How to thrive on a non 240v site!
Comments
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Yes BB - just been looking at them again after the show but I can really see why they are a good buy. Yes, they are expensive - X75 - £749 X125 £1,189! BUT! When you consider all the advantages of a Lithium Ion, not least of all the weight saving, they are worth it to someone like me who is never going back to EHU. They last 3-4 times that of lead acid batteries, don't produce gas, don't spill any acid, can be totally discharged (instead of the 50% of the old tech) therefore hold much more usable power etc etc I can see why non EHUers would be interested. http://www.powerxtremebatteries.co.uk
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im guessing prices will drop as the technology becomes more commonplace...
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I really think that the cost/benefit of Li-Ion is still a very long way off in the caravan/MH context.
I believe the effort should be concentrated on generating as much power as you need (almost certainly from PV) to sustain your daily demand with the minimum depletion of the available storage capacity. The batteries on my boat (purchased from a caravan outlet) are now 12 years old, and though they now have much reduced capacity, they are still perfectly functional. The battery on my caravan was of unknown age when I bought the 'van 3 years ago and has been used extensively 'off grid' but with PV charging. I have never discharged It below 70% and it still has excellent capacity.
I do consider a proper Ahr meter (one that actually measures cumulative current in-and-out of the battery via a shunt) essential for proper battery management.
Merve, you do seem to be a very heavy user of power, with your big inverter etc! There is the alternative approach of just reducing consumption
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Well not really Vic. I haven't and don't have the inverter banging away all day long! I only use it when I need to use my 240v kit i.e. Microwave, toaster etc. Otherwise it's shut off and killed through a 12v relay. The only reason I have a 2000w inverter as explained before (before the club 'lost' the original thread!) is because I don't want to be unsung it at the max- I want extra capacity if I need it. However, even if I was a 'heavy' user of electricity, I would be restricted by the battery capacity. My intention has always been to be as comfortable as I was with EHU- I am.
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I almost relish filling my Safefills these days! We returned from a fortnight in Wales having taken my 10.3 KG SF cylinder and my small 5kg as a back up which wasn't needed in the end as the 10.3 got us right the way through- just!. This morning I popped to Corby and took my 8.6 and my 10.3 for filling. They were both empty. £16.95! Working on a cylinder price of £24 (and they can be dearer) for 6kgs I have calculated that the same amount of gas in 6kg cylinders would be £75.40!!- £58.45 in my pocket and not in Calors! Then calculate what the Safefill and SP saved us by allowing us to go non EHU for 14days saving us at least £6 or £7 a night - another £84 - £98 - it's a no brainer! -looking at it another way- that's one cylinder paid for in savings. Dorset for 21 days at £4 a night soon- and just as comfortable as I ever was with EHU- the savings just go on and on.
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It may interest some of you guys to know that , although not everyone wants to go down the nonEHU road, this thread has encouraged a number to do so and to find a completely different take on caravanning. I have been contacted by 2 guys of late, Des from Northern Ireland and Kev from Yorkshire. Both have been fascinated by this thread and have both been eager to converse with me via email to further their knowledge of non EHU. Thanks to both for your interest and please, let us know your experiences - we can all learn from one another
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I've bitten the bullet and ordered a Safefill cylinder. Just have to find a good home for two full Calorlites now.
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just to reinforce that 'you can do' just about everything you would normally do on an EHU site when on a non-EHU site....
two days into the THS at Blissford (so nice here may stay a bit longer....) and two longish electric bike rides later, ive charged OH battery twice using a 500w inverter running from 2x 95AH Banners and fed by a (slightly smaller on this smaller van) 100w solar panel...
as this has been charging, the sun has been sufficient to keep the van batteries fully charged, putting back in what the bike charger takes out...
all seems to work very nicely....
...add on the cheap as chips LPG and 'the worlds your lobster'....
as my old boss used to say
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Just been a week without EHU on the "Concorde" site in Germany .Frugal with power and water of course.Good new leisure batteries,lots of sunshine too for the solar panel.Washing etc was from the hot side of the tap ,where tepid stored water (comfortable) came through .Could have used the gas ,,,,but why ??? 1 -
triky, were you at the Concorde factory and do they have an aire there?
did you not need a bit of 'hotter than tepid' water for showering or washing up, though a kettle is useful here but that means using your gas
do you have a refillable gas tank in your van?
the aire at the Carthago factory puts many a campsite to shame
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I too have just spent 3 days on a CL in the Yorkshire Dales without EHU. This has been our first time out after fitting a solar panal and buying a Safefill gas bottle along with changing all our lighting bulbs to SMDs. We were the only outfit on the site during our stay while the private site up the road behind the pub seemed to be full. I visited their website to discover that they charged a minimum of £22 per unit with added extras for awnings, extra people, extra cars and I wouldn't be surprised if they imposed a charge for the view. At first I thought it resembled a refugee camp!
We, however, had a field to ourselves on the edge of the village with just sheep and birdsong to keep us company. Now the best bit, we paid £5 per night. We felt a sheer sense of satisfaction knowing that our carbon footprint has been significantly reduced. I know everybody is different, which is a good thing, but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that a clear lack of understanding is behind most members reluctance to look into this money saving initiative. I also think the club should champion the cause rather than simply choosing to ignor progress and the obvious benefits to its members. An example of this attitude is apparent when searching for a CL site which has No EHU. A search of the directory for a site without a red tick is a painstaking exercise and using a website search is equally frustrating. I can search for a CL site that excludes dogs but not one that excludes EHU. All this begs the question, is the club being run for the benefit of its members or is there another agenda? The needs of the differing sections of the club seem to be catered for but those seeking to minimise their carbon footprint are being neglected. The Caravan and Motorhome Club rightly champions the benefits of embracing the delights of the countryside and looking after our wildlife so why aren't "we" also helping to reduce the use of fossil fuels? Puzzling!!3 -
Kevlon, an excellent post actually it is 2 posts.
Firstly going non ehu is not difficult or dangerous but people have a fear factor.
Secondly the attitude of the caravanclub. You accuse them of having an agenda. To have an agenda you need a vision, it is clear that the leadership of the club have no real vision. More interested in name changes and a new logo's rather than listening to and indeed informing its members. That's politics But the sad reality is that without support the CL network will die, except for a few that are run as hobbies.
Bottom line you don't need ehu even an idiot like me can cope, ( cope is actually the wrong word because it implies a level of hardship and deprivation that doesn't exist). What I can't do is design a new logo, or specify a yurt or glamping pod. So what do I know?
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yes its odd how some think that not having an EHU cable suggests 'hairshirt camping' and we often get the 'i left all that (slumming it) stuff behind years ago' comments....
i really think that many folk dont actually understand how their caravans or MHs work, in that most of the devices are multi fuel....
we even see folk adding twin electric plated 'grills' to complement their single van electric hotplate 'because they have already paid for the electric'...and 'wont' use gas.....
the thing is, the built in 'extra cost' of the electric is likely to be far more than they realise.....currently C&CC charge around £4.50 for this privilege....way more than the cost of using LPG, where i can fill my 11kg (22 ltr) Gaslow for around £11.
my electric is also very cheap....free, in fact, and can operate at 12v for lights, tv, charging ipads/phones etc or be converted to 230v to run a Sky box or to recharge electric bike batteries etc.
our gas Cadac serves for outside cooking...
large water tanks negate the need for regular refilling, even when using the van facs for showers and washing up so we dont miss this aspect of club sites either...
having had four days at the THS on the back of five at a club site (at 3 times the price) it was so nice to enjoy a far better environment (less noise, less people, closer to nature) and a near £20 saving a night.
isnt this what the club should be promoting?
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There's always excuses for not doing something. Must be terrible to be, stuck in such a rut.
What they don't tell you
on occasions even with ehu I have used gas if I want to warm up quickly or with the fridge to cool down quickly. That's right heating and cooling works better on gas.
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many use gas 'tongs' to dry and style longer hair, even fully fledged gas driers on ebay....though expensive as new technology...
my OH was trying to grow her hair (ended up getting on her wick...
) and had now returned to her more natural shorter, smarter style.... which, of course, means no need of a hair dryer, gas, ehu or otherwise.im sure its also perfectly possible (see merves posts....) to run a lowish power dryer from an inverter should this be a 'hairshirt deal breaker'
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Boff
Again, another red herring.......I am in the process of buying a power inverter having seen a mates in action. He demonstrated it using his vacuum cleaner (1200 watt) Kettle (700) hair dryer (1200). Microwave (700) Take a look at https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262602118327. Merve will provide more detailed information about this be area of "surviving" off grid.
I, too, have looked for reasons for not being able to make the change but every query has been answered satisfactory.
What I find interesting is that caravaning has gone full circle in that for many years we survived on gas lighting, foot pumps for the water and made a battery last no more than a weekend. Then, through the years new innovations became apparent, TVs, fridges, LED lighting, showers, microwaves etc. All these luxuries required powering, hence EHU became the obvious choice to enable us to use these amenities. Since the arrival of solar panals every single one of these, now commonplace, "luxuries" can easily be powered by the free energy provided by our Sun. During our first full day without EHU I was sat in the van truly feeling smug knowing that what I'd done has giving me completely free power. The sense of satisfaction is truly wonderful.3 -
The only problem is that free power costs a small fortune to install and maintain.
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, Hi B.B .Yes at the "Concorde" plant there is an area for parking up visitors M/homes.Also a service point for water/drain off/dump etc.
My vehicle does have a large LPG tank ,as well as a bottle for back up,with switch over facility.As regards the water temperature ,well ,we had temperature of 36-37 most of the week so the on board tank was quite a pleasant refreshing rinse !!
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"Again, another red herring.......I am in the process of buying a power inverter having seen a mates in action. He demonstrated it using his vacuum cleaner (1200 watt) Kettle (700) hair dryer (1200). Microwave (700)"
Kevlon,
I do hope you have considered where that power is going to come from? (I assume you will be relying on PV solar panels). Certainly not impossible with adequate PV capacity and battery storage, but you do need to make realistic calculations.
I can exist very comfortably and indefinitely on PV, but wouldn't entertain any of the appliances you mention.
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"I guess the stumbling block for many wanting to go fully unbilical free is SWMBO's hair dryer."
This oft repeated 'issue' always intrigues me ...... my wife has had long (right down her back) straight hair for the 40 years we've been together. She resolutely refuses to use a hair dryer because she says it ruins it!
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...of course, theres some truth in this....
however, at around £350 for a decent solar set up and £300 or less for a single 11kg gaslow system this doesnt seem a lot for the incresed flexibilty (especially abroad with non availability of calor gas and the wonderful aires system) and the £15 ish a night saving on a fully fledged club site.
id hardly call £640 a small fortune in the world of vanning, not would i say that either a solar set up nor refillable gas systems require any costly maintenance, they are maintenace free...
additionally, around 40 odd nights to break even seems a really quick payback, yet the savings (and flexibility) go on for years after that.
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I reckon that BoleroBoy's costing isn't a million miles away. Actually in my case the price was a little less about £300 for a 150W system, this includes £110 for the controller. The refillable safefill bottle cost be £105 nearly full I dropped lucky.
But what are the maintainence costs you refer to as costing so much?
Attn Kevlon, hope you realised you preaching to the converted, hairdryers don't play a large part of our lives with our without ehu
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Boff, my costings referred back to when i had an 80w system fitted to our 2nd Bolero, back in about 2011....costs have come down since then.
on our last two Carthagos the SP has been part of the deal, as has the 2nd leisure battery, and the swapping of the Gaslow system.
a Gaslow system (even a single bottle one) will be more expensive than Safefil as it requires an externally fitted filler point which accounts for about £80 from memory.
either way, happy to have (and make use of) these items primarily for the flexibility it gives us with impromptu touring in Europe and our use of no-facs THS sites.
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BB my costing weren't intended as a snipe at you. They reflected roughly what it cost me. But if I had to pay £700 would I do it. The answer is yes in a heartbeat, because it gives me the choice to go where I want not where has the best facilities.
Ps I think it was Oscar Wilde who described a cynic as someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
For me the value of my autonomy, far exceeds any cost. The fact it saves me money is a nice bonus.
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Vicmallows
At the moment I have a single 110 amp battery which I intend adding too soon but during our first three days of non EHU I can say that our routine was the same as if we'd had electric, tv (up to 4 hours a day), 2 showers per day, phones/iPads charged, lighting and we also ran a 12v fridge throughout the day. Do you think a dual battery set-up is essential for powering the items mentioned? As a matter of interest do you not you an inverter?
Like you, I'm on a crusade to highlight the massive benefits of using solar energy. I am still learning along the way and am grateful for all the advice provided so far. I think that we "converts" should proactively encourage others to adopt the systems available as it has become obvious that "our" club is failing to highlight its merits.
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