Larger caravans
We are looking at buying anew Bailey unicorn Barcelona ,as we are retiring next year the plan is to tour home&abroad for a few years. Has anyone experienced problems finding sites with twin axle units.we use cl sites most of the time and as I am a truck driver,narrow roads do not phase me.can anyone with a twin axle unit can give us any insight into their experiences or problems they have encountered
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We use CLs mainly, see a lot of big twin axle vans on them. Two things to watch out for are state of ground, and entrance gates, but most folks seem to cope very well. Should be a doddle for you!
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We too have seen plenty of Twin Axle vans on Cls, which we use all year round. Just keep your eyes open for the maximum length of outfits allowed on site, as some have size restrictions.
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Whilst there are those who will say 'No problem' about travelling in Europe with a twin, there are a some problems you may face.
1. Sites with very little room to manoeuvre - either because of crowded together pitches (Spain), small pitches (Italy) or extremely narrow site roads with very sharp corners (many older European sites) where the sites were established when caravans were much smaller than they are now. Even being a 'good driver with experience' may not help - we've seen over-confident drivers damage either their caravan or site 'fixtures' when manoeuvering around some very tight corners on French sites.
2. A historic 'fear' of twin axles, because in Europe they were generally used by 'Travellers' and they aren't welcome everywhere, so instead of banning Travellers because this would be discrimination, they prohibited Twin Axles instead. This ban is sometimes fiercely applied - and sometimes rules are more lax.
3. On sites which are on routes regularly used by Travellers another tactic is to charge an enormously increased fee for Twin Axles - up to thirty euros extra. So bear this in mind when travelling, and check overnight sites before committing yourself.
Whilst Caravan Club members are always convinced that a quick phone call will convince site management teams to let them in, even with a Twin Axle, this doesn't always work, and we have personally seen a very elderly couple turned away, despite their protestations that they were Bona Fide Caravan Club members - fortunately we knew a nearby site where their twin would be accepted.
There are plenty of sites where you will have no problem at all, but at the least you may need to email ahead to check that your twin will be accepted, and you may also need a Plan B just in case Mr. Jobsworth is on duty on the check-in desk when you arrive.
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I'm tempted to enquire whether you really need one that big. Space is always nice to have but it needs to be evaluated against the downsides.
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Just a note on the side. There are quite a number of single axle caravans as big or even bigger than the Bailey Unicorn Barcelona so if twin axles are the stumbling point there's still no reason to have to deny one's self interior space.
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I agree with that Val says above. Some of the pitches we have experienced in Italy have certainly been on the small side. Even with a slightly smaller van (Valencia) we have found it very tight, and even in years gone by when we have had smaller vans it has been tight. On one occasion some years ago, we couldn't even attempt to get the awning up.
David
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For many years we hankered after a van with a fixed bed and end washroom, as in the Barcelona I believe, but was not prepared to get a twin axle due to the size and the fact that our favourite site in Italy had pitch access that made it a non starter.
We then saw the Bailey Valencia when it was launched and that solved the problem so, as CY and Lutz say,do you need one that big and,if you do, there may be there are alternatives out there?
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That’s not quite what Lutz said. He pointed out that there are some single axles vans that are as big a Barcelona at least in terms of shipping length. They may be acceptable on sites when twin axles aren’t I would question if your proposed usage is summer abroad do you need such a large caravan as hopefully most of time you will be outside. Obviously if you want to overwinter then the equation shifts.
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As Lutz said, there are alternatives.....I researched for two years before buying my Adria Isonzo. It's single axle, has a shipping length of 8.25 metres, tows like a dream, 8' wide (masses of space) with bombproof construction. Ok, it's not as 'pretty' on the inside as some British marques, but the space and reliability more than make up for that.
We have used larger/superior/XXL/all-singing-all-dancing pitches both here and abroad and not had a problem. Being single axle also makes manouvering much easier too, especially with a motor mover.
Whatever you choose, enjoy!
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We made the huge mistake - for us at least - of buying a large single axle with a fixed transverse bed. We regretted the decision immediately as we did not like the fixed bed and then found at least one site in SW France where it was physically impossible to gain access because of a tight and narrow right angle entrance turn. I should perhaps point out that this was not through lack of manoeuvring skill. I started driving tractors and trailers aged eight in the 1950's so I am considered competent. We had to accept that some of the sites in France are simply not suited to the large caravans so beloved of the English. The French and the Dutch are generally happy to choose much smaller vans and the layout of many continental sites reflects that.
Increasing age and health challenges mean that we are about to place an order for a motorhome but with our knowledge of sites in France we are oping for a short - just less than six metres - vehicle.
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Twin axle owner here...2008 Sterling Searcher, MTPLM 1900kg, with fixed bed and large rear shower room, we prefer to be "self contained" so we can go where we want without worrying about shower facilities.
We have had 10 seasons touring Europe and UK, generally 3-4 months in Europe and 1-2 months in UK each year. We go low season..late March- early July and September till late November max, so we like to have good space in the van, especially as we do not use a full awning, only a Fiamma canopy, sometimes with the side/front panels attached, and often we do not use anything at all.
We have a side fixed bed, which I think uses less floor space in a van, but does mean one of us (me) has to be more athletic getting in/out of bed in the middle of the night. The saving in floor space means we have an extra large shower room and plenty of kitchen worktop space.
Other upsides with a larger van are you get a decent size fridge/freezer and plenty of storage space. You need to be aware of payloads, If buying now I would go for a van where the payload can be uprated considerably as movers are quite heavy and long holidays abroad often lead to wanting to have a fair but of stuff wih you
In UK we have used plenty of CAMC sites, some C&CC sites, some private sites and some CLs, generally without problems. Narrow country lanes can make access through gates tricky, so we look for sites with good access as a priority.
We have a mover so can get the van into tricky places, we need it anyway to park at home.
Abroad we have been to Holland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Italy and France. Only in France has the fact we have a TA been a possible problem due to "travellers".......one site was happy to accept us when we e mailed ahead, but on arrival asked for a massively inflated site fee, so we left and found a much nicer site elsewhere.
Travelling low season, we use the ACSI discount scheme, the book indicates which sites are happy to accept TAs, but does also say you may be charged extra, so in France I would always check these days. This seems to have become more of a problem in the last few years, 2016 was the first time we experienced it.
Outside of France, nobody has given the number of wheels on our van a second thought, mainly the sites are just pleased to get customers outside of the summer season, so apart from in France, even if the listing does not say "twin axles accepted" , we would still visit and expect to be admitted without comment.
We looked at some of the UK made single axle vans with fixed beds more recently, but found them rather cramped by comparison, so are not tempted to downsize as yet, however, we also looked at the newer TAs and found them not to our liking either!
I would not consider any of the newer "fat vans" either, too wide for sensible touring, but ideal for longer stays on sites with good access.
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This was a tight pitch last year in Spain the caravan is about 8m overall. Just enough space to get to the water and waste from the back and the hitch was basically in the hedge. To be fair latter on same holiday we stayed on a site in the Loire and we had the biggest pitch we have ever had. During that holiday the caravan was only used for sleeping and washing everything else was outside. So the caravan was a waste. On the other hand we shall be using the caravan 3 more times before the end of the year and we will make full use of the interior space.
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Twin axle caravans under 2000kg have almost disappeared from the Continental manufacturers' portfolio. The first 2200kg single axle caravans are even starting to show up. It seems to be a UK thing to have twin axle caravans of moderate size.
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Forgot Austria, lovely country, on some very popular sites that have a lot of seasonal vans, we noticed they had even removed the AlKo hitch to fit the adjacent van in!
They were all parked nose to tail, so when siting them they must have started from one end.
No 6 metre spacing rules there!
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This was our pitch in Italy the last time we went in 2016. Its a bit difficult to tell, I think, but the car is mainly parked on the adjacent road. The photo was taken from next doors pitch. Notice the slope of the ground. The rear of the caravan hardly needed steadies down at all in order to get the van level. With a larger van, it would have made it really difficult to level. I specifically asked for a large pitch - some of the others were really small. The nice thing was that we had our own toilet and washroom/ shower on the pitch. That was a boon. Our pitch went as far as the middle of the central outdoor sink of the washroom.
As a comparison, a couple of the pitches we had in France. They were both was huge (and hedged) pitches. (3rd & 4th photo). Hope this is of some help.
David
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Talking of tight pitches in Italy I sometimes wonder how I got the caravan in (Picture taken at Lake Garda). Without inching with the motor mover it would have been an impossible task.
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Think very carefully about the lifestyle that you want with your Caravan. We tour almost exclusively abroad and traded up for larger and larger vans until we ended up with a Valencia. Nice van (apart from the damp) but the fixed bed is compromised on space and ultimately we found the van too large for touring Europe. Italian pitches are very small and quite difficult and towing around the lakes and over passes is not easy.
Touring is very different to what the Club actually offer - pre-booked sites with excellent facilities and bags of space. If you tour in Europe it’s better to be more compact. Also, when it’s hot you don’t need inside space nor do you need an awning, a canopy will do.
In the end we traded in our Bailey for a compact Motorhome of 6.3m and haven’t looked back. More places are accessible and touring is simpler.
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We cope OK with the Valencia abroad, but we do book and France is our most popular destination. When I book I always specify large caravan so large pitch please. It usually works and I always do my homework on the site. The Valencia suits us as we go in the UK out of season, which, for us, means using the caravan in November without an awning etc.
David
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We bought a Valencia new in 2011 and had no problems at all on our annual visits to Italy and their 'small' pitches.
Whilst they may not be the largest it is all relative and the issue that we had was the difficult access to pitches caused by the numerous trees and hedges, that made the site as attractive as it was, and this was solved by having a mover fitted.
We use our van abroad on a regular basis with most trips being in mid May to mid June but even then would not consider going without an awning. This year was the first time that we have been able to use the awning, and Isabella Sun Shine, without putting the front in for at least some of the time.
So far as what the club offer I cant comment as we use sites that, i the main, accept Camping Cheques or ACSI but have never had an issue with pitch sizes
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We changed from a long single axle caravan (Avondale) to a twin axle 'van after the former developed cracks in the side walls above the axle. We've now had three twin axle 'vans and never had any problems with sites either in the UK or Europe. Our latest 'van is a twin axle, 2.5m wide Fendt (the best 'van we've had in over 50 years of caravanning) which we keep in Italy. The towing stability is far superior with a twin axle 'van. On the subject of pitch sizes; Our pitch in Italy enables us to have the 2.5m 'van, a 3.5m deep awning and a further space of approx. 3 metres for an outside table and chairs etc. My point being that not all pitches in Italy are small, it depends on which site you go to. Given the choice I'd never go back to a single axle caravan.
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We enjoyed the extra space, stability and class of a twin axle for several years. We never used an awning because the living accommodation swallowed all of the “extras” which came with us. The car provided 175 BHP, so that it coped well with the load. However, manhandling it without motor movers in those days, was far from easy. It really didn’t like being turned on the spot and pushing it on gravel wasn’t easy either. So, I’d suggest that a motor mover is a must, an awning won’t be needed, though a sun canopy is a useful extra. A burst tyre wasn’t a major problem while we drove on to a safe spot for a wheel change. BUT, we switched back to single axles in due course, because they began to offer ever larger interiors without the weight, manhandling difficulty and occasional access problems. That’s not a decision which we are inclined to reverse. Bigger can be better, but it comes with a few disadvantages too.
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From experience, we found this a good point. As we moved up from a simple end kitchen 2-berth, through end bathroom 2-berth, to our current end bathroom 4-berth, we have noticed some degree of lack of flexibility - and this with only single axle vans. Problems, although mild, have occurred on some CMC sites and quite a few sites in France. This has been mainly when wishing to put up our awning and getting the car on pitch as well. We have only gone for the 4-berth (just the two of us) so that we have the dinette when it isn't convenient to put up the awning. There will be plenty of pitches that are large enough, but you take a chance on availability because there are many other caravaners also looking for these larger pitches. And the larger pitches seem to get snapped up first, even where an owner's van is small enough not to need a large pitch.
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