well, but it's a while away yet, 5 to 10 years maybe?
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The motoring press are predicting sales of EVs to explode over the next 2/3 years driven by the governments desire to ban non electric vehicles and new models coming to the market with much longer ranges. I'd be happy to own one right now as a local run about and to tow behind my motorhome, feasibility of the latter is looking promising.
peedee
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I know that metering etc. has been endlessly discussed previously on this forum but a simple solution is to reduce the bollard supply to 10 amps. I do wonder whether the 16 amp supply (which is almost unique to the UK) has distorted the market so that we now have electric hobs and 3 kW heating which can rarely be used outside the UK.
It would be difficult to use excessive charging power on an EV with just a 10 amp supply and it would surely go a long way to providing a “cap” on electricity usage.
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We have been very pleased with our purchase Peedee, the technology is excellent. OH was involved with the auto industry and other engineering projects most of his life and he feels the industry has finally got to grips with developments after a few false starts. Both of us feel confident with the EV, it has taken me a bit longer to adapt to the electronically led driving. I have still not discovered all the possibilities involved
I think the club will have plenty of time to adapt but I hope they are exploring the future with EVs as well as the present needs of site users.
As far as CLs go I would expect site users to discuss what they are doing with the owners if they want to charge an EV.
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Whilst recharging cars is allowed there will for evidently a sector of the membership, remain at least a perception that things are inequitable.
In that, a facility that was provided within the site fee to power the camping requirements, is here now also being used to offset the vehicle operating cost of those with such vehicles.
Knowledge of the magnitude of the actual amount of power needed might supercharge or mitigate that perception, but it will remain in those that take that view. They will continue to see others getting something they are not benefiting from and possibly they can't afford to join in taking.
It is a situation that can be addressed by metering so nobody feels aggrieved by this, nor by those who choose to be otherwise profligate with electricity, with likely a spin-off of less wasted energy.
Or alternatively, have a vehicle parking area were at no cost to the membership a vendor of recharging points can rent to site their facilities for use by those subscribing to that product; not a world different to the club's take on Wi-Fi services.3 -
but why is a cap needed? I don't expect hotels to do that. The idea of 'modern' caravanning is to have all the comforts of home. Yes there are those who want a more 'basic' touring experience and there are sites that will give them that.
The club has to compete with other sites, if the club offers 10A and the site next door 16A who will get the booking?
Also isn't there a cap at the moment? ie 16A or about 3Kw at any one time? You have paid for that, I'm not saying have every thing on to use it to the max but have whatever you need to enjoy your holiday?
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A short-term view of course?
As said IMO the perception is evidently as much an issue as the actual cost.
I personally would anticipate given the current drop in uniquely diesel and petrol powered domestic car sales things are about to change.
Then the sums both in % of EV vehicles and with the technology of the vehicles to come where their range is better catered, will not be so modest and the perception becomes more common.
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It is not the club's responsibility to supply fuel for members vehicle's, I do nor expect a filling station on a club site so why should recharging point's be provided. The decision to allow on pitch recharging was a bad move and will eventually lead to astronomical unwarranted expense for both the club and ourselves.
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