Removing a radiator - advice please
I am planning on removing a radiator in the kitchen so that I can tile behind it. This could be for several days, due to me being slow and the need to leave time for grouting etc.
Also, I may replace the radiator for a more modern type.
My questions to all the DiY experts out there -
Is it sufficient to turn off the thermostic valve and the lock-shield valve, or do I need to cap the flow and return pipes?
Secondly, if / when I fit the new rad I will need to shorten or extend the pipework on at least one side. If I turn off the heating (turn off the power supply to the boiler) will there be a problem (i.e. flood) when I cut the pipe on one side?
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I once did as you are suggesting with your rad valves in our en-suite and went away for a few days mid task ...... the insurance paid for a new carpet due to the flood. I just never gave the thermostatic valve a thought.
You'll flood the place when/if you cut the pipe before either of the valves. Ideally you'll need to drain the system around the radiator .... depends really on where your boiler is relative to the radiator and whether the pipe works goes up or down to the rad. Freezing the pipe is also an option .......
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If the radiator valves are both switched off, including the thermostatic one if fitted, there should not be a problem. It is possible to cut the pipe to extend but a right B if you fluff it. When I had a pipe replaced in the bathroom for a new radiator I suggested that I would assist. Plumber cut the pipe; I put my finger over the end and then when he was ready the fitting was shoved in place with very little spillage. Not a method for the faint hearted.
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If you were to replace like for like radiators, same size, same pipe fit, then you could probably valve off quite easily. But if not, draining down would probably be safest and less prone to water damage. My OH took out an old radiator and put in a much nicer more architectural one in our old house, drained down system prior, and we had no damage. Refilling requires patience and just checking each and every radiator in house a good few times to eliminate air locks, but we found it a good check on al radiators to ensure valves working ok. It's not a big job draining down, just more time consuming. If you can, fit a hose pipe to lowest drain point and take water out through this. Good luck.
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Ian,
Turning off the thermostatic valve will not work -as soon as the room cools down the valve will reopen .
We learned this many years ago when we bought our first house and were decorating before we moved in. My dad removed the radiator and I called round to the empty house the following day. Opening the front door I was astounded to see the ground floor covered in an inch of water and the sound of water still pouring of the radiator pipes. All carpets were obviously saturated and took days and days to dry!
There are two ways
1) When purchased the thermostatic valve may have been supplied with a plastic top which replaces the thermostatic head and can be screwed down tight to stop the spindle rising.
2) Any plumbers merchants/B&Q etc will sell a female cap end which is simply screwed on to the side of the thermostatic valve ( in place of the radiator. You can also use a cap end on the lock shield valve to be doubly safe. I can't remember what diameter the cap ends are but are probably 22mm and 15mm
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A good quality thermostatic valve will have an off position. Mine has various temperature settings then a frost protection setting then an off position. Some cheaper valves may not have this. If yours have it you will be fine, but don’t forget to close the lock-shield valve as well making a note of the number of turns required to close it, and when you have finished the tiling open by the same amount as this value is usually used to balance the system properly.
You will not be able to cut the pipe on the live side without draining down the system unless you invest in a freezer kit which will freeze the water in the pipe allowing you to cut it and make the required modification, but I would recommend draining the system.
If you do drain the system don’t forget to add some inhibitor (Sentinel or similar) when you refill.
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Thank you for all your tips and advice.
Anyway, took the radiator off today, after closing both valves. No real problem, just put old towels under to catch a few spills.
The thermostatic valve only has a 'frost' setting, not an 'off' setting.
Put the central heating on to check it and there was a dribble from the thermostatic valve - probably a cheap and nasty one.
So......decided to remove it and fit a capping fitting. Decided to use the 'Easy T method', unfastened the thermostatic valve, put my thumb over the pipe (which was like a geyser!) and had the capping fitting ready to put on.
Trouble was, the old brass olive appeared to be welded to the pipe, preventing me from putting on the capping fitting
Refitted the thermostatic valve and accepted the dribble for a while. Have now turned the heating down so low that it would take an ice age for it to come on. We will just have to manage until the tiling is done and the new rad is fitted.
For the latter, I will need a freezing kit........or a good, cheap plumber!
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'So......decided to remove it and fit a capping fitting. Decided to use the 'Easy T method', unfastened the thermostatic valve, put my thumb over the pipe (which was like a geyser!) and had the capping fitting ready to put on.
Trouble was, the old brass olive appeared to be welded to the pipe, preventing me from putting on the capping fitting'.
That is why I offered to help the plumber ............. two man job.
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I am not sure this is the time of year to be attempting to change elements of the central heating system. Removing a radiator to do some decorating is one thing but anything that requires new parts to the pipework is best left to warmer times of the year where it makes no difference if you have the heating on. It also allows you to drain the system down making any work far less risky. By all accounts we have an artic blast coming our way. You won't be the most popular person with Mrs H if she has no heating
David
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I would just drain down, you only need to take it below the level of that radiator.
If you isolate all the rads first by closing all the valves, the fluid to drain will be minimised, and there will be less new inhibitor required.
Is it a combi or a regular boiler? System or Megaflow type HW?
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That's a good suggestion,KjellNN.
I assume that would leave all the radiators full and just empty the pipework?
I'm seriously considering draining, to avoid freezing the pipes and to enable the new radiator and valves (and associated changes to pipework) to be fitted and this could be a good compromise.
This would also enable me to fit a drain valve for future use, as the builder clearly didn't anticipate ever needing to drain the system.
The water in the radiator that I took off was really dirty so the full system (including radiators) could do with draining and flushing, but I might leave that for the summer.
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No drain valve? What were they thinking of!?
Yes, the rads should stay full if the valves shut off completely.
If you are draining, how will you do it if there is no drain valve? Open a valve on the rad you have removed and collect the water a bowlful at a time?
The pipework below the level of the rad to be changed will not need to be drained, so once water stops coming out at the rad position you are ok.
Our drain valve is on a tee off the lowest point of the underfloor pipes and is a small tap thing just outside the wall of the house, very neat.
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Well, the job is done.
Took KjellNN's and others' excellent advice. Closed off all the rads, Drained off through the valves of the removed radiator (a couple of bucket fulls only), removed the old valves and installed the new, large towel-rail style radiator (very smart!).
Even fitted a drain-off valve below the rad in the downstairs loo.
Opened all the rads and refilled the system (keeping the pressure below 1.5 bar) and bled all the rads.
Result......no leaks and after a bit of balancing, the system works better than ever! Our study never used to get warm and now it's noticably warm.
Thank you for all your great advice. This is what a good forum is all about!
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Good job done Ian. Thermostatic valves are liable to open on there own days later even when set to the lowest setting as I have found out,
Shouldn’t you use corrosion inhibitor when topping up after a major drain down.??
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