VW Passat Estate
Just starting to look around for my next towcar and I do like the good old Passat Estate.
One thing I am wondering, how can a factory towbar have the right height and bumper clearance between all the different models?
I am looking at an Alltrack or a Twin Turbo (or even the new TSI petrol) that all have totally different tyre ratios and bumpers from other models (and probably each other). There is no mention of alternative factory fit tow bars. I am not interested in an aftermarket fitted tow bar by the way.
Didn't have this problem with my Freelander with stacks of clearance but the obvious replacement (Disco Sport) I am not very keen on.
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I wouldn't bet on it !
Worst thing about our Alltrack is the clearance between bumper and tow ball, it only just complies with Alko clearance requirements and tow ball is about 40mm higher than on non Alltrack models due to higher ride height. They make great tow cars and the electric factory fit tow bar is very easy to deploy etc but in use it is not it's best feature and hitching up without a mover would be very tricky.
Should add that we had a Freelander 2 before the VW, overall the VW is a better tow car but hitching up was alot easier with the Freelander.
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That's exactly my concern BB.
I have been told the are all the same bar across the range and that's just not going to work. I don't want to chance pot luck to having a level stable caravan.
I suppose this affects most other cars ranges as well. Cannot understand why this is not all over the various forums.
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My advice to you would be to find a car that has the tow bar fitted and give it a good measure and compare with your current steed. In our case the extra height of the ball means that our van tows level as opposed to slightly nose down as it was with the Freelander. It does tow very well and is very stable partly due to the long wheelbase of the Passat. The tow ball clearance to bumper just means that you need to be careful but I would say that I what not want to hitch up without a mover as the clearance is just too tight.
As with all tow cars there is a compromise, in every other aspect the Passat is an excellent car with huge load lugging capacity (unlike the Freelander) and much better economy, especially solo. FWIW the only car (at a sensible price) I would consider changing it for would be the new Skoda Kodiak which looks very interesting.
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We tow with a previous generation Alltrack with DSG and with a Westphalia detachable tow bar. Yes, clearance is cosy but a small compromise given the other advantages. We had an FL2 for a short while which in most ways was a far better tow car, however build, trim and material quality was not remotely upto VW standards and at 70k miles it looked and felt like it had done 170k miles. Reliability wasn’t great either albeit economy wasn’t much different to the Audi which followed and the Alltrack. All around low/mid 20’s towing and low 40’s solo. I agree about the Kodiaq, providing the noseweight is high enough. However if solo economy wasn’t part of the consideration I would really like a Touareg!
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My sincere thanks to those who have replied.
I will continue my research, no great rush to buy something else yet, just fancy a change.
I have had lots of Passats (last one a 2 lit TSI) as company cars and would be happy with another now I am spending my own money. I am fortunate to be able to have a car for the exclusive uses of Fyshing and towing so everything else is of secondary concern..
My particular FL is one of the very last to be produced so has the excellent Ford engine (Ford Mondeo 2.2) and very good build quality. Well up to anything else I have driven (I drove a lot of different cars when working)To date, reliability had been 100%.
I did look briefly at the Kodiac but a noseweight limit of 75kg (according to the CC) is way too low for a serious towcar (IMHO).
Thanks again
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Still not decided 'Fysh', me neither so after 4 years of trouble free I'm hanging on to it for another year. Just nothing out there that takes my fancy at the moment and tick all the towing boxes, but still being badgered by LR dealer to take an interest in the mundane DS.
Good luck in your search
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Hiya Dave, How you doing mate?
Yes its a surprising problem to have. I really fancy that new (ish) Bi Turbo Passat estate (largely to get more Fyshing kit inside) but if there is only a few mm of clearance they can forget it. I am old school and despite having a mover to get onto those French pitches with a Tree (you've seen 'em) in the middle, I like to hitch up with the car and reverse it into place. When I cannot do that I will buy a Tent (or a motorhome)
I totally agree, the DS just is not a patch on the later FL and not that wonderful to drive (in my opinion) either. Not tried the 240 bhp one yet though. The useless LR dealer also told me it was impossible to have a factory tow bar and a spare wheel on a DS so I told him to go and look at a 5 seater then come back when he has a bit more product knowledge. Where do they get these people from? £40 grand car and the guy selling it hasn't a clue. It's not good is it?
Might have a run over to Harrogate and have a look at an F-Pace (I know it's a DS with a Jag badge on but I am going to end up keeping the FL2 at this rate. Like you just fancy a change
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Just starting to look around for my next towcar and I do like the good old Passat Estate.
One thing I am wondering, how can a factory towbar have the right height and bumper clearance between all the different models?
I think you are right to be worried about this......
We used to tow a Compass Corona 505 behind a Passat 2.0TDi SE Estate. The tow ball height was too low and the van was very nose down even before we loaded the car or van. I could see no way to rectify the situation so ended up trading the Passat for a Disco.
I would look into it carefully, mistakes, as I found out, are expensive.
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Good advice TT.
I was going to take the plunge in a few weeks but I am going now to think about it at least until the new registration's come out in March.
I am also going to have a look round every campsite I visit over winter and take notice what others are using and what clearance / height they are towing with.
Flatcoat
I have looked at the Touareg (my neighbour had one) and I do like it
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I think you will find the 5 seat Kodiaks e.g the 190PS 4X4 version has a noseweight limit of 100kg - it's only the 7 seat versions that have the lower 75-80kg according to Skoda.
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Trouble is BB (as I have just found out) no Kodiak that has the higher 100kg limit can have even a space saver tyre fitted. I will never buy a towcar that can only use goo.
To me it's bonkers and should have ruled it out of even being considered as Towcar of the year.
Now I am thinking I will keep my current car and as proper towcars are creeping towards £40k (some over that of course) it might be a Motorhome next.
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Didn't know that, how odd. FWIW our Alltrack has a full size spare.
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Why cannot the club give the tow ball height and the clearance between the tow ball and rear of the car with the caravan hitched to the tow car when they carry out a tow car test ??
The items loaded in the car as part of the TCOY test will have a specific weight . The car and van are ballasted and the tow ball height and van hitch height are already measured unhitched as part of the TCOY evaluation so why not measure tow ball to bumper clearance ?
Publishing these figures with the additional measurement of the hitched height of the tow ball would provide a valuable insight which would help members evaluate the various Tow cars.
Most manufactures appear to hide behind the EU regulations and are unwilling to provide figures.
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One thing I am wondering, how can a factory towbar have the right height and bumper clearance between all the different models?
They cant - at least not from VW's sister Audi. The Westfalia detachable swan neck bar sits too close to the bumper on the S-Line models to fit an Alko hitch onto! We had literally had 2-3mm space!
To cut a long story short - we learnt the hard way when we ordered our new Audi.. but Audi were extremely helpful in getting it all rectified for us. We've got a Tow-trust detachable swan-neck bar which has a lot more reach - so the Alko hitch sits nicely on the ball with plenty of room to manoeuvre.
Not had any issue with the height at all.. the outfit sits very level.
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Sorry to bring this one up again.
I am still unable (after all these months) to get a VW dealer to tell me what the clearance is between the bumper on a 2018 Alltrack and the factory fitted tow ball. I have not seen an Alltrack on any site I have been on this winter.
Does anyone have one that would be prepared to measure it and tell me?
To me, its a very easy basic question any caravanner might want to know but to the (several) dealers I have approached, not one could tell me or could/would find out for me. Most Salesman looked appalled at such a question. Most had no idea at first what I was even talking about!
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All i can say is the clearance on the previous gen Alltrack is fine. The bumper profile is the same for alltrack/non alltrack but with different trim and underbody psuedo protection. Try and find an Alltrack in stock with a towbar, it is a popular option so there is a reasonable chance of finding one.
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Many thanks to all.
e.mailed VW some days ago and still waiting for their reply. Totally agree about the stealers. Got so fed up in fact with them all, if I do get one, it's going to be purchased via Broadspeed or Drive the Deal as I have had my fill of car dealers in general now.
Been looking for one FC (tape measure in pocket) but have only been able to see an Alltrack (a 2016 model) in Motorpoint and that did not have a towbar on. If you know of one, do let me know. I am Yorkshire based
Not sure how that's helping but thanks anyway Keefy . It a nice car though and one I have looked at.
cheers
Fysh
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VW customer services have chosen not to do me the courtesy of a reply to my question about clearance between the factory fitted towball and the bumper on the 2018 Alltrack. Even a "no idea" would at least be an honest answer.
I am therefore choosing to infer that the car indeed has insufficient clearance and VW do not want to admit it. Or, perhaps they are simply uninterested in an individual sale/customer. It is (literally) their loss.
Anyway, they have lost an imminent order and a £35K sale but who cares? Not VW it seems.
Thanks again to those who tried to help. It is appreciated.
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I understand your frustration but to be honest I am not sure an email to any car manufacturer would elicit a response. Personally I would phone. However given the number of towing reviews on the internet for the current Alltrack and I believe it was a past tow car of the year I cannot believe there would be a problem. If you are ordering from new simply make sure the contract order is clearly worded.
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Just had a reply from 'vw customer services.
They say the clearance is "at least 65mm".
Good job I have been like a dog with a bone over this, Alko require at least 68mm. Don't buy an Alltrack 2018 if you want to tow a caravan with the factory fitted towbar!
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I am wondering what you don't like about the Disco Sport. We changed from a Freelander 2 to a Disco Sport over 2 years ago and find it a superior tow car, more economic, with more boot capacity and generally more luxurious. Have you driven one
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Fysherman, something doesnt add up about the information you are using. i have checked my Alltrack and the clearance between the bumper and towball is 55mm and there is still room to play with the Alko so at 65mm you have ample clearance. I think the measurement you are using is from the bumper to the centre of the towball which on mine is 80mm. My Alltrack is the second VAG car i have had with a factory tow bar and both had sufficient clearance. HOWEVER neither came wired for a UK caravan (fridge/battery charging).
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Fysherman - maybe a bit late on this thread but i can relate exactly to your dilemma and my story goes as this... Audi's factory fit detachable swan neck is a Westfalia bar which doesn't give enough clearance off the rear bumper of the A4 S-Line models for the Alko hitch period. I know this having had one factory-fitted by Audi. This was subsequently changed for a detachable swan neck from Tow-Trust that had a longer reach. All electrics etc were installed by Audi so could all be coded... Moral of the story is that although all tow bars (factory or retro-fit) will be to EU standards & regulations - there is no such legislation that they have to be compatible with Stabilisers like the Alko hitch.
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Thanks for the replies
I dismissed the disco sport because I want a factory fitted towbar and a full size spare wheel. Not possible on the 7 seater! Dealer still looking into the 5 seater. ( 3 months now. Useless and expensive dealer I am afraid. Won't be darkening their doors ever again. Shame as the DS was nice to drive but needs an update in some areas.
Agree flatcoat. Seems bonkers but I was very careful to put my request in accurately an the answer came back from VW customer services "at least 65mm". Thats just not enough but I would still like to measure one myself as I am shocked by this.
Perhaps I should not be shocked given your experience with Audi.
Car dealers have no idea and even asking the right questions to the customer service departments is getting no where fast.
Why is the caravan club not all over this problem? Not interested in tow car of the year as I can work that out for myself but I do want know if the car can tow with the factory towing kit.
Too much to ask?
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Nice V6 diseasel too.
