The rules don't apply to them
Comments
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My point is that the wardens already have the discretion to deviate from the rules in some areas, but if they choose not to, that is also their choice and we should not be critical if we do not agree.
Your previous observation had nothing to do with any CAMC site or the site managements opening hours in reality, but the thoughtless way that the folk in the queue had parked their outfits in blocking the path.
From the timings you suggest in your post it seems that arriving at 11.50 and by 11.55 there was an obstruction. Hardly the fault of any CAMC warden and not really a need to change club policy.
I have chosen to be a member of this club and have no problem with deviation from any rule if it is not at the detriment of others and the warden has agreed to the deviation, as allowed by the club, in advance.
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Ian, I don't use C&MC sites, I haven't for over 18months-look at my status-non member. I'm afraid your expected sarcasm is wasted on me
-sorry. Don't stress it, it just ain't good for you
. In your defence you wasn't to know I guess, I'm not one of the shouters or flouncers
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Can't you just picture the mayhem of allowing vans on from 9.30 am.
Some still packing while the new arrival waits for his pitch, but hang on the guy who turned up after 12.00 yesterday and missed his favoured pitch wants to move and claims first option on any soon to be vacated pitch.
We now have those leaving, those moving pitch and those arriving all circling the site.
Looks more like an episode from Wagon Train (give the age away there) than a peaceful site to have your breakfast.
Perhaps thats where the term Pitch Battle originated which brought about a 12.00 timeline. Just a thought.
Next we will be contemplating arrivals before 7.00am so new arrivals can get a full weekend in, oh and late departures for Sunday anyone?
Most sites including commercial have some form of arrival time rule some even as late as 14.00.
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an interesting imagination.
where ive seen it happening, its nothing like that at all. someone will always leave by 9:30, if the site was full, any van arriving after this time will only have a choice of one pitch.
if the site wasnt full, then an early arrival will have a greater choice.
ive seen a trickle feed approach in action on a site that is pretty much full from the day it opens until the season ends...
there is usually only one or two vans actually moving at any one time, it is far calmer than all vans arriving or leaving at once.
still, cc has its way, a system designed around the task list of the staff, rather than the arrival/departure requirements of its customers.
im happy to conform but Ive also seen better approaches.
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Admirable try BB, but it's pearls before swine I'm afraid
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As we all know, those requests for slightly later departures are only permitted when circumstances allow and this arrangement is well documented in the rules. As for early arrivals these are not. In considering a rule change to include these it would also have to be at the wardens discretion which would rightly be based on up to the minute site specific circumstances. This, of course, would require 'permission' to arrive early before pulling off the road and into the site entrance. l'd bet that some folk would still just tip up at site 'expecting' an early arrival without any such request being made as that may precipitate the answer they would wish not to hear.
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im sure youre right Rocky
we used 5/6 sites in a nine week tour, in a busy (overwintering) time of the year...never once were we told to wait outside until a specific time, and even though there were only a few pitchs available, it was a simple proccess to be given a site plan with the free pitches marked and to 'choose one from those available'....isnt that exactly what happens now at CC?
the only difference is that we were never held at the entrance, merely allowed in at the time we arrived and eased quietly onto site, one van at a time.
if we'd been held till (say) 12:00, other vans would have joined the queue and youd have had BM's Wagon Train scenario.
these sites avoided that very bun fight by giving access one at a time, as units arrived....far less frenetic, much safer on site, no queue out into any approach roads.....whats not to like?
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It sounds to me like the way the Club site at Edinburgh works (this Club) where admission for newcomers is from 9am. But at other sites one is told to queue.
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i would have thought that the more difficult (tight, narrow etc) the access on a site, the better it would be to be managing one unit onto that site at a time, ie removing queuing/stacking
holding vans in a queue and then releasing the flood gates only leads to queues outside (the bery thing being tried to avoid) and a glut of vans 'pitch hunting' at the same time.
tell customers they can arrive at any time will lead to a trickle feed of arrivals, and due to trip times to actually get to site, there wont be many before (say) 10:30-11:00 and (probably) none before 9:30, after the first vans have left....moving to their next site or on the road home..
tell customers they have to wait until 12:00 (or later) to get on site and you're starting to bite into their paid for holiday, one of the frustrations of these abitrary times, which invevitibly leads to early arrivals wishing to squeeze what they can from their day and the ensuing queues that go with a stipulated time....
far better to leave folk to their own devices which will lead to each arrival being at a different time.....
personally, if the clubs 'have to' go for this timed approach, I'd much rather see this moved to an earlier time of (say) 11:00.
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"l'd bet that some folk would still just tip up at site 'expecting' an early arrival without any such request being made as that may precipitate the answer they would wish not to hear."
You are so correct, Micky.
And yet, you will never accept that this is exactly the same thing that has happened with most late departers - they didn't bother asking, just in case the answer was No.
And as the title of the thread says "The rules don't apply to them"
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We always aim to arrive well after 14:00 but the other weekend we stayed at a local site and I'm afraid we arrived 20 minures early I apologised to the warden but was told that was not a problem and that we could have come at 12:00? We left the site at 19:00 but we always book the extra night as my wife hates rushing to pack away in the morning.
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Back to the usual insults.
What are the options?
1 Turn up after 12.00 as stated in club rules as agreed when joining the club.
2 Turn up early and expect to be let on site then complain if refused, hoping the rules are changed to suit.
3 Do as Rocky has done, leave the club and then still complain that comercial sites won't allow early arrival either.
As BB explains, continental sites may offer a different approach. Whatever the circumstances, the site policy is clear at the point of booking, if it doesn't suit you, do not book.
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oh, you have to book do you...?
whilst we all inderstand the rules and (generally) comply, there are a number of hot topics that keep coming up on the forum, so its pretty obvious that members feel there might be a 'better way' sometimes, rather than just slavishly doing it one way 'because its always been like that'.
queueing/stacking/obstructions outside sites at 12 ish is one of them.
the issue is caused by having and arbitrary 'opening time' where all those who wish to make the most of their break will arrive by....its human nature...
so, a bunch of folks arrive wishing to be on site at 12....this cant happen (as the wardens are in the toilets) so you get a queue.
it doesnt take much to realise that allowing the vans on one at a time as they arrive (all different times) would do away with this queue...
of course, it would introduce another problem.....one van being allowed onsite before another, and we cant have that so we all queue, how quaint.
it seems totally bonkers to me to have several vacant pitches on site, yet to hold half a dozen vans at the gate causing an obstruction.
perhaps if Wardens discretion were properly alowed, they might ease a few vans on site if not busy.....unfortunately, they cant do this 'site management' as they are in the toilets till 12
as far as customer service is concerned, this is definitely a case of tail wagging the dog.
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Well I think there is a way of sorting this, lets have another rule
When you book you tell the club where you are travelling from and the club will allocate you a departure time. then If you arrive too early you have clearly broken the rules
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Seems to me that the majority of the membership do not have a problem with the 12.00 rule and only the same few keep banging on about changing, and if memory serves, most of those do not like any of the rules.
All walks of life have some form of time constraint.
On the few occasions I have used a hotel in this country, the booking in time has been 2.00pm although check out is 10.00am
Perhaps the wardens could change the toilet cleaning times to say 8.00am to 10am so that the few could arrive early while everyone else cannot use the toilet in the mornings. Or perhaps the warden could cut the grass from 7am to 8am so that he/she could be free to clean the toilet earlier.
As pointed out earlier, there are usually 2 wardens on site most days, whereas commercial sites have a larger team.
If the club do not offer the things that are required, do as Rocky has done, we can all stop wasting membership fees and use commercial sites which are often cheaper.
I have stated many times that the rules seem quite sensible in ensuring that everyone is not inconvenienced by the inconsiderate actions of some other members.
Perhaps it is worth considering that at present, we pay for the hire of a pitch which is 24 hours, midday to midday. Would you expect to arrive from 9.30 and accept that you must leave at 9.30 or would the expectation be to leave at 12.00 or later if it suited you better?
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+1
I think you are spot on, most members do not have a problem with the current set up which ensures the very high standards in the shower block. It seems to be the ones that use club sites the least want everyone else to fit in with their views. You know the rules and procedures when you join and make a booking, just as in your example when you book a hotel. Again if you don't agree with them go elsewhere.
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i do use a mix of site providers, here and abroad. perhaps that gives me a wider pespective (than those who just use club sites) of the different processes used to manage the same issues....
like many who use suppliers, there may be things that we arent totally happy about but dont specifically wish to ditch them...
having views about how processes might be improved is surely not a bad thing, and i wouldnt wish to be lobbed in with carrying out 'the inconsiderate actions of some members'.
on the contrary, just mulling over how a recurring theme (queues outside sites when sites have spaces, frustrated members) could be better managed, based on my experience of many providers.
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BM, how about hiring the pitch for 24 hrs from 10:30 till 10:30, and as we all know (thanks Micky for our daily reminder) we could always stay later with Wardens Discretion
sorted
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Are you suggesting that the queue forms at 10.30 and everyone now has to leave site by 10.30. Not really sorted anything , just changed the time of the queue.
Or. Are you suggesting that the arrival and departure time becomes totally fluid and arrivals at 8.00pm Friday as MM may find appealing would leave site at 8.00pm Sunday having paid for 2 nights, whereas at present to stay from late Friday to Sunday 8pm would incur paying for 3 nights. Not sure any site would give up 33% income, and the management would seem much more difficult as bookings would be difficult to juggle.
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Not sure how you've included me
I can think of the times I've stopped on at a CC site after 12 on one hand & have 3 or 4 fingers left over. Conversely, its not unheard of for a board outside the office with a departuretime on it. My gripe is the inflexibility of leaving people outside an empty site till the stroke of mid-day ...... because they can. And same site, a week later, people were arriving at 11:30 am as we left.0 -
BM, youre probably overegging the pudding....
its not difficult, as MM says, just be a bit more flexible about arrivals, no queueing when there are spaces on site...makes for far better use of the space, and happy customers....
...and if we really wanted to ride the Customer Service wagon, CC could change the departure time on a Sunday to (say) 16:00 (but lets not go there.....
) despite these two simple measures probably killing two of the most oft 'threaded' issues on CT....and for completeness, why not move frenzy day to 10:00 on a sunday morning and the whole of CT (other than two or three i could think of) would be delighted
have a good day, all...
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I see your pudding just became a banquet.
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but i have a very healthy appetite
either way, the club isnt going to change a thing (it's wholly apparent that it doesn't understand how to properly manage change) so we'll do what we always do....operate within the 'rules' but spread our custom around the many choices we all have.
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With the amount of money the club must be raking in if they can waste so much on rebranding, Perhaps there is no need to change a thing, which probably suggest the silent majority are happy with the way the club is run.
Good to air alternate opinions though.
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