Uprating the "Weight Plate"
Hi All,
I have ordered my new reg Bailey MH to be delivered March 1st.
I have got why I consider to be a good deal, by the end of our negotiations the dealer and I were haggling over how much fuel would be in the Van, so in my past experience thats when the deal is close to the bone for the sales person.
I recently contacted the dealer to ask to have the weight plate uprated to over 3500kg because this would save me £70 per year in RFL. The dealer said there would be a charge for this of £400. I've done some research and some manufactures offer the "plate" at no cost. Whats your experiences? I am thinking that the sales person is just trying to claw back some of the deal that we've struck by saying theres a £400 charge. I've emailed Bailey Customer Service but had no response.
Thanks
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Ours was uprated FOC, in fact it was an option given to me at purchase with no cost involved. The only draw back is speed limits and lane restrictions on certain roads and to be honest, neither are a problem to me! Just relax and enjoy the 'journey', afterall, that's what I bought it for!
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You can't upgrade the weights on motorhomes willy nilly. Sometimes a modest weight increase to say 3650kg [as in my case] is possible with just a sticker change and that should be less than £300 and often free.
The higher up the plating range you go, the more you need to change on the van.
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agree with the last two posts....
upgrading the max weight to (say) 3650 does NOT change the max axle weights, which on the Fiat 'light' 3.5t chassis will be 1850 kg (front) and 2000 kg (rear),
irrespective of any RFL implications (savings) you should get the dealer to weigh your van (empty, if you like) including axle weights.
which Bailey model are you having, the larger '75' (7.5m) vans will be almost impossible to run at 3.5t...
believe me, i have just gone through the same process on a much shorter and much lighter van than yours and running at 3.5t is really difficult.....i actually rejected the gan as it was not 'doable' at the lighter weight.
the MIRO weights for Baileys dont allow for any fresh water these days, so the 75-2 will only have a payload of 215 kg with a full water tank.
after weighing, you (almost certainly) will need to add in at least three quarters of a tank of fuel.....around 70kg.
then add in 75 kg for the OH and a 'nominal' 75 kg for each of your possessions (clothes, books, computers, shoes, boots etc) and you are now at the limit.....no capacity for food, crockery, cutlery, kettles, pots, pans, all tha lovely stuff folk stick in the boot/garage.....bikes etc, etc....
and with a long van with a long overhang, the rear axle weight will 'blow' before you reach the 3.5t limit, so raising it to 3650 wont make any difference at all.....
weigh the van.....your van, as theyre all different....this should be easy for the dealer as they usually have those weighing pads...
do not go by the brochure or listen to a salesman.....
stay legal and safe.....
i dont post this to scare anyone, but to help folk whove never considered 'weight' to understand some of the pitfalls.
good luck.
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Baileys have Alko super low rear chassis, so dont use standard Fiat chassis. Fitting rear air suspension aids would allow the weight to be uprated considerably but would cost about 400 pounds, so perhaps this was what the salesman meant ? (being tactful here).
Anything over 3500kg puts it in to PHGV catagory which is 165 pounds a year tax.
Like BB i think the 3500kg limit for coachbuilt motorhomes is totally unrealistic, and inviting lawbreaking either on purpose or more likely accidently .
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On our van there are 3 weight plates, the standard fiat 3500, then a Fiat 3650 one and the knaus 3850 which was a cost option. I think the 3650 one is free but to get the 3850 it has suspension changes on the rear to have leaf springs fitted though I may be wrong but when I recently looked into adding air bags to the rear to lift the rear axle capacity one of the criterion was having these springs first. And of course as this was on our order it probably came from the Fiat factory already fitted so was cheaper than retrofitting it.
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with max axle weights of the 'light' chassis at 1850 kg and 2000 kg, it 'should' be possible to have an MTPLM of 3850kg without physical change as this is the sum of the two axles....
however, while this might be perfectly possible, its extremely unlikely for a user to be able to balance the load so as to make use of this raised MTPLM without one of the axles going over first....
BTW, Michael, i am brand loyal......but i will update you on any 'news'.
for me, if i wanted to downsize and run a 3.5t van, id want it to run legally and practically at that weight, not at 3650/3850 kg, so as to be able to take advantage of a smaller van's drivability, manoureability and ease of parking.
no point in going smaller and not then being allowed to go into (some, continental) town centres as it had been up-plated.
however, the thrust of my earlier reply remains, weight needs to be checked (properly) as its the owner's responsibility to run within legal limits.
on a 3.5t van (especially a long van with a long overhang and paltry payload) it is extremely easy to breach limits, especially the rear axle weight.
...and no amount of 'updating the MTPLM' will change this situation.
either weigh the van empty and weigh all your stuff (preferably, before signing on the dotted line) or weigh the van fully loaded with full tank of fuel, 'sufficient water', all occupants, and the rest of the 'stuff' we all take.
better to be 'surprised' before hand than 'shocked' afterwards....
still, there will be loads running round with significantly overweight vans, so why worry?
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Hi FB,
I've ordered a new Bailey 75-4 and the dealer is updating to 3850kg for free. I have seen dealers advertise this service for £140. My dealer agreed to do this as part of the deal.
I agree with the earlier post that 3500 does not provide enough payload on the larger Bailey's.
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Apperley, please realise that uprating the overall MTPLM to 3650 or even 3850 does NOT increase the axle weights...
you (one) may well be under the MTPLM but over on one of the axles, and in the case of the rear heavy, large overhang Baileys, it will undoubtedly be the rear axle going over 2000 kg.
hence my advice that the van (your actual van) should be weighed as you will be marginal to say the least.
manufacturers are also 'allowed' to be +\- 5% on their weights, on a 3t MIRO weight thats 150kg. if 'your' van weighs heavy, then this will only exacerbate the problem.
many vans at 7.5m with a long rear overhang run on the 'heavy' 4250 kg chassis which gives a much higher rear axle limit....2400 kg, from memory.
again, i don't post this to scare anyone, but the Achile's heel of this type of van is the poor payload a d marginal rear axle capacity....
upgrading the MTPLM only masks the issue, it certainly doesnt address it.
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I know first hand of the rear axle issue. My 3500kg Bolero can be uprated to 3700kg (stage 2 Al-Ko vin plate), but with 2 bikes on the back and a full tank of water (100kg) I am over weight on my rear axle. Up rating to 3700kg will make no difference so in my case there is little to be gained. When I travel with bikes I just carry about 20ltrs of water.
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....and the Bailey is another half metre longer....most behind the rear axle (the wheelbase might be fractionally longer)...
a van i looked at has an unladen weight of only 2650kg, MIRO around 2830kg..you'd think it was simple to run legally at 3500kg....not so.....
no rear axle issues due to a different 'shape' van, but (with myriad extras) overweight at 3500kg all the same ....
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