Noseweight advice
Comments
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Penguinpete. You must not exceed the max noseweight allowed (seems to be 100kgs in your case). You are in danger of inducing pitching as you should put the heaviest stuff in the caravan as close to the axle as possible. Don't think that an awning (weight say 40kgs) placed as far back as possible would be able to compensate for the extra tow bar load.
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Thanks guys, what a headache all i want to take is 2 ebikes with us when we go away, my other half wants to put a bike in the van
NO CHANCE. any suggestions will help my hair grow back LOL. 0 -
Nose weight issues, when you tow with a 75 k limit your always going to wish you had a land rover, well last year I swopped the old Senator in for a Swift Challenger 580 at 1650 mp what ever, I find it a bit to and thro with loading and found that the old Jag "s" type manages quite well with around 13 stone [bathroom scales] or around eighty k but the only passenger I have on the back seat is a little pooch, so thinking that nose wieght limits are set with four people in the car eighty k is fine for me, still had a few twitch's passing trucks but apart from loony white van men passing at 80 mph it tows fine, mind you all I have in the front locker is a 10 k see thru gaslite cylinder and the waste thingy...
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It seems to me that the OP doesn’t actually know what nose weight he is towing with. Could be much higher than the empty weight he quotes. Secondly I have no idea what the real world difference between a nose weight of 80kg and 100kg is when it comes to stability. I suspect all those that have posted I wouldn’t tow with less than 100kg don’t know either.
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We have a Bailey Unicorn Valencia, we have tried the car & caravan match from this site and find it confusing and frustrating for a novice. We have put in large 2L cars in the search and they all came back as not a match e.g. Insignia. It is unfortunate that we have to Change our suitable car and feel under pressure to find a legal towing car. How do I calculate and where do we find the information. Ps car dealers don't seem to have a clue either!!
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I have no faith in CC's matching. Try here. https://towcar.info
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No car matching site is going to give you a result that is going to be 100% unconditionally reliable. Only by using actual plated figures on the respective vehicles is that going to be the case.
You say that you are looking for a legal towing car. Matching sites won't do that anyway. They may say a particular match is good or bad, but they don't normally say whether it is legal or illegal. Even a bad match can still be legal.
If you have any doubt, quote the plated figures of both car and caravan here and I am sure someone will help you sort it out.
Noseweight limits are not normally an issue which affect legality anyway.
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Nose weight is but one factor which contributes to the stability of an outfit. Information which the club could easily supply at the time of a tow car test or T.C.O.Y. i.e. The Tow ball height prior to hitching , the height when hitched up. The nose weight of the un ballasted van
These have an effect as of course does loading. Other design factors both of the car and van also have an effect e.g. Rear overhang on the car.
It would also help when choosing a tow car to know the distance from the tow ball to the rear of the car.
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True, noseweight is only one factor of many and there are lots more that you haven't mentioned such as tyre pressures, fitment of shock absorbers on the caravan, load distribution in both the caravan and the car, etc., but towball height is not one of them.
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I'm with you on that one EasyT. I have emailed the clubs so called matching service twice about my vehicles weight being totally wrong and never had a reply, even when i spoke to them at the NEC show. towcar/info is the most accurate of them all.
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tow ball height has an effect on the tendency of an outfit to be susceptible to pitching. particularly with a low nose weight .
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The higher the tow ball height the nearer the van becomes to its point of equilibrium. Dynamic nose weight when moving is different to static vertical weight . Road conditions wind pressures loading speed passing lorries lateral body movement about the chassis tyre pressures outfit suspension et al. As an empiric example quite some years ago I had a detachable tow bar fitted which was at the top end of the height spec but the outfit was level
the outfit stability was not good when this was queried a different tow bar was fitted which resulted in a slight nose down attitude result much improved stability the only difference between the two tow bars was a different detachable tow ball the only reason for changing the complete tow bar was to ensure conformity and to prevent any possible warranty issues.
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The higher the tow ball height the nearer the van becomes to its point of equilibrium.
If the down force at that height is 80kg on the towball then the van is no closer to its equilibrium than if it was 80kg at a lower height as long as the weight is measured at the actual towball height when hitched.
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The higher the tow ball height the nearer the van becomes to its point of equilibrium
I'm really not sure what you mean by this very loose term or indeed how nearer the van becomes to to it by moving the height of the tow ball or hitch? do you mean the point at which the caravan is in equilibrium? where the net sum of all the forces is zero? that is it's centre of mass or gravity, not usually referred to as the point of equilibrium?
If so this centre of mass (gravity) is somewhere near the axle horizontally and (I have no idea but) anywhere up to a third of the caravan's height vertically from the ground.
If you raise or lower the hitch from the ground the caravan will pivot around the axle and the hitch therefore moves in a circle around the axle and the centre of mass will also move in a similar circle.
How does it get any nearer it's centre of mass?
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If you raise or lower the hitch from the ground the caravan will pivot around the axle and the hitch therefore moves in a circle around the axle and the centre of mass will also move in a similar circle.
a very apt description of what can happen when for whatever reason the nose weight albeit temporarily becomes less than its static weight.
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Could you give some examples of how nose weight can change during transit? As nose weight is a moment (turning force) either the distance from the centre of mass would have to changed, this could happen when the hitch is compressed (by a cm or two?) or by things moving significantly about in the caravan and altering the centre of mass? Any more? The hitch and tow ball are connected (or should be) and move together so I would say the nose weight is pretty much fixed even if the whole outfit takes off over a bump?
and you haven't answered how and what do you mean by :
The higher the tow ball height the nearer the van becomes to its point of equilibrium
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Noseweight decreases with increasing speed because the exposed frontal area of the caravan above the roof of the towing vehicle is so much higher than its axle, resulting in quite a significant moment about the axle caused by aerodynamic drag.
Noseweight will also change instantaneously if the caravan pitches at all.
Noseweight will also reduce slightly if the towball is raised. That is why it is important to compensate for this reduction by setting the noseweight with the hitch at the same height as when the caravan is attached to the car. However, if that is done, it doesn't matter how high or low the towball is. There is no reason why it should.
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followed that up to:
That is why it is important to compensate for this reduction by setting the noseweight with the hitch at the same height as when the caravan is attached to the car.
what do you mean?
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I think some here are a little bit too pedantic about nose weight, I suggest that a weight within 10Kg of the recommended weight is close enough.
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actually just been thinking about that and I think you are confusing the weight on the car with actual nose weight? Yes the caravan will pitch the hitch upwards and pull the tow ball upwards therefore 'appearing' to make the weight on the rear car axle less, it could even lift the rear car tyres off the ground but the actual nose weight (vertical force acting on the hitch) hasn't really changed has it? It is just supported by different means. I think you mean the effect of the nose weight changes not the actual weight (force)
maybe I think too 'pure' for you engineers
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The static noseweight, if that is what you mean by actual noseweight, only changes (decreases) as the hitch is raised and increases as the hitch is lowered, but what I was referring to were dynamic changes which most definitely affect the forces going through the hitch and towball.
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Noseweight reduces as the hitch is raised and increases as the hitch is lowered, so in order to return to the desired noseweight when towing one would have to compensate for the said reduction or increase, as the case may be.
In other words, it would be incorrect to set the noseweight with the caravan level if it is not also level when hitched to the car.
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but what change are we talking about here? I have no measurements but the hitch could pivot say a max of 5 degrees either way? On a say 4m pivot to the CoM that reduces the horizontal distance to the vertical nose weight force by about 8cm? Not a great effect on the moment causing the nose weight in the first place?
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You have a nice day, too, LL.
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Some find the complexities interesting, rather than being told to shove it further back with no explanation as to what effect it may have. Not everyone can achieve good noseweights without measures taken.
But your input is greatly appreciated
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