ERA (Emergency Refuge Areas)
what do members think about the implementation of ERA's on our motorways, and will a car and van fit on one.
Moderator Comment - Title edited
Comments
-
Death and injury waiting!
No guarantee ANY vehicle that has broken down will be able to reach one. So stationary vehicle in Lane 1.
No guarantee ANY vehicle that reaches one will fit into it if there is something else there. So stationary vehicle in Lane 1.
No guarantee ANY vehicle limping along on reduced power to try to reach one will be able to maintain motorway speed. So very slow vehicle in Lane1.
The sudden appearance of a Red Cross (or whatever) to signal a lane is closed does not instantly remove vehicles from that lane so sudden braking and swerving induced.
The idea will work fine for congested lengths of motorway where traffic moves at little more than walking pace. Otherwise, consider that the motorway on which you are driving is just a dual carriageway with different coloured signs and there is no escape.
0 -
We travelled to and from Dorset on the M3 "smart" part and after two stretches of useing what in the past was the Hard Shoulder we did as most HGVs were doing used lane two as "lane one" was basically a long slip road for the next junction,and with the weight of traffic it was at times difficult to get out of lane one,
0 -
That is the difficult part. Educating us who have used motorways since the M1 was built with hard shoulders and no speed limits, What the heck is an ERA apart from a long period of time?
It is no use having a smart motorway if dumbos are going to use it!
0 -
"Smart" motorways are the dumbest idea ever.
1 -
We often see foreign registered trucks parked under bridges between the M11 and A12 on the M25, are these safe refuge's? Never seen police or breakdown services with them.
Gen Info
https://www.motoringresearch.com/advice/smart-motorways-emergency-refuge-areas/
0 -
The temporary use of hard shoulder type, such as around Birmingham on M42, are OK, as when the hard shoulder is in use the motorway is congested and speeds are much lower. Also they seem to have spent much more on the infrastructure, full width gantries and larger refuges.
The four lanes running 24/7, I refuse to call them smart, are just a cheap way to provide a 4 lane motorway and inherently dangerous. Unlike the M42 around Birmingham they are in use when traffic is traveling at full motorway speed. The gantries are infrequent and only the small square type to cover all four lanes, whilst the refuges are a joke.
Does anyone like them and think them safe? Did the planners ask anyone's views? Or was it just a good idea at the time.
They are an accident waiting to happen, and unfortunately it will probably take a serious one, with major loss of life, before they are converted to the safer temporary use type.
The M1 in this part of the world is one of the worst examples. As it moves north from Nottinghamshire into Derbyshire it goes from 4 lanes with hardshoulder to 4 lanes with nothing but the mini refuges. At least if you go from 3 lanes to 4 by virtue of the hard shoulder you get a bit of a warning.
0 -
Dangerous, Stupid and a complete recipe for disaster.
The hard shoulder was designed as the refuge for vehicles in difficulty. They work !! Why change them...
Those paper shufflers and paperclip counters in the Golden Triangle of London and the south East, have no idea what's going on in the rest of the country and have made a major screw up with this change in the law.
K
0 -
Ah, the golden triangle again.
0 -
Pssst Tinny, what is the Golden Triangle?
0 -
Mmm, could it be L - - - - - shire?
0 -
Well, . . . . .
A major project has just been completed on the M74/M73/M8 that involved making three lanes each way into four. This was done by widening cuttings and embankments, demolishing and replacing bridges, and a whole lot of other works in order to maintain a hard shoulder over all the length of the improvements (apart from crossing a railway line at Uddingston).
Well away from the Golden Triangle - this was specified and paid for by the Scottish Government as transport is a devolved matter.
0 -
Have just travelled down a 10 mile section of rubbish motorway (round Manchester) . found that most vehicles stayed in lane 2, leaving lane 1 as a hard shoulder.
Cruised along lane 1, in pouring rain at a steady 40-50, until I met a stationary vehicle. Did my underwear need changing! Visibility was extremely poor due to surface water spray.
The sooner these stupid motorways are reverted back to normal the better.
1 -
Consider the M60 as one of the worst signed stretches of road in the UK. V difficult to know if lane 1 is an exit slip road or not ( it's inconsistent in that) why can't they put arrows pointing down at each lane with the destinations above? Works very well elsewhere & is standard practice in France.
0 -
Agree with most - don't like them! We use M62 west of Leeds frequently and it is hit n miss if there are 3 or 4 lanes depending on traffic/time/weather or whatever. Its frightening when it is really busy and suddenly lane 1 is only for the next exit and you have to indicate/muscle your way back out to lane 2 which then becomes Lane 1 again!
Seems a way of getting another lane at the least cost. Has there been any untoward incidents?
1 -
If lane discipline was improved, with traffic driving on the left as they are supposed to do, except when overtaking, a lot of pressure for additional lanes would evaporate. As it is, with 'smart' motorways creating a hazardous lane 1, there is an increased incentive to sit in lane 2.
0 -
I am very glad that this subject has been raised as there are times when I find that I am 'in the wrong lane' and curse my own stupidity! (I can be stupid at times mind). When towing a caravan and desperately needing a change of lane for an exit or to stay on the correct motorway, there are the awkward drivers coming from behind that will happily let you stew in it despite the use of your indicators given in good time. In my opinion, lorry drivers in general seem sympathetic and allow you to manoeuvre. (Probably because they get hemmed in). The point about overhead arrows over every lane is a good one and would certainly make things safer.
1 -
Amazing, I actually managed to find this post using a google search. 😀I new there was one somewhere but the forum search just lists unrelated sites.☹️
Anyway, Smart all lanes running motorways was an item on the breakfast news this morning. Just about the only folk who though they were a good idea / safe, were those who designed them. Apparently they are going to increase the frequency of refuges.
Still won't help to get a caravan into one without slowing right down.🤔
0 -
An artical in today's Telegraph. The widow of a man killed in a live lane on the smart section of the M1, plans to sue Highways England for corporate Manslaughter. Apparently four people have been killed in 10 months, after being struck by traffic in the live lane that used to be a hard shoulder. A report has come to light from Highways England that found drivers were three times more likely to break down in a live lane when the hard shoulder had been removed. Also that it took an average of 20 minutes to spot a stranded vehicle and close the lane. Current plans are to double the length of SM by 2025.
0 -
I don’t understand that SL🤔, by removing the hard shoulder it has rendered vehicles less reliable & more prone to breaking down?
0 -
That makes more sense, thanks👍🏻😊. Note to self. . .’Must practice lateral thinking’
0 -
I suppose it comes down to whether we want safer motorways with hard shoulders or more flowing motorways because the extra lane has been provided.
As for those that broke down in an active lane, I wonder whether the figures have been analysed to ascertain the cause and whether that cause is avoidable.
I dislike the use of the hard shoulder but perhaps I need to understand Smart Motorways which seem to have been foisted on us without much up-front education as to how best to use them.
0 -
I suppose it comes down to whether we want safer motorways with hard shoulders or more flowing motorways because the extra lane has been provided.
To an extent I think you can have both. The M42 around Birmingham is Smart. However, there the hard shoulder is only used when the Motorway becomes very contested and speeds are much lower. Also the frequency of gantries with warning signs, CCTV and refuges is about twice that of the all lanes running system on the M1. My main issue with the M1 system is the fact it is all lanes running whatever the conditions. So you can have vehicles traveling at 60/70 mph in lane 1 approaching a broken down vehicle. Particularly at night this is a recipe for disaster. Personally I think it a cheapskate poorly thought out design.
1 -
I know where you are coming from Steve, our section of the M1, coming down from Leeds, past Meadowhall and down into Derbyshire is full on four lanes, holy s*** thundering speeds, lots of on/off junctions, full of lorries coming in from M18 and docks at Hull/Grimsby, and there are times you think how long is this hell going to last! It’s a nightmare and there have been deaths. No where to go if you are in any lane and breakdown. Stay in the car? Wham, a 40 tonner hits you. Get out of car? Only viable if in first lane, and then there’s about four feet between you and everything roaring past at 70 mph. The perfect breakdown never happens, by a refuge, with a phone, space to get out and be safe, dream on. We drive a big hefty car, Jeep Wrangler, so possibly feel slightly safer than your conventional small hatchback, but we chose not to use M1 last week to get home from Cotswolds. It’s bad.
0 -
The M3 is "smart"? at the north london end ,all the time ,bu t most of the no 1 lane are long slip roads instead of hard shoulder and it is very noticable that most HGVs keep to lane two as it is a pain as on the M25 keep changing lanes if not going off at the next junction
0
