A Milestone has been Reached!
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Posted on 24/07/2017 20:57 by harrib0Reading this thread I think you should have titled it
"For Refillable gas bottle users only - no one else read this!"
That way Harry we would get no new interest! I am sure there are people out there learning from this thread of the money saving possibilities not to mention the convenience!
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I most certainly am reading and learning.
The possibility of acting on what I've learnt is being fed into the grey cells and if we get a chance at extended use of our motorhome the costs will be carefully weighed up. Maybe by then the initial outlay will have reduced too. 😉 Win win. Our van already has a solar panel but no 12v sockets so we use an invertor if needed(very rarely tv) and gas use doesn't warrant the investment just yet.
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B2, as you will have gathered, the convenience and/or savings of safefill (and the benefit of your SP) will really depend on the type of sites one stays on.
even if your stays become longer ones, staying on sites with EHU will guarantee at least two things.....prices will remain high (there is a built in charge for covering EHU) and that, having paid for it, youll use that electric in lieu of gas, if possible.
this will mean the case for safefill will not be a strong one as gas usage will low and we can always find something else to do with the £100+ for the cylinder, cant we?
however, turn it in its head and start to stay on non EHU sites, youll be saving roughly £4 a night (at, say, CCC) and closer to £8 a night based on Merves non-ehu CL experiences.
so, a saving of between £28-£56 a week would soon pay for the cylinder....say a month....£140 ish savings.....and the savings roll on after that...
ok, youll have to factor in the cost of the gas used to offset the leccy saving....
ive just had 2 weeks away on two THS sites and it cost me around £6 for the 11 ltr i used.....so, double that for a months use and the cost of gas is around £12, so we can reduce the above savings down to £128.
so, in just 2 fortnights breaks, the costs of the cylinder would roughly be recouped.
add in the convenience for those who travel abroad and the case looks far stronger.
again, we know its not for everyone, but if you already have a SP why not try a stint on a THS or similar to see how it goes.....
ps, id get a couple of 12v sockets (and perhaps a couple of separate USBs) installed so as to avoid unnecessary use of the inverter (can be a bit noisy and are a bit inefficient.....but do a job)....paid for by the ongoing savings, perhaps?
good luck
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The problem remains that there are few LPG stations around which is the main issue we have. Even in France I hear they are phasing it out as I guess its uneconomical to have to run and service a LPG pump for such small return.
We have Gaslow and recently in France we used mainly non EHU only had it if it was included. 1 Site wanted €6.5 for 6 amp but by using gas we saved a lot. One fill up over 5 nights use cost €7.80 so around €1.6 per day for gas, this was in hot weather so the fridge was going 24 hours so a saving over 5 days of €24. Cost of gas for 3 weeks was around €25ish filling up 3 times.
Funnily enough gas in France was way more expensive than here with some sites charging nearly a euro a litre, average being at least 80 cents.
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Hi Madmax, sorry, I have been busy and didn't notice your post. I have 3 SF cylinders- one of each size- the small one was a gift- the other two I bought. I started with the standard one which I bought at the 2013 rally at Belvoir Castle and was so impressed- I bought the big one which has proved to be the most used as filling intervals are greater. Gas- I have never had a problem- well once in Wales- St Davids to be precise. Let me relate the story which was on the old thread but of course the good old CC IT dept lost it! Anyway, I went in to get my cylinder filled. The guy came out to the pump as it was kept locked. As soon as he saw me reach into the car and pull out my cylinder his demeanour changed! I swear he broke into a cold sweat. Looking very nervous and not a little sheepish he exclaimed "I can't fill that , I can't fill that!" Why not? I asked(knowing why all the time). "It's a cylinder!"
"Yes", I said, "Its a cylinder built and made to refill- that's why it called a Safefill "
"No, no I can't fill that" he exclaimed and then blurted out "it's the insurance". All the time looking like he was searching for a hole to swallow him up
"Insurance?" I asked? Surely you fill cars and this is exactly the same but cylinder shaped- look" I showed him the valve!
He visibly started to relax at this point and was half convinced before regaining his fear and then saying "I haven't got the certification to fill them" (what certification might that be???) I didn't even bother asking!
Then I saw it! The Calor sticker! I looked at him and said, " Ok, you are obviously not going to fill it and can I suggest that it's nothing to do with insurance or this certification thing- it's more to do with Calor telling you not to fill them isn't it- it's OK , I know it goes on."
The realisation that he had been sussed settled in his face and he nodded and said," I just can't see"
"Well that's a shame "I said, "because you've lost business and one day, and not too far off, you will be filling these and you'll probably fill more of these than you exchange for Calor."
There was a bit more apologising from him and I left.
The next day we had arranged a trip to Tenby and I had noticed that a petrol station selling LPG was on route. We visited on the way back and noticed the stickers this time 'Gas4Wales' There was absolutely no problem this time, in fact, they could not have been more obliging. They were happy for the business. No one had or could 'lean' on them.
This scenario has happened all over the country I'm sure but now that Safefill is mainstream and they have changed Sheet 26 to accommodate these cylinders, no one can claim that there is a problem with this equipment- I expect that the filling points will grow and flourish. Why would any business turn away trade?? - Now going the Jacksons of Old Arley and not to fill my Safefills!!
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You've made the right decision M. I'm telling you now, when you start saving oodles on fill ups- when you're paying £7 for for what others are paying £24 for, you'll never look at a Calor cylinder again........well, you might- just to be thankful you haven't got a couple of them in your gas locker!! Keep us informed of how you get on !
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Well, the large one that I have is 23" tall or there abouts. I bought my large one at a time when Safefill were struggling to get stock- about two years ago, so mine is blue. The new and standard red type is probably the same dimensions. It fits in my locker (Bailey Valencia Mk1). If you have doubts measure your locker too to bottom and let me know. The width of them is very near to the standard.
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H571 W305 gross weight 15Kg net weight 10Kg = 19.5L
H468 11.6Kg 7.5Kg = 14.5L
H384 8.4Kg 5Kg = 9.5LAll Safefills are the same width.
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Just to let you all know, I have emailed both Shell and Morrisons at the moment about the new acceptance of Safefill and the changing of Sheet 26 to accommodate it and I will be emailing as many outlets and multiples as I can. However, I have asked firstly if they know of the changes and secondly what are they going to do about it? Will they be changing their policy. It might be a good idea if Safefill users did the same thing. Bring some pressure for change as it were. One man can be ignored (if indeed they are going to ignore me which I can't say yet) but many enquiries may get results much quicker. Just a thought. I am working to bring many fill points on to the network for Safefill users. Any progress and I will post immediately.
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It'll be worth the effort max. Safefill have had to endure literally years of being ignored, misrepresented, lied about, prejudiced, etc etc to bring a fantastic product to market. In my eyes they deserve all the thanks and help we can give them. It's a real David and Goliath story of modern times. I'm retired but I'm getting out there with the documentation to convince forecourts that Safefill is mainstream and doing what I can to help as many caravanners as possible to be able to fill up wherever they are able to find an LPG point.
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A lot of the discussion is also based upon changing from Calor to Safefil. The economics make even more sense when inititially starting out and not having to invest in the two Calor bottles that all dealers sell you and which unfortunately many seem not to explain the options even though a lot sell refillable cylinders. I just have the one Safefil now and no other cylinders which is also helping me with noseweight issues since changing the van a few months ago
I started out six years ago and changed to Safefil after a year due to going abroad once a year and could see the costs of having to chop in half full cylinders, as well as being a moderate gas user. Since then I definitely more than recovered my money despite always being on EHU and what is now making a bigger saving is that I have recently changed van and have the Alde heating which is brilliant but works far better when working on dual electric and gas so I am refilling a lot more than I used to.
The only downside is that the economics are not quite just buying the cylinder. Most will now need a fill extension adapter to cope with the plastic collars now fittted to many LPG pumps and which costs twenty pounds and if you go abroad and need to fill up, there are additional adapters which are a further twenty plus pounds. I am still convinced though but each one can work out our own economics!
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yes, the euro adaptors are necessary (no std fill system across Europe) but, for us and many others who use gas when 'away', a small price to pay for the flexibility....
as you say, chopping in a cylinder with any gas left is giving away serious cash back to Calor, from whom its been bought at a tidy penny.
pay, say £22 for a cylinder and then give back a kg or more and you could be handing back a fiver each change, just to ensure a full one when travelling.
just another way it costs more with exchange cylinders.
as said, this is not a system that low gas users will get any value from, but for those who arent always on ehu (aires, cl, ths etc) its definitely worth a look.
thanks again to Merve for keeping the profile high and us all in the loop.
just as an aside....i realise only a proportion of members live in my part of the world, but we have a company here called Countrywide Farmers and they have a network of LPG pumps, you just need to register (free), set up an account and get sent a key and a PIN to access their pumps.
any gas used will be billed monthly in arrears, prices move to reflect the market place.
not that many (20 ish?) but may be of use to those either living (or travelling to) the catchment area.
these pumps are generally unsupervised and open 24 hrs a day, so no issues with filling.
they arent on dedicated fuel sites and some are tucked away, but as a fall back might be useful.
anyway, good luck all.
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Good post MDD.
A lot of the discussion is also based upon changing from Calor to Safefill- it will surprise and delight just how quickly the discomfort will disappear when filling up for the first time!
Yes, it's certainly not a One size fits all scenario but for non EHUers I would say it's a game changer. Particularly now that forecourts are being informed they can fill this type of cylinder. As I have said many times, just to feel that I am no longer under the boot of Calor or Flo for their overpriced cylinders, I would have a Safefill and to hell with them! As BB says, handing back gas to Calor....oh! The thought of it!! For the flexibility alone I think the initial outlay is worth it. I have heard from Morrisons guys and gals and it is being investigated as we speak! I really can't see them coming back with a negative answer but one never knows. I am continuing to contact major chains and to market Safefill in every way I can think of. I think very soon, the fears surrounding not being able to fill a Safefill cylinder will dissipate and Safefill will become the go to cylinder for many.
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Do Countrywide Farmers have LPG at all their stores?
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i cant answer that one, CY, however, the local one to me (at Glastonbury) is in a builder/scrap yard.....Often requiring someone to move when i use that pump...Not too often....
you can check the website for locations (and presumably compare them to the store locations) but i would say most of their pumps would not be at stores.....but this is only based on my experience of the one near me.
as it happens, for all our east and south UK trips (the majority) there is a very convenient fill point at Podimore roundabout on the A303, and, if low on the return, i can call in there ready for the next trip should it be in a west/northerly direction.
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A number of years ago LPG was hailed as being the future of powering cars but I don't believe there was a great take up. With that in mind what is the future of LPG being available at local garage forecourts?
I can accept that it will be available at specialist suppliers because of the use of LPG in other spheres.
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Yes you make a valuable point - the conversion of cars has come to a dead stop- probably partly due to the Government increasing duty and the price of LPG creeping up. We all see that BP have removed their LPG points. I can only hope that the new 'revenue stream ' will be the leisure industry. The fact is though that there are many LPG points that refuse to fill Safefill Cylinders and that will be brought on line now that Safefill has been accepted as safe and refillable by the fire and safety people.
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I rally so I bought my first Safefill in 2012 the payback was 1 year. I have since invested in a second, firstly to power the bbq at home but also take on longer journeys. It was superb whilst wintering in Spain, one to use and one to fill. You have to take in to consideration that ALDE heating is so much better on gas, and no metered electricity costs, My local filling station reduces the VAT if you say it's for domestic use so I pay 31p per litre. Open your horizons, try rallys, and CL's without electricity, it's not difficult.
Finally I have to say Safefill gas cylinders have been a good purchase for me.
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