Hydraulic caravan self levelling system
I tow a twin axle Conquereor and thanks to Anno Domini, getting underneath to fit the jack and getting the Alko wheel locks on and off each time is becoming a difficult task. A trip involves doing this four times (from strorage to home and home to site
and return). I am seeking ideas from users of any Hydraulic levelling system as being 75 next time around only says that nothing gets easier as you get older. The thought of not having to bother too much about leveing on arrival on site appeals as well,
particularly when it's raining!
I know they are expensive but so are Hotels and so on and 2/3 holidays will cover the costs I imagine and then its all free from then onwards.
Any help and thoughts would be very much appreciated.
Barry
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We're changing our Clubman to a Delta and intend fitting the E&P system. Very expensive but will avoid all those increasingly difficult manual levelling and locking tasks as we get older. Indeed without self levelling we wouldn't even consider a four-wheeler.
I'm a bit of a pessimist and look for potential problems... Everything I find on-line about the E&P system is positive - no one seems to have reported any unreliability/failure. I wonder what would be the solution if you arrived at site and found that the system wasn't working. Since the corner steadies are part of the hydraulic system, if they couldn't be lowered then you would be well and truly stuffed!
My wife is an optimist and has every confidence that the system would never let us down - she cites our motor mover on the Clubman which has worked every time for 9 years, without any attention!
We're committed now but any comments, observations, etc. about the E&P Caravan Self Levelling System would be appreciated.
Ed.
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We have the E&P system fitted to our t/a Swift Elegance 645. Have used it for two years and would not be without it. Yes it is expensive, but if you can afford it, then go for it. You will not regret it. Turning up on site, raise one side of the caravan, fit the two Alko locks, drop the caravan back down, make sure the front is pointing down and then auto level. The caravan will remain rock steady even in the strongest winds.On leaving just take the locks off, auto drop down and away you go. Fun watching the caravan self level when it is raining and you are in the car. Makes the curtains twitch in other caravans.
To answer your question about the steadies not working there is a manual override to the auto system so you can still level your caravan by hand.
Enjoy the luxury.
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Has the Conqueror twin range with their IMO very minimal user payload [as published just 160/180 kgs variant dependant] the margin to carry such a system?
I would be putting it on a weighbridge first, preloaded to how you want to run it, before getting too focused on adding more weight. My experiences doing so with two vans brings a frightening revelation, even with vans having 167% of Swift's payloads to "play" with.
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Having caravanned for 50 years without any wheel locks at all I wonder whether they are part of the problem . If fitting wheel locks is such a problem how necessary are they ? Perhaps in a storage yard, but on a campsite?
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The steadies cannot be lowered manually,but can be raised by using a tap and lever in an emergency.
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As part of the E&P system you can purchase a manual jacking point, which operates just like a hydraulic jack. Instead of the electronics doing the pressurising, you do it manually. Ours fits under the caravan just ahead of the side door, in front of the movers. So if the battery fails etc, its just a matter of locating the lever in the jacking point and away you go. If in any doubt a quick phone call to your E&P dealer will allay any worries you have.
Fitting the system may "eat into" your loading allowance but this is offset as the new corner steadies replace the existing steadies, so all that matters is the weight difference between the new and the old, not the full weight of the new system.
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Regards self levelling, with me the jury is out.
Are we to assume that the corner " steadies " are to take the weight of the 'van ? Are they going to effect the 'vans warranty ?
Anything ( el/drills included ) to help with lowering and raising the steadies is helpful, but for actually leveling a 'van !!
Happy caravanning.
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Weight, weight, and more weight. And only an electric battery in the tow car to move it about. Somehow I don't see this as the future of caravan touring.
I would be concerned about raising the caravan to fit the wheel locks or to level across the axle. Since time immemorial we have heard from manufacturers not to use the "steadies" to lift the caravan. This is not just about the steadies themselves, but the twisting stress on the chassis and on the box that is sitting on top of it. Unless the lifting system is working on the main chassis - and at points designed to take the load - it will be distorting it.
I have a vision of a caravan sitting nice and level on a pitch with both wheels on one side clear of the ground. Not only will they not be carrying any weight, the unsupported axle will be adding to the weight hanging from the points that are supported. The hard standing I was on at Old Hartley this autum needed double blocks on the "low" side, so that is 4" of lift, or dangle if on this form of support.
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I have the E&P Basic system on my Crusader Storm, this just has the main hydraulic rams between the axles and front to back levelling is done with the corner steadies. The system works very well and is worth the cost and the weight. There are a few points to watch out for though.
The manual hydraulic pump, which is an optional extra, only raises the rams so that you can still travel if the system fails, I am sure the full system allows manual use of the corner steadies if required.
The Rams don't lift very high so it is useful to carry some blocks to put under the Rams in case you run out of travel, I use 300mm lengths of scaffold board with a section of aluminium tread plate on top to spread the load.
Lifting one side of the van off of the ground makes fitting the wheel locks very easy but when you lower the van with the locks on the swinging arm suspension will cause the caravan to rotate slightly as the locked wheels hit the ground.
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After careful consideration and correspondence with E&P Hydraulics and Lunar Caravans + the points raised in this discussion I have come to this conclusion:
A hydraulic self-levelling system will be a boon to me as an aged caravaner. A full system which relies on hydraulics to deploy the levelling jacks and the corner steadies might fail (however unlikely) and that would create a real problem since a workshop repair would be necessary and the caravan unusable. However, the simpler system, comprising lateral levelling jacks only (longitudinal levelling managed by the jockey wheel and hand/drill wound steadies) would provide 90% of the advantages of the full system and none of the catastrophic disadvantages of a failure of the hydraulic system.
Tha attachment of a motor mover and/or a self levelling system massively eats into the permissible payload of the caravan. Many caravans can, however, have their MTPLM upgraded (my Lunar Delta by up to 90kg) and this comfortably compensates for the additional weight. Consequently these devices can be safely fitted to enable continued caravanning.
Thank you again for all your comments and the additional points that have been raised.
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One of the nicest benefits, only briefly mentioned, of the hydraulic system is the stability of the caravan when the rams are on the ground.
I must confess with 4 wheel mover & the E&P system, keeping the weight down is a constant battle. Some small offsets to the extra weight can be had, you do not ned to carry a jack for the wheel locks, similarly levelling ramps are a thing of the past.
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FWIW (coming rather late to this!) we have the full E&P system and are very happy with it. It's a great time saver and allows several things to be left behind (as outlined in previous posts) so there is not too great a weight penalty.
There is however one thing you need to be careful of. The hydraulic jacks protrude below the axle and the bases are only about 150mm above road level. This is fine in most circumstances, but you need to beware of a scenario where, say, you drive at a shallow angle off a raised pavement so that one of the caravan wheeels is on the road but immediately inboard of the wheel is still above the pavement. If the pavement is more than 150mm above road level you could well snag the jack, with expensive consequences.
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You and me, if you physically need it ok,but as time saver waste of money.
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I have the full system and wouldn’t be without it.
It does what it says on the tin!
levels in minutes, rock steady and also releases the weight from the suspension/ axle when parked up.
I find it hard to understand why those who dont have it, have to try and discourage others. How can they comment on something they have no experience or knowledge off?
Its the same with motor movers. These were once the demise of caravaning, but are more of the norm. Why make caravaning hard work?
As for cost, is it a lot of money? Yes, but to me its worth it.
You could say, so are the other must have extras / luxury items we have on our tow cars. The E&P is transferable to your next caravan!
I believe that it’s up to the individual to spend their money how they choose!
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these systems are getting popular on top line MHs and as an after market fit...
there was a Kon Tiki ahead of me at the Broadway MHSP....he emptied his grey wasre tank, opened the garage door, pressed a couple of buttons and the front left wheel came off the ground (by quite some margin) and this ensured the remaining water in the tank came out of the (right rear) pipe....
very neat, impressive and totally over the top, lol
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If you have not booked your fitting yet, please consider my experience with the EP system.
The system has been on our van for 5 years there was a very small hydraulic leak in the corner jacks, which required a new set of upgraded rams from the first design. This was done in one afternoon free of charge under warranty after 3 years use and all good so far.
There are 6 jacks on the system. One each end of the axle that takes the weight of the van and levels side to side. Also the jack that is used to raise the van to either fit the locks or change a wheel. The other four are at the corners and are used to steady the van rather than lift it. The ability to raise the van and spin the wheels to fit a lock when you get home is also a bonus if you need to park the van in a tight space and need to park close to an object either at the front or rear.
the extra weight is reduced by the removal of the old manual corner steadies which are surprisingly heavy.
So far we have not needed to use any planks or packers under the jacks and reduce any weight further by leaving them at home. We also do not need to carry a jack incase of punctures.
I believe the post about the manual override being only to retract the jacks is correct, however there is a hand/ manual setting which allows for the manual application of the rams rather than full auto, but this is carried out by the push of a button to apply the hydraulics and would only work if the hydraulics were operative.
In short, the buccanneer range have these fitted as standard these days, and are without doubt the one item I would not be without.
My advice is to have the full system fitted, you will not regret it. My guess is that you are able to accept the extra weight without a problem. I would not bother with the remote unless you like gadgets just have the control panel fitted inside the door. However the remote might be handy to raise the offside should you ever have a need.
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Just an afterthought, if failure of the hydraulics is worrying, don't get to thinking about the brakes on cars.
Hydraulics are pretty much bulletproof these days, any fault is likely to be in the electronics rather than the hydraulics.
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Okay, my E&P system is on my motorhome not a caravan, but it has been worth every penny. The caravan version seems very good and should not apply any nasty stresses to the van, the manufacturer really does know their business, and I the only comment I can make regarding the company who fitted mine, Specialist Automotive Products, is excellent.
Yes they are expensive but wow do they make pitching up easy.
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Perhaps we will see other manufacturers entering this market and thereby introducing competition on prices. I too would like such a system but at a much lower price.
At a £1000 I would buy but at £5000 I will have to continue using my battery drill and spirit-level.
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I suppose that to some degree it is assessed as a proportion of overall cost. On an all singing and dancing top of the range mega twin axle jobbie or MH with the proportions of a medium sized coach, both of which might need such a degree of sophistication, perhaps it's justifiable. On a small, possibly second-hand family caravan then it does look expensive.
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Very surprised at the price stated above. Much more than the £3k we paid several years ago, but pretty accurate based on a couple of adds I checked.
Ours was fitted by Courtside Conversions at Tiverton in about 4 hours. Which enabled us to have it fitted on the way to our site.
It maybe that the prices are a fixed item but might be worth a check if close to the west country or willing to book a site locally to Tiverton
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E&P £2400 - £3000 depending on side to side or all direction levelling. I assume plus fitting but might be wrong.
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If you either need it, want it, can afford it, or have the payload,
or all of the above, you will be pleased with your choice. Just be sure to remember that to self level, the front needs to be lower than level to initiate levelling.
As has been said first job on arrival on pitch. site van and fit wheel lock or locks. Single lock does not require the van to be lifted whereas the two lock twin wheelers probably do. Lower front of van slightly and press the self levelling button. Attach mains cable and head for a comfort break after a long drive and the exertion of setting up. By the time you get back cuppa ready for drinking. If only putting up the awning was as easy.
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Then there will be the exertion of moving into the caravan all the dishes, clothes, and other essentials of using it that had to be carried elswhere as the motor mover, the leveling system and the giant battery stole all the user payload allowance.
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Thanks for giving me a reason to use the old grey matter.
Lets make this discussion more scientific rather than guesswork, lets use real examples.
My van has a payload of 153kg from the factory
I could just accept this as the most I can carry and for 4 people, this could be a bit tight.
However if I use my grey matter, I can run with empty water tank, saving approx. 37kg which I can add to my payload
Take only one light gas bottle saving another 8.25 kg again adding to my payload.
The water in the flush is also included in my Miro, so some more to take account of.
I asked the manufacturer if the van could be re-plated which gave me another 60kg
Now instead of my original payload of 153Kg. I now have 258Kg in effect
Adding a big heavy Numex battery is 21Kg
Adding the EP System is 30Kg
Adding the powrtouch mover another 30Kg
Taking away the weight of the original steadies is approx. 15KG
So my added weight comes to 66Kg
Therefore by using all available options I have available to me, I could even fit an air-con unit at 29Kg and still have 10Kg of payload above my original 153KG
I hope my maths holds up and my knowledge is accurate.
Choice is a great thing.
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