How many is too many on a CL?
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It was a good response however I do find it rather disappointing that it has taken HO so long to reply to the OP posted at Easter. If this is the "renowned online community" I think it needs to have more input from HO. Does anyone agree? Unless I have missed any official input - in which case I apologise but it seems very rare.
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Hi Pippah45
I have recently joined the CL Department just over 2 months ago, part of my role is to monitor the CL Discussions to help the Community Manager and the rest of the social media team and answer as many questions/posts as I can.
I apologise that it has taken a long time to get a response - I will be aiming to improve that moving forward.
Thanks
Maddie
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When I reported a site near Tenby, complete with photgraphs, showing 7 units I got yhe reply that the CMC would send in the Field Team but I would not get any further response as to the outcome.
Probably won't bother next time if CMC can't be bothered to let me know the result of my complaint
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Is it, perhaps, time that the conditions for a CL were looked at and possibly modified? As it stands at the moment a CL, whatever its ground area, can only have 5 vans at any one time. For some CLs this number is a bit cramped but for many others the number could be increased by two or three or even more and there still be lots of room between units. What should determine the number is the size of the area available for pitching excluding any adjacent woodland, play areas or ponds etc where pitching isn't allowed / possible. (This also should apply to CC main sites where the overall area of the site is currently quoted I believe).
Certainly some CLs do bend the rules a bit. One in Devon that we stopped at had five vans on when we arrived mid afternoon and so we couldn't site the van on the pitch. Apparently the owner had told the occupants of one of the five that they could stay as late as they wanted before leaving. They arrived back very late afternoon without any apology to us that we couldn't get set up. What annoyed almost as much was that they took their time getting packed up, having a cup of tea before they started. Another in Cornwall had 'family' come to stay for the weekend. There were already six 'vans on site when they arrived. In this particular instance, there was still plenty of room.
To me, it seems that '5 caravans only' is a bit of an arbitrary number based on nothing at all.
Although we have stayed on some CLs where we have been the only occupants for much of the week, comments on CT suggest that more members are shunning the main sites in favour of CLs. With more and more closing, possibly for economic reasons, perhaps now is the time for a look at the number of units allowed on a CL by CL basis.
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Just hope you are good at holding your breath😜😂
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Maddie - it's not just you - the whole of CT is very short on responses to many topics. And now we understand that Facebook gets far more attention. I won't use Facebook since someone let drop my whole name which means every detail about me is in the totally public domain from my address and telephone number to my shopping habits!
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OK, Despite my earlier comments re membership, I finally stayed purely to retain access to the CL network. For me the Club site network has outpriced itself. I would never pay more than £20 per night for all the Club site facilities, and enjoy the £10 - £12 per night that the CL network offers (wit EHU)
But CL's are undoubtedly under pressure and in order to keep prices down they do need to maximise their revenue during a very short season.
Lets face it! The current regs were fine 30 - 40 years ago but simply do not work today. I for one would never consider reporting a CL owner with a large nicely mowed paddock who happens to have a couple of extra vans present at change over time. C'mon guys Get Real, - the CL network is suffering primarily due to outmoded and ancient regulations!
TF
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I tend to agree with TF. The primary legislation is an Act passed in 1960 when many vans didn't have the level of sanitary facilities they have today. The legislation is first and foremost public health based and I guess was enacted to give a basic number of vans that could be accommodated hygienically on a small site. In that respect it would appear to be due for revision
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Have to agree tigerfish as long as the facility's and area do not cause problems for other members, why not a couple of extra pitches.
I to tend to use mainly CL sites due to the high cost of many CMC sites.
As some on here argue, club sites may be heavily booked but I would hazard a guess that you would fill a lot more midweek slots by averaging out your prices and stopping the weekend only bookings until a month before departure.
what I mean by that is you wish to make a booking more than a month in advance including a weekend, then you should have to book and pay for at least 3 or even 4 nights.
This would give those members who only wish to use club sites on Friday and Saturdays a chance to book a month in advance, and the rest of us a who wish to stay longer a better chance of booking a longer stay including weekends.
I await the usual banter & complaints.
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We all complain about rules being broken on club sites for many reasons. Surely cl's are no exception. If the 5 van rule needs to be extended then both sites and members need to lobby the club
At present i'm on a cl in N. Yorks that has 12 vans on. There is only 5 pitch numbers but many ehu's. The owner even emptied a paddock of 12 sheep to fit in another van and according to the bus driver who dropped us off at the gate this site is rammed most weekends.
I will give a site report accordingly
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I would check the CL doesn't have a small private site adjacent, and just how long ago the sheep were evicted. That is a H&S issue.
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"If the 5 van rule needs to be extended then both sites and members need to lobby the club"
It's not for the club to decide on numbers. It's legislative and the club's hands are tied.
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We are happy with 5 vans, and happy to support those that have made the planning application and either gone more pitches/exCL, or added a separate area.
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I have not used CLs much for 20 years. I used to use quite a number. Cannot recall seeing more than 5 ourfits except on one occasion which was understandable and we were grateful to the owner.
WE had arrived at a CC site at around 6pm. It was by then raining stair rods. The pitches were closed and the warden phoned a local CL on our behalf and knowing that it was full (overfull in fact). We joined 4 other outfits in an area of hardstanding between stable blocks. None of us had unhitched I suspect and had simply dropped legs, filled a jug or similar with water, got inside, stripped off and changed. The rain was so heavy that without full waterproofs you were soaked through to underwear in half a dozen strides.
We stayed just overnight and the owner refused payment
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This year was the first time we were on a CL with 6 vans on, it was only overnight so not really a problem, still loads of room.
If CL'S want to expand and have more vans they should apply to the local authority for planning permission as many do. A CL is for 5 vans only otherwise they are breaching the terms of their certificate.
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Many members seem to exhibit a complete lack of understanding regarding the exemption certificate for CL's. amongst other things the number of caravans was limited to five in order for the site to exist whilst causing the least inconvenience and disruption to the locality and it's environs and that is no different today,and to that end they are exempt from planning permission, there is no way a CL with more caravans would be given the same dispensation as there are many people in government departments and elsewhere that hate the fact that certain organisations are exempted from the planning laws and the most likely outcome of a request for more caravans on a CL would be to have the exemption system abolished altogether.
The CL's I visit with electric and wc abide by the rules and are happy with their lot.Arguing for more caravans on a CL is quite illogical to me, it will just become the same as a club or commercial site and as for CL's closing, in the forty years I have used CL's this has always happened for various reasons, people move on and new ones open.
CL owners have quite legitimately circumnavigated the need for planning and agreed to the regulations in order to open a site with a maximum of five and they are at liberty to apply for planning permission for a bigger site at any time. At the same time members requiring a site with more caravans are at liberty to choose from hundreds of commercial or club sites.
Please leave our CL's alone and be careful what you wish for.6 -
Good post, Vulcan. A little internet searching reveals the truth but involves quite a lot of reading. Meanwhile, the myths perpetuate.
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We booked a site recently in Norfolk and duly arrived to find 5 vans already on site but it appeared that one motorhome had started his engine and I thought he may be leaving - so I asked him. No he said. He was just moving along a bit to enable us to pitch! He told me that the owner would not mind that we would make six vans on site - it happens all the time here. I was not happy with that. At the same time the owner walked towards us and said it did not bother him if it did not bother me - but it DID bother me so we left and looked elsewhere for a pitch. My query would be 'would anyone arriving on site knowing that 5 vans were already on, be covered by site insurance should an accident occur'. After all we all know the rule about 5 vans so why break it?
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I would not be happy to arrive on a CL and find that I was number 6. If there was a good reason (regardless of legalities) such as a vehicle breakdown, illness etc or, as I have had on a commercial site some selfish B leaving that day has gone off site and not returned until nearly 4pm, I would accept it.
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As EasyT has not used Cls for 20 years he therefore is quite happy to see the numbers decreasing. Those of us who regularly use them are more worried with the decline and wonder whether another approach is required. Each to his own view.
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We are at present on a CL that has 6 vans on tonight. It happened because one of the vans that arrived today was a week early!!! The caravanner had booked a pitch months ago and it would appear that they had forgotten the date they'd booked, and on arrival parked up on a vacant pitch. The person who was booked in for today then arrived to find no pitch available. What was the site owner to do....put an extra van on or ask the one who arrived early to leave and find another site? He chose the former as there is plenty of room on the site and then informed all the other's on site what had exactly had happened.
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In regards to where you stand legally as a member on a site that is over booked. This would have no impact on yourselves, this is the responsibility of the CL owner to manage their bookings to ensure that they are not exceeding their capacity.
If a CL owner has more than 5 vans on site and that CL is insured via the CAMC (as many CLs are), does that fact that the owner over-books their CL invalidate their CL insurance, thereby creating problems for guests if a claim against the CL Owner is necessary?
Over to you Maddie!
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But nothing that can't be fixed soon. 
