Thoughts welcomed.
We are considering a change and slight downsize in motorhome and have recently seen an Italian make which could fit the bill. Never seen one in the flesh before, does anyone have experience or knowledge of the Wingamm make?
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I looked at the website when we were looking to downsize, Micky, but they are so rare and with so few dealers that I didn’t pursue it. We were primarily concentrating on width for our downsize which pretty much ruled out most coachbuilts.
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It doesn’t encourage you to explore further I’m afraid.
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I am not familiar with this make but without access to a dealer within a reasonable distance it would have to have massive benefits over other makes to pursuade me. Other manufacturers do a drop down bed (e.g. Adria) if that is a feature that you want.
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It is, hg, but also size and quality, We've also looked at Chaussons and Swift Rio with drop down beds but I'd need to be convinced about their quality. Anyone had experience of these?
As Tinny says, the proximity of a dealership does also add to the equation but not over quality.
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Beautifully made at a price. VW is a good base for a small motorhome. They've been imported on and off for many years. Each time Wingamm 'returns' it has a different dealer. We gawp at the models with lust at the motorhome shows.
Lack of commitment to the UK, I was told that fibreglass motorhomes do not have the insulation properties of aluminium, price, and difficulty in servicing/maintaining an unusual van always put us off.
You Tube hosts a few videos with one showing the 2018 Micro costing 82k euros - probably a show model with all the extras. My perception has always been that they are Hymer A-class prices.
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Agree with a lot of points made, especially Aspenshaw....
...i looked pretty closely at the NEC a year or so back, not that i was interested in purchase but in the design, technology and build....
and make no mistake, these are fantastically well designed and put together vans, some of the designs work really well, especially for couples.
however, if the comments about the lack of dealerships are true, it will make it difficult to purchase, if many miles away...
although my quick google of the website showed two dealers in the south, Danbury at Yate (Bristol) and Essanjay at Poole.....which may change things a bit....
Micky, what van (size) do you currently have, how small are thinking of going....and perhaps proposed approx budget.
also, are you a rear lounge fan, a front lounge, must it be a PVC, perhaps only a coachbuilt?
..make up beds, fixed beds, drop down bed (transverse or longitudinally)?
....there are just soooooo many options now, especially with the arrival of the new Crafter from VW which has already seen a few brands coming up with a 'slightly larger' PVC that offers a similar but different alternative to Fiat or Merc.
i agree that Swift nor Chausson wouldn't exite me on the quality front (though Chusson are one of the most innovative design companies on the market).
with Hymer and Carthago (and Bürstner, Adria and Rapido and cheaper 'home market' offerings from Elddis, Bailey....) offering 'proper' MHs but just smaller/slimmer, there are plenty of compact choices out there.
good luck.
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Thanks folk, the suggested insulation issue is an interesting one, one I've not heard of. I will look into this. If it is problem it may be more significant for those of us who live/tour in Northern Europe. Currently own a 7.5 and looking to get closer to 6 if possible. Obviously cost is important BB but at this stage I'm not discounting any make or model. Just in the info. gathering stage.We've had panel vans, lutons, low profiles in the past and all have suited our needs at specific times. Know we fancy something a little more compact. Love the 4 wheel drive Mercedes Hymer but Mrssf cannot see my attraction in this.
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As BB says, there are so many models these days it can be difficult to choose. There is only so much you can fit into 6 - 6.5 meters length. Best to decide what features are essential e.g. continental style garage, drop down bed etc. You WILL have to take it back to the dealers for warranty work at some point, however good the quality, so dealer location is very important.
We are very pleased with our Autosleepers Broadway and at 6.3m it is comfortable to drive and has enough space for touring, however, some people want the fixed bed or a garage so this would not suit. Quality though is excellent.
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its been mentioned before, but as a 'do it all' small van.....
a-class, double floor, large drop down transverse/singles, garage for bikes, biggest kitchen (incl 'cooker') on the market, large fridge freezer, spacious front lounge, terrific build, among the best for insulation, only 5.99m long and 2.12m wide, easy to run at 3.5t.....
downside.....cost (possibly when 'loaded'), continental style lounge, not much else.....
oh what is it....?
hymer B Dynamicl Line 444......total marvel
if i could have done a deal at Highbridge, id have had one....
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It’s an impressive Motorhome. We thought that the payload was limited to keep within 3500kg. and not that keen on the sleeping arrangements but it is amazing what they have fitted in.
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Is that the one pictured on the website with a price tag in the window saying £87,056 ? I knew there was a reason I didn't buy it. This really is a rich man's Club.
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Interesting! We have a VW AS monocoque and use it all seasons, including down to -5c. Can't say I have found it cold. Our understanding is more that they stopped making them because they were a lot more expensive to produce than the more conventional MHs produced nowadays (UK types). I could be wrong of course, but we love our monocoque, it doesn't appear to have some of the damp issues that so bedevil other types, and it seems to be holding its price well, they go like a flash if advertised second hand and in good condition. The Wingamm looks very similar externally, but internally rather different. Can't fault the VW as a base!
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i mentioned the new VW Crafter base upthread, which has reminded me of another brand we looked hard at when 'downsizing' ourselves, and that is Westfalia.
Along with Hymer (as you mentioned, which you can have as two wheel drive, and is MUCH cheaper.....) Id put Westfalia up alongside Carthago and La Strada for quality small panel vans. they all make the 'standard' continental 'adria twin' layout but execute it very well...
there are even vans from these suppliers and others which have roof beds (similar in concept to older VWs but miles better in quality, execution, insulation etc) and one total 'wild card' is the Westfalia Club Joker....
also not mentioned yet, but another of our 'investigations', is IH.
Well built panel vans with their own particular style, but 'everything' was a cost extra (worse than the Germans!) and the one i looked at was nearly £80k for a panel van!!
again, some more info on preferred layout might allow more refinement of the latest 'must haves'....
good luck.
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If Downsizing, May I suggest you have a look at the products supplied by Wellhouse Leisure. They build excellent products based on Mercedes / Ford / Toyota and Hyundai vehicles. ( no Fiat, I'm pleased to say ).
They are a bit pricey but quality always is.
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K, yes they are well reviewed, but they are 'small'....these are 'day vans' IMHO and i wouldnt be looking at one for (what i would call) 'proper' motorhoming...ie weeks away....
yes, there are vans this small (VW conversions) that do have full facilities but, we are getting into the 'tiny' range...
Danbury (and of course VW itself) do top line conversions on the T6, but for someone like Micky (OP) coming from a 7.5m coachbuilt, i would imagine his opening post suggesting 'close to 6m' would see the ubiquitous Ducato right in the wheelhouse and most of the smaller vans a step too far?
hopefully M can give a bit more info on layout etc....
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as you say, Q, folk get to be polarised in their opinions of 'euro lounges'.
IMHO, the 'german' way is often 'function over form' whereas the uk lounges can be the reverse.
what do you mean by fixed seating? dont all vans have fixed seating or do you mean you want your seats to become beds?
the Euros dont generally go for this approach as they have realised that you often get the worst of both worlds....poor usupportive seating (lounging) because it has to become a bed, and jigsaw style lumpy beds because theyre made from seat....and theres the hassle of storing bedding.
however, if you mean 'fixed tables' we have one but only the base pedestal is fixed....the table moves fore and aft, even pivoting on its axis to present the longer side rather than the shorter side, which is a very useful 'trick' as the number of diners change.
when we sit at our table to eat, its like the table at home, our legs actually go underneath with the plate 'where it should be'...
lower slung UK type tables are smaller and lower, so legs dont actually fit underneath, and the plates are too low and too far away... certainly in the ones we had in our Boleros.
the 'fixed' table provide a decent stable surface for writing, typing, reading, eating etc...
i was a bit sceptical when we got our first Carthago but it has proved to be a great feature, causing no problems but curing many.
of course, if we really wanted to 'lie down' we have two huge beds to choose from, but relaxed 'resting' is (again IMHO from three years of this type of lounge) far more comfortable in a reclining, swivelling, height adjustable armchair with feet on the side sofa, than trying to get comfy in a low backed caravan style sofa with little or no decent back support...
again, just my opinion, but my back needs full support and a recliner with feet raised gives me this.
i guess if one is used to twin sofas (folk often cite advantages like 'my van can seat 8' when only two ever are in it....) then a Euro lounge will feel different....it is.....because it focusses as much on dining as it does for lounging.....but not for sleeping, which is where the twin lounge 'format' shows its weakness.
IMHO, of course....
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We looked in detail at various 6m, or less, base vehicles for conversion to our spec and really wanted a Sprinter. Unfortunately, from our point of view, only the PSA range were suitable for the end lounge layout that suits us.This is due to the longer length of the cab which, in turn, reduces the usable load space behind the front seats in the Sprinter/Crafter. Issues with vans other than the Ducato/Boxer included some or all of the following: headroom, wheel arch position, fixed bulkhead, location of chassis and drive train fittings making under floor tanks etc virtually impossible to fit.
The Ducato/Boxers have a shorter cab than most and, being fwd, have more available space around the chassis fittings. I think this explains why PVCs based on other makes tend to have either the European type layout (eg La Strada) or the traditional rock & roll beds.
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good point TW, the RWD 'gubbins' of the Sprinter takes up space, while the FWD of the Ducato has more room and allows for easy fitment of the lower Al-Ko chassis, even on some small (6m) coachbuilts...we have one...also allows for lower floor (double floor) and easier entry.
with the cab area taking up about 1.5m of the vans length, even on the Ducato, not making use of this space seems a shame IMHO, hence my preference for a front lounge (where cab seats become part of the lounge) rather than a rear one (where wardrobes and bathrooms get in the way of making good use of them
'downsizing' doesnt just mean less living space, it also (usually) means less storage space, which is why sometimes making use of the height of the van, as well as length, makes for efficient design.
beds over garages solves two problems in one go, lack of storage and 'lumpy' beds.....
of course, for some, access can be difficult which means going for lower beds and less storage.
drop down beds over an A class cab take up no living space but provide a full sized one piece 'ready to go' bed....with no storage problems for all that bedding....as it lives on the bed.
all in one washrooms become the norm in small MHs, the cleverness of the design and use of space can be a deal maker or breaker.
swing wall and teleporter designs work well, Adria has even come up with a full width washroom/shower in its latest Twin.
kitchens, too, can be a compromise too far for some...but fitting all of the above into a small space is bound to cause a squeeze somewhere.
like all prospective 'downsizers' (assuming one has the vehicle 'right') like Micky will have to weigh up the priorities and the compromises or even try for a van that tries to be all things.....
i think these are rare, with only one or two making it at 6m.....but my preferences/compromises are different from others'.
perhaps Micky will get into more detail re: his own....
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Exactly, BB. There are always compromises to be made and personal preferences come to the fore. Your preferred layout and mine are worlds apart but how good it is that we have the choice.
Downsizing was always going to be a compromise on space - that is accepted - but the real compromise for us was in the base vehicle which in the end proved to leave us no choice at all. We're getting used to it but having trouble remembering to use the left pedal.
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Exactly why we bought the Suffolk, QQ. The rear lounge was duplicating the cvan layout and the Merc Sprinter 'proper' TC auto stands head and shoulders above the others. Sadly, it became time to move on.
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totally agree, TW...
now why did i assume (wrongly) you would have ordered your Warwick on a Fiat chassis in order to get the Comfortmatic?
i realise it isnt a slush box and i also recognise your 'previous' with Fiat, but (as the bases are essentially the same) i thought you would have gone for the 'auto'.
i did try one, seemed OK, but i didnt have a Merc box to compare it with..
either way, i assume youre 'getting there' now...?
PS....for 'auto' lovers, the new Crafter (essentially an upgrade to the joint sister Sprinter project) now has the VW DSG box as used in most VAG vehicles...
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Nail on the head, BB. You weren't able to compare it with the Sprinter.
There were two main reasons we stuck with the manual Pug. We found the Peugeot 2 litre 160 engine to be smoother and possibly more powerful than the Fiat 150 equivalent. Also the auto box in the Fiat is an electronically automated manual and, knowing how the control systems work and how it operates, it seemed wisest to swerve it. We both learnt to drive on vehicles without synchromesh gearboxes so a manual box is no problem (apart from remembering) but we liked the smoothness and convenience of the Merc TC auto box.
Yes, we're 'getting there' as you put it. Although not using it to stay in at this end of the year, we've both been driving it out and about visiting the delights this area has to offer. It’s smaller size proves it was the right thing to do every time we use it. In fact, as it’s little bigger than a car, we've been able to reduce our vehicle count from three to two. See, buying a MH can save money.
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Right then Micky, over to you...
we've chewed over base vehicles, transmissions, layouts, front/rear lounges, fixed/made up/drop down beds, fixed or removable tables, washrooms, storage, garages...
anything you favour?
a PVC or a small coachbuilt?
too soon to tell?
UK or Continental?
answers on a postcard.....
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Wow, I thought Mrssf was bad enough!
I used to be decisive, I'm not so sure now!To be honest I quiet like the Rapido PVC or one of their smallest low profiles. Mrssf fancies the Rio or the Chauson Dropdown. We've had several vans over the years, all with pros and cons. Loved our Gloucester on a Mercedes auto base we had. Best was the Rapido. Probably our best loved was the Autocruise Starburst (pre swift). The Merc was a great motor but I always felt the cab was more white van like compared with the Fiats/Peugeot we've owned which are more car like in my opinion. My dream would be the Mercedes 4x4 Hymer however I'm made aware it's just a boy toy thing, guess who reminds me of this over and over again? We are off to Manchester to look at some options in January as we can't make Birmingham. We've got a year or maybe two to do the research mind, that indecision you know, it plays a part too!
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