Postpeople and Porches
I am just wondering if I am being unreasonable? For years we have had a porch on the front of our house. All panels and the door are full glass so no option for a letterbox in the porch or door. However if you open the door which is never locked the letter box into the house is 2/3 feet in front of you. 99.9% of our postal deliveries are successfully made with the post being put through the letterbox. Very occasionally a new or temporary post person delivers our post but rather than putting the post through the letterbox they just throw it in the porch for all to see. We had such an incidence today so Margaret was on the phone straight away. Usually when this happens we get an apology with a promise to talk to the person concerned and problem usually solved. However today we were told that the post office cannot force an employee to enter a porch if they, as an individual, feel they are trespassing. Perhaps they feel that opening the door without setting foot in the porch is not trespassing? The man at the post office did reassure us that post should never be just thrown in a porch and if the post person is unsure they should return the post to the office! Has common sense completely gone out the window? Was the person just being lazy? Oh and BTW they left the garden gate open on the way out but I won't go there!!!
David
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I happen to know an ex postie. I asked him why, when we are away, our post is put into the letter box but often not pushed completely through. His answer was that they are told not to not even put their fingers through letter boxes as it can be classed as trespass, and they don't know if there are dogs or whatever else on the other side. Just the other day I read somewhere of a postie having fingers bitten off by a dog through a letter box. We now live in a world riddled with compensation claims, and not all homeowners are perhaps as sensible as you. In addition employees can feel very much at risk and sometimes whilst being so wary, can make bad decisions with no malice intended. However, I would agree with, return it to the delivery office if in doubt.
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David , is the glass clear or obscure? I only ask as my job involves me regularly having to knock or ring customers door. Have had the odd occasion when I have opened a porch door only to be confronted by a snarling set of gnashers . Abrupt exit stage left and straight on photo to them 😁😁.
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We've got an open porch plus a box for the post, one of our dogs used to jump up and grab the letters coming through the letterbox, the box has saved us from further problems. The dog is deaf now and doesn't react to post arriving but the box has been useful for all types of post. We're lucky we know our postmen well, they'll even leave parcels in the greenhouse if it's raining.
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not knowing the customs, laws, and practice that is required when you are a postperson (see - my E&D training paid off there) but if I was personally delivering a birthday or Christmas card to your house David I wouldn't feel happy about opening your door, or even trying it to see if it was locked. I would probably try your doorbell or knock then if no answer go away. We have a porch and also I would be very annoyed if a postie opened my door to put in an item that wouldn't fit in my letterbox, maybe that's just me?
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Could the post persons not be issued with a device - a bit like a potato masher - to use to push the mail right through? Leaving half hanging out to get wet is probably against the law, and there are all sorts of dishonest Johnnies about who would pull it out to look for credit cards and such.
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We have an inner glass panel door with glass panels either side, so nowhere sensible for a letter box. We also have a fair sized porch with double outer solid wooden doors so have a letter box in them, however mainly they are open, hooked back, unless we are away or the weather is inclement.
The post person used to just fling the letters on the mat in the porch, we had thought they might drop them through the letter box in the hooked back door so they would end up out of sight, and we had intended to get a cage to fit behind the letter box. However this rarely happened.
We therefor got a bright red, lockable, mail box, it says "post" on it and has a nice slot to put the letters through, it hangs on the wall inside the porch area. Our regular post person did eventually figure out that he/she should put the mail in it, but when we get a new post person they revert to just leaving it on the mat. Occasionally we do find things lying behind the door with the letter box in it.
I am not surprised that they leave your mail on the mat David, our post person is always in a hurry, dropping the mail on the mat is the quick and easy option.
Would never have thought that coming into a porch to put mail through a letter box could be considered as trespass!
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Not sure if they would do that, Navigateur, more likely they would keep an eye on them & if still there after a couple of days, accept the occupants were away & the property available for breaking into !!
I've known parcels etc too big for letterboxes to be put 'somewhere safe' like a dust bin and they have been duly recycled by the council operatives -- not a Tall Tale but factual alas
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The glass in the porch is clear. We don't have a dog. What I don't understand is that someone would open the door of the porch and not extend their arm enough to post the letters through the perfectly visible letter box in the main house door. As I said 99.9% of the time they do just that but we have had sufficient number of instances to cause concern. It is clearly against the rules to throw letters into a porch which anyone has access to. On the point of larger items we do instruct the likes of Amazon to put a note of parcels to be left behind a large plant pot we have in the porch but this is usually accompanied by a red slip put through the letterbox. I was chatting to a neighbour tonight who used to be a postie and he said that if it was a women it's possible they might have concerned about entering into a porch which might have more solid features because they were concerned about their own safety which I can understand but that does not apply to our porch.
David
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Iv'e never delivered mail, but did deliver parcels for a good few years. In my experience, for every householder who is happy for someone to set foot in their porch there are an equal number who are most certainly not and will complain if you do. It is possible that your postie has had a disciplinary for doing just that hence the reluctance to enter.
In my time Iv'e heard a wide variety of conflicting opinions.... why DID your driver enter our porch, why DIDN'T didn't he enter our porch, why DID your driver come round the back of our house, why DIDN'T your driver come round the back of our house, why DID your driver leave it in the greenhouse, why DIDN'T he leave it in the greenhouse. In the end, on a new round, you have no idea what individual householders rules or preferences are so are very wary.
Perhaps a notice asking for mail to be pushed through the inner letter box would help ?
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When we are away we used put up a small sign saying no free papers and requesting all other material not be left in the porch. We now no longer get free newspapers so perhaps time for a rethink on having a small notice saying all post and leaflets to be put through letterbox? Thanks for all the comments.
David
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Goodness, I just looked this up and there's even Royalmailchat where these questions are put forward (not always with politeness.....now that sounds familiar!) I see they regard this as an "insecure delivery." Gates which are closed should be shut, gates open are left open etc....you learn something every day.
It sounds like laziness David and they ask for these things to be reported.
We originally had to have a post box because there was no room to put a cage on our letterbox (to stop the dog getting at mail) and open the door fully.
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Just been out for a very nice Birthday lunch to Bella Italia only to come back and find mail strewn in the porch again
Included in this was two copies of the CMC magazine, ours and our next door neighbours!!! We have even put a note on the porch door requesting that all mail and leaflets are put through the letter box. Surely all PO staff can read plain English!!! Tried to ring the local sorting office, no reply. Tried to e-mail the Post Office, online form comes up with errors clearly they don't want anyone to contact them!!! Chief Executive next methinks!!!David
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Birthday greetings David. That certainly isn't service! I know that in Essex there were posties that couldn't read English. They were dropped off with their deliveries but roads/posties were confused so all post through right numbers but in the wrong Street!
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We have a similar setup, clear glass porch, letterbox in main door inside porch. We've never had problems with the post but local magazine or advert material is just dumped in the porch. Don't get me started on the inability of the bin men to put our bin on our property and not leave it on the pavement. It would require them to move the bin about one foot more!
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