Which antifreeze for Alde system.

KjellNN
KjellNN Club Member Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭
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edited May 2017 in Caravans #1

Due to a large leak in our system (if interested you can read about it in General Chat) caused by 2 of the aluminium pipes rubbing together and making 2 holes in the pipes, I am having to drain down the system a bit to effect repairs.

We are on a site in Germany so I do not want to drain everything, so need  glycol that is compatible with the 2 year Comma Super Coldmaster that is in the system at present.

What should I look for here in Germany?   Brand or type?  Any numbers on the bottle to look for.

Please do not suggest the Alde branded glycol as getting anything "Alde" here is extremely difficult, our new parts are coming from 300km away apparently!

Comments

  • KellyHenderson
    KellyHenderson Forum Participant Posts: 76
    edited May 2017 #2

    Advice taken from Alde's website concerning antifreeze:

    Ethylene glycol (aka mono ethylene glycol, MEG, and ethanediol) antifreeze is also used in engine radiators, and is commonly available from service stations, car accessory shops and online retailers, concentrated or ready to use.

    Do not mix antifreeze containing silicates with antifreeze containing non-silicated OAT.

    Hope this helps.

     

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited May 2017 #3

    You need to look for G13 spec. This is VW spec so must be available in Germany

     

    http://www.alde.co.uk/itemdetails.php?itemId=143

     

    Hth

  • KjellNN
    KjellNN Club Member Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #4

    OK will go for the G13 spec, thanks!

    I had read what Alde say but was not sure on what  it would say on other brands.

    Now to find somewhere that sells it.  Will need concentrate as we have already topped up with water before we traced the leak

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited May 2017 #5

    I think that Alde, are relaxed about what brand you use.  They contribute occasionally to the caravantalk forum, in what seems to me in a genuine helpful, rather than a marketing pitch. They seem to offer exemplary levels of customer service. 

    As a I said previously it's a VAG group spec so any VW, seat Audi or Lamborghini and Bentley dealer should stock it.  At a cost of course. 

    For what it's worth Alde do some how to videos on you tube.  But they are confusingly under the user name king of comfort.  

  • KjellNN
    KjellNN Club Member Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #6

    Mmm, yes, I think we will avoid the car dealers!  

    I wonder what the equivalent of Halfords is in Germany?

  • trellis
    trellis Forum Participant Posts: 1,102
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    edited May 2017 #7

    KjellNN, There is or was a company called ATU  that I found to be the closest to Halfords.

  • KjellNN
    KjellNN Club Member Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #8

    Thanks, will see if we can find one.

  • mickysf
    mickysf Forum Participant Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #9
  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited May 2017 #10

    All Alde require is a g13 spec so why not?

    I notice it is concentrate so easy to use.  This is the concentrated version. Which requires diluting 50/50 but would workout cheaper 

    G13 concentrate

  • mickysf
    mickysf Forum Participant Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭
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    edited May 2017 #11

    Cheers Boff, my thought too but not certain of dilution ratio recommended by Alde or whether tap water would do, mind.

  • ocsid
    ocsid Forum Participant Posts: 1,395
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    edited May 2017 #12

    The dilution required is conveniently one part concentrate to one part water, ie 50%/50%, however a ratio of 40% product to 60% water is also fine, just a bit more of a fiddle.

    By going the easy way of 50/50 it leaves owners free to make small top ups with water a convenient solution without carrying any product around.

    Re water; apart from the normally avoided detrimental issue that water hardness can throw out calcious deposits on the all important hot bits, it can reportedly also lead to some destabalisation or shorten the life of the critical anti corrosion additives.

    So I would only use deionised water for filling the system, and for routine topping up. If requiring an emergency top up where I had not access I would as I have in similar cases used a small amount of pre-boiled tap water. Being fastidious here I know but we have a very expensive boiler that IMO for me is worth treating with best industry practice.

    Products meeting both the VW specifications G13 and earlier G12 ++ [those +s being important] whilst very good have the feature of being tolerant to be mixed with nearly every other type of auto "antifreeze" we meet in Europe. They are thus the lowesr risk ones to use where we don't know what we have or getting it is challenging. The issue is all to do with incompatibility of the various corrosion inhibitors, destabilising them and throwing out percipitations, both best avoided.

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited May 2017 #13

    The ready to use stuff appears to be 50:50 mix therefore fine to use as is.  I notice that Eurocarparts also sell it in 5L containers. In that case the price is of the concentrate is roughly twice that of the diluted.  So it would make sense to use ready to use. 

    Re the water to use.   Deionised water should be used for the reasons that Ocsid explains.  However in our case we live in an area where the water causes almost no limescale and I would probably use it to dilute. Very different to the case if you are getting water from a chalk aquifer.

    Thread Hijack alert innocent

    Our van is coming up for needing its 2 year fluid change, so I am uhming and arring about changing it myself.  I have quotes of £250   Alde will do it for I think £150.

    Ocsid a couple of questions if I may.  How many vent points does your van have? I can only find a couple in ours but I haven't searched obsessively.   Also does your van have underfloor heating?  If so what is the approximate volume of fluid did you need? 

    Thanks Boff 

  • ocsid
    ocsid Forum Participant Posts: 1,395
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    edited May 2017 #14

    Boff:

    The van we have is the Hymer “S class” the 546 S of 2007/8, without in-floor heating.

    There is a capped off quarter turn drain tap directly under the boiler access from under the van. It is brass and in road spray area so finger tightened cap tends to jam up. Mine also has mover under it making life difficult and needing mover to be covered in polythene sheet.

    There are two bleeders port and starboard right up front, the starboard requires unscrewing the seat base plywood.
    Still at the front there is another under the wrap round seating on the starboard flank. This requires removing the under seat section of the wall doubler panel and with the above seat ply removed.
    No other along the starboard flank.
    Along the port flank there is one under the hob, accessed by clipping out the under hob draw.
    Then another only a foot away under the sink, again accessed by clipping out the draw there.
    Then into the bedroom just aft of the bulkhead there is a ready accessed one.
    Finally across the rear under the French bed there is one on the starboard side. With access to all

    With access to all these bleeders priming the system is dead easy, untill I found that awkward one under the wrap round front seat it was not.

    Mine takes almost all of 5 litres of concentrate mixed with 5 litres of deionised water. Draining needs a bit of blowing through, I used a vacuum cleaner with blow feature.

    I used on the last change Comma GG40 a G13 spec product with 5 year life and one my local motor factor stocks.

    Hope that insight into Hymer's thinking helps with your van.

     

     

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited May 2017 #15

    Ocsid:  Most informative thank you.

    A couple of questions / comments ( it's part of my thought process). The drain point on Alde videos I have seen this is shown as a Brass plug rather than a valve I wonder if they changed. I will obviously have to do a systematic search for the bleed points.  You mentioned blowing down I assume that this was via one of the bleed points?  Also Alde show a pump system I assume refilling that this is not essential you can top up from the header tank (this cupboard where my clothes are so I will be extra careful) I assume the inline circulation pump can be used to assist. 

    It will be interesting to see the extra capacity due to the underfloor heating (The dogs tell me it is an essential feature that should be fitted to all caravans)

    Thanks again.