National Rally, Rallys, CLs and Non-facility Sites
I have never been to a rally of any kind, let alone a national rally. So my perspective is from 'the outside looking in'. It was my understanding that whilst caravanning seems to have become more popular over the last 20 years that rallys in general have declined with fewer attending. Never having attended a rally I have no idea how popular they are to younger caravanners. I thought that there were complaints this year of lack of places for the National Rally?
As far as the entertainment goes I cannot comment.
There were complaints about the provision EHU I read. Does this reflect the fact that fewer caravanners are prepared to go 'off grid'? People that were caravanning from 35 years back, such as me, were 'brought up' off grid. I installed electrics in my caravan 20 years ago purely because I was paying for EHU within the pitch fee on most sites and until I changed caravan 15 years ago would have been (and was) happy off grid for weeks on end. Many of those who have taken up caravanning in the last 15 years have never been off grid and I suspect have no intention of doing so.
I read that there are less CLs available year on year. I used them often up until probably 20 years ago and I can remember seeing the first CL with EHU probably 25 years ago; although it was a rarity then. Many CLs now offer EHU and I presume the reason is to get more trade. Our previous caravan bought in 2005 had some 12 volt lighting but the main spotlights were 230 volt. I think all modern vans are 12 volt lighting and LED.
There are probably more prepared to go off grid with the advent and growth of solar panel technology. Despite that and the possibility of cheaper refillable gas there are a large number of caravanners that I come across that will not use non facility sites, let alone none EHU.
My partner joined me in my caravan 17 years ago and I doubt she ever used the on board toilet in the breaks that we took. There was no shower but a large washroom were I would happily have a strip wash. We bought a new caravan together 12+ years ago with shower etc but I was not allowed to book a non facility site on our travels. That changed 10 years ago when I was making a last minute booking at Anglesey. We wanted to be close to a friend that had a static and were also meeting up with other friends who were wanting to visit NT Plas Newydd. I ended up booking the CC non facility site for 4 nights. Fliss then realised, as I already new, that non-facility sites were fine. They are, in fact, amongst our favourite sites when we tour.
I was quite surprised in September, although perhaps I should not have been given Fliss' initial reaction, when a motorhome pulled on site at Hebden Bridge with a youngish couple on board. I was looking at some site notices and overheard the conversation with the warden. They has not realised when they booked that it was a non-facility site. Despite the fact that it was around 5pm on a Saturday they chose to find another site rather than to use their own facilities over night. Fliss was also surprised when I told her which shows how folks views can change. 
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Some people just don’t like taking a number 2 in a bucket in a cupboard in their precious expensive self contained home from home. I suspect it’s as simple as that. (Without going into more precise detail)
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Re: Rallies, we have no interest in rallies whatsoever. We wouldn't be tempted to a rally even if it was a free HS serviced pitch.
Re: No facility sites, or CLs, no problem at all if there are hard standings or the grass is very hard and guaranteed dry / mudfree.
Re: No EHU, in the summer, no problem. We have done 3 days with no EHU with a small solar panel which JUST kept the battery topped up. Longer than that, or in colder weather where the Truma heating is in use draining the 12v.. I wouldn't risk it.
Re: Solar panels generally, The latest models of our van have a factory fitted 80w solar panel fitted. I am told, that to retro fit it, by a dealer, to maintain the integrity of the warranty, costs around £500... I'll pass on that one thanks.
PS Re: gas, we have an under-slung tank using autogas which costs less than half what calor costs. We use gas all the time without fear of the costs.
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Excellent post EasyT. My personal opinion is a lot of it is fear of the unknown. People build up going onto non facility sites into such a huge issue for them. The reality is it is simple, and potentially enjoyable. Even emptying the toilet I have got so used to it that I don’t give it a thought.
In the last few years it has become increasingly easy to use your own facilities This is with the advent of affordable solar panels increasing ability to generate power, LEDs both for lighting and in tv’s , I think just about all caravans are fitted with LED lights now, so they demand for power has reduced, therefore the length of time a battery will last is extended. Refillable gas bottles are certainly nice to have but not in my opinion essential. Caravans existed, before the introduction of Calorlite’s and will continue after their withdrawal. In summer months gas usage is moderate, it is in the winter that gas use increases exponentially because of heating.
Most of our caravanning is on Rally’s and no facilities, because we find it friendly and good value for money, but even when we go have full facilities we rarely use them, simply because I find it more convenient to use the very good onboard facilities, rather than trudging to an amenities block. Others may have a different view. We have on occasion if just for a quick transit stop, simply not bothered to plug in.
Of course this challenges the clubs view of the future more and more facilities in ever more expensive, more uniform sites, or indeed CLs, where toilets and showers are becoming the norm. That investment has to be paid for, by your nightly fee.
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Rallies cover a wide range of options. Some are a gathering of people who mainly meet up each weekend at different locations. They normally have organised social events, which everyone attends. At the other end of the scale are rallies which are to all extents non facility parking somewhere interesting or near another event. No organised social events - just a cheap place to park your LV. The other club Temporary Holiday Sites (THSs) are normally of this pattern. Each month there are sites like that advertised in the CMC mag to attend other events.
You will never know if rallies are for you until you try them - but no two rallies are exactly alike.
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Re: No EHU, in the summer, no problem. We have done 3 days with no EHU with a small solar panel which JUST kept the battery topped up. Longer than that, or in colder weather where the Truma heating is in use draining the 12v.. I wouldn't risk it.
With our first caravan (used regularly for 12 years) We would happily use it without EHU from start of April until Start of November without any worry about electric power. We simply plugged into the back of the car. We would also use it in Winter usually for 4 night stays as we were confined to school hols generally.
The big difference between that and the present caravan was a foot pump for water and apart from some fluorescent lighting in the front, rear, washroom and over the kitchen there were three gas lights (5 berth 'van) which came into their own at Autumn, Winter and Early Spring. We often left the front curtains open late on even in wintertime. The windows were, of course, glass. But the large one piece front window I had double glazed with a single very large sheet of perspex or plastic. Probably plastic.
Far more calor gas was used then, not only for caravans but in many households I suspect. I certainly recall many homes having a calor heater somewhere. That probably lead to relatively cheaper bottled gas.
After a break of 12 months following treatment for testicular cancer when we holidayed abroad in August and October taking flights we changed to a slightly smaller 4 berth caravan. That was used for a 7 week break in school hols without problem. By this time EHU was generally included in pitch fees and so I installed mains electric.
Would I go off EHU now? Very doubtful. No longer have a simple gas fire and so battery required for heating circulation, fridge control, water and toilet flush and motormover which is essential when I leave and arrive back at home. Apart from 3 months of the year I am likely to have to use calor for heating as well as for hot water and fridge. Probably little cheaper than EHU. When we tour I do not wish to search out a non EHU option as they are fewer and further apart given that I no longer tend to use CLs.
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We used to rally a lot and have attended 20 Nationals but I have to admit that since the modern caravan thrives on electricity and as we have grown older our rally attendance has significantly declined. I have to also admit that I am no longer enthusiastic about towing onto a muddy semi flooded field on a Friday evening. We still rally occasionally on HS or on grass in summer. Like some of you we use our own facilities extensively even on full facility sites which I know is probably the exception.
When we arrived at North Yorkshire Moors site this year a motorhomer was in the office negotiating a refund having been unaware it was a no facility site on arrival and after touring the site decided not to stay. Apart from the atrocious weather we really liked the site which is also good value for money.
Three years ago we went back to Steamer Quay after over 30 years for a few days but due to dogs illness and with a vets nearby ended up staying 10 days on the only CAMC site without electricity. We returned the following year for a week and found that the site was almost full every night with motorhomes outnumbering caravans two to one some with a number of solar panels and staying for up to maximum.
I am personally sad to see that reduction in no facility sites but accept that that is the direction the club seems to be going.
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Would I go off EHU now? Very doubtful. No longer have a simple gas fire and so battery required for heating circulation, fridge control, water and toilet flush and motormover which is essential when I leave and arrive back at home.
Exactly so ET, modern vans are very 12v hungry... I did consider solar power till I discovered it was £500 to fit it, but as many sites have EHU anyway which you pay for in the fee, I wouldn't recoup the cost unless I avoided such sites. Neither do I approve of or do wild camping which is where they ( panels ) really come into their own, so we are stuck with needing EHU for battery charging.
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There are several reasons why rallies hold no appeal for me. I am not antisocial but do like my own company although happy in company as well. I would have zero interest in social activities - I do those at home
and run what was a singles group but now is simply a group of friends.Also I don't go to to a single location but move on regularly every 5 days for 5 to 7 weeks. I would not therefore trouble to seek out rallies. Saving money on pitch fees holds no appeal whatsoever although at other times in my life doubtless would, and did, appeal.
I do think that 'mainline' caravan sites have become dearer. No doubt caused by the provision of 'state of the art' facilities blocks that must not show their age. The need for pristine sites, EHU and many other upgrades. I do see less older caravans on such sites than I commonly did.
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It seems that low amenity sites and CL's are disappearing rapidly, which is a real shame. Some of our best holidays were spent on such sites.
As the trend, due to future fuel issues now, is for more people to downsize their caravans or upgrade to Motorhomes and Campervans there is the need for choice in where to park up overnight.
There is still a place for low amenity sites for those who are touring.
K
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Just my opinion of course, but would hate to live a life where choices are so limited by, whether or not I can use my microwave or electric hot plate. It’s hardly an expression of a sense of adventure, that the club apparently wants to encourage.
Atn, Justus2, £500 for a Solar Panel your dealer is having a laugh.
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Before the boys were born we had a small cruiser which we used on the canal and rivers. We used to attend IWA rallies but since taking up, first, caravanning and then motorhoming, we have no real desire to rally. A lot of that stemmed from the problem of always having to work on a Saturday which made it all a bit pointless. I think now I prefer the simple life. Perfectly happy to cope with non facility sites as we always use our own regardless. However prefer to have electrics and hardstandings. Also prefer sites that are near to public transport or easy walking distance of a town or village so that means most CL's are out of the question. INterestingly since having the motorhome we are using more C&CC and commercial sites than we did when we had a caravan simply to give us a greater choice of sites that meet our criterion.
David
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When we arrived at North Yorkshire Moors site this year a motorhomer was in the office negotiating a refund having been unaware it was a no facility site on arrival and after touring the site decided not to stay. Apart from the atrocious weather we really liked the site which is also good value for money.
I have not used that site for very many years. Certainly more than 25 years.
I am personally sad to see that reduction in no facility sites but accept that that is the direction the club seems to be going.
I suppose that non facility sites are no longer going to be built as such. As they disappear they will not therefore be replaced. It does gall me when facilities are added to such sites though.
We use them whenever they fit in with a tour as, although we are fortunate in that site fees are not generally a concern, we simply enjoy such sites.Did I read that Cadeside is going to be extended. If so I suspect another new toilet block!
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EasyT. Looks like Cadeside will have "additional pitches and reduced storage" wonder how many, as it only has 16 it must be the smallest site on the network? Hope it doesn't change too much, it's in a good spot for M5 users and holidays.
I probably wouldn't miss formal sites at all, when younger our friends had caravans/ancient van conversions and we nearly always visited them in a field somewhere, the children could have a good run around and lots of freedom. Very different now. My friends parents ran rallies in Warwicks, I remember going to see them on rallies. I'm fairly happy with both options but like the more relaxed atmosphere of non fac sites and gatherings.
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Yes I thought it was a lot, I've not actually asked, but that is the figure I have seen on the AS owners forum, where people have paid and had them retro fitted by an AS dealer or at the AS factory ... I think it was for an 80w or was it 2 x 60w panels as per the newer vans. Certainly wouldn't have it done other than at Marquis or AS because of risking their 5 year warranty.. In reality, probably won't ever bother at all.
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We used to attend rallies with the boys, they were often more relaxed than main club sites. We used the Forestry Sites with friends for the same reason. We managed fine without EHU and facilities, the boys didn't seem to mind only having a quick wash!
We now really like the non facility sites and CL although must admit to like having EHU now. We even bought a new van with a bigger shower so could use our own more.
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It's interesting that the more sophisticated and self-contained vans have become, the greater the apparent desire for a "full-fat" site. It was the same with yachts. Facilities were very basic when I started but many boats lay to their anchor in a creek (= wild camping) then. Now with singing and dancing facilities onboard, they head for marinas and, like CAMC sites, pay handsomely for the privilege.
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A recent conversation while emptying toilet cassettes revealed that at least one fellow caravanner does not fully use the onboard facility due to his companion's thoughts of what would otherwise be lurking in the holding tank just a few feet from her head whilst in bed.
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Thread drift,
But when we did the deal on our van we were quoted a similar price. This would have been a dealer breaker, so they agreed to supply they would fit. If I remember correctly a 150W panel, cost £130 a high quality controller £100 ( an equivalent to the Truma controller is ~£30) let’s say another £75 for bits and bobs. They are easy to fit. The other consideration would be a free standing panel, almost no installation required and actually more efficient when deployed
PS
From the dreaded ebay £169.99
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It's a pity the C&MC does not have, like the C&CC, Temporary Holiday Sites, no booking needed, just turn up and go when you want, (just a few do need booking though), some run for 8 weeks and in good locations. Example: York, June to end of August, 25min walk into the city centre, next to the cycle path, bar at the sports club. £8 a night, Rowntree Park just down the road £33 a night. This is why we use them now; cheap, more outings with longer stays, off grid and solar keeps the battery charged up
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Hi Easy, well in the order of your OP it’s no, yes,yes,yes for us. We have never been on a National Rally and are unlikely to do so but we do attend rallies and use one CL that has no EHU.
We attend rallies mainly as they offer a cost effective way to Holiday in school holiday periods so good when you are taking children. We have also been doing a New Year Rally since 2003 as it is a good option if you want to spend time together with children while celebrating but it may be that we are lucky in regards to what we have on offer from our centre.
We had a solar panel fitted to our last van-120 watt app £380-as our youngest daughter lives app 400 yds from a CL which has no EHU. There is no other reason that would have persuaded us to do this, we would always go for a site with EHU, but having the SP does give a little more flexibility.
I regard to using vans facilities, if we need to we will but if we don’t we don’t.
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David, just to support Chris Rogers' earlier post.....
have a real good look at the C&CC THS sites in the back of the magazine (also via the Out and About app)...
these are (almost exclusively) non fac sites, close to towns (no planning reqd) last for 30 odd days (or more), cheap as chips at around £8-9 per night (van plus two people), no booking, come and go as ypu pleae, pay on departure....
the diary is so extensive that (should you desire) you could spend the whole spring/summer/autumn flitting from one to another....many do...
obviously a solar panel helps and cheap gas is a boon for showering.
as i say, definitely worth a look......as mentioned elsewhere, a shame the CC doesnt have such a program....
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Good post ET.
Coming from the pro rallier camp I have not really seen a decline in rallying.But this is coming from the CCC side of things as with their THS.the larger rallies i.e.Bristol Hot Air balloon rallies, over 250 units at the Fairford International Air Show all very well attended.
After attending both the National at Sandringham say 1500 units and the CCC NFOL at around 800 as the venue was smaller,rallying without hookup and using our own facilities has never bothered us.We still use our own facilities even on club sites.
But what was very noticable was the "problem" when all major caravan manufacturers changed to blown air heating or Alde and caravanners suddenly realised usage of 12v pumps etc.Hence the fitting of solar panels.
I use a 45w folding suitcase panel and this has never let us down.
One rally springs to mind was a rally at Royal Victoria country Park at Netley arranged for the three PO ships all arriving together,we travelled down from Kent pulled into the rally field which was full only to find the ships arriving at 4.45 in the morning,An early start that day and yet there where at least 200 or so all up at the unearthly hour.
As with all forums you get the "I'll never do that camp" and someone saying "Gunga Din" and people who only use full facility sites ectthats fine by me, but the peace and quite of a rally field and the friendship rallying gives suits us.
And this is for around £8.00 to say £12 pupn (Nationals are obviously dearer)
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there must be a caravan about using a wood burner, interesting concept, hickory smell wafting over the site ,lovely jubbly 😎😎
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Hi
On the non facility site topic, we are fortunate to have a forestry commission run camp site called kilvrecht about 50 miles from us. The site has toilets and costs about £10/night, the site is set in a forest and such a nice ethos that EHU or showers would ruin it. It's our off the grid site and place to go enjoy the simple things. Can't recommend it enough.
Sandy
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Never been on a rally, not our scene at all, we love being on our own! Our caravan, only the second we have owned in 33 years of touring is 33 years old, built like a tank, superbly insulated and we still love the fact that it has all that we need, re a comfy bed, a decent hob/grill, a shower and loo. We have used it in all four seasons, often in snow, and never been cold. It has both gas and electric heating for water and keeping warm, and a gas mantle for emergencies! Up for another renovation at the moment, but we hope to use it a lot more in Summer months in some remote locations. We do have a more modern MH as well though, but we still use this on no EHU sites.
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Loss of CLs, I am currently checking data for Archies POI site and have been quite shocked how many CLs I am marking down as closed.
AD, In the new Site Supplement, online today, there's a list of the new CLs opened (86) and those that have closed (85). However the latter is short of at least 11 that I have been able to identify, and there well be more.
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