British caravans

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  • ocsid
    ocsid Forum Participant Posts: 1,395
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    edited September 2016 #62

    Well. we did our bit to shake up what we thought was the very poor build quality of UK vans, back in 2002 then at reassesment in 2008. On both ocassions the deal went to Hymer, but then I had not read that one CT member once camped next to a Hymer owner
    who had damp issues.Wink However, hundreds of other members by now have camped next to us, so have camped next to Hymer owners who have had very
    few problems. We have camped next to a few caravanners who have had problems and as a consequence asked about our Hymers.

    I am not convinced being German or British in itself is the issue, I worked making world leading British products, but here Hymer IMO in 2002 and in 2008 built structurally a better van than any mainstream UK van on offer at that time.

    I like what Swift are doing but not convinced about some of the panel integrity issue I hear about and we are totally put off by the to us, stupidly low, payloads.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2016 #63

    Iv'e had four caravans, one from new bought in 2008, a Sprite with the big front window which Iv'e had replaced eight (8) times in eight years, seven at their expence and once at mine.

    ..Another problem that is still to be rectified by the Dutch manufacturer Undecided

  • ocsid
    ocsid Forum Participant Posts: 1,395
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    edited September 2016 #64

    Iv'e had four caravans, one from new bought in 2008, a Sprite with the big front window which Iv'e had replaced eight (8) times in eight years, seven at their expence and once at mine.

    ..Another problem that is still to be rectified by the Dutch manufacturer Undecided

    Yes, but which UK window maker is geting it right? 

    Sadly I don't think there is one left.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2016 #65

    Iv'e had four caravans, one from new bought in 2008, a Sprite with the big front window which Iv'e had replaced eight (8) times in eight years, seven at their expence and once at mine.

    ..Another problem that is still to be rectified by the Dutch manufacturer Undecided

    Yes, but which UK window maker is geting it right? 

    Sadly I don't think there is one left.

    ..Thats why a lot of "complaints" about uk built LVs are off the mark, as the majority of things fitted are "imported" from the channel

     

    Is the company that ever one goes to for replacements still in the uk (cannot remember name) EECO somthing?

  • black caviar
    black caviar Forum Participant Posts: 242
    edited September 2016 #66

    Ive had three autotrails and one autosleeper , ive ended up with a 2003 hymer caravan ,the furnishings and build ,are superior in the caravan to the four motorhomes altho the older cheyanne we had was pretty good , it just seems like the newer builds arent
    as substantial :/ mind you the hymer weighs a ton and we had to buy a discovery to tow it albeit an old one lol  but when i next buy a motorhome it will be a hymer (this is just my personal experience) cheers mrs bc :

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2016 #67

    This is what is the (as mentioned several times) if we in the uk did not want all the latest "kit" and tow with less than a big 4x4,as continental vans tend to need ,with a less  than UK spec,then the uk builders could use stronger materials to make them
    as some think, less "flimsy" although Australians do not think soWink

  • young thomas
    young thomas Club Member Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2016 #68

    the Dutch dont tow their Hymers etc with large 4x4s do they?

    ...and they tow for thousands of miles ......

     

    screwing something together properly doesnt (shouldnt) cost money or weight.

    our Seitz (dometic) windows are made by a company whose head office in Sweden...

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited September 2016 #69

    So to summarise British caravans are built to the highest possible standards.  By craftsmen, not monkeys wielding mastic guns like Uzi's.  

    Any slight problems very rare are down to the purchaser demanding to much kit in too light a van.  Presumably the manufacturers are to polite to tell the great British public that this is not a match made in heaven.  Or some sort of dastardly plot by foreign
    equipment suppliers 

  • young thomas
    young thomas Club Member Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2016 #70

    there is little doubt that the market is split....

    some wish for smaller lighter, more go-anywhere vans...weight (or lack of it) is a key driver.

    interestingly, considering some of the comments about heavy continental vans, its these very brands that are leading the attack on mass (en massWink)
    to get lighter and stronger vans to more license holders. in particular, Hymer is at the forefront of this drive within the MH sector. no doubt, this will also be a driver in their caravan design...

    however, there is still a market for larger, more spacious vans (caravans and MH) but while heavy MHs can continue to get larger, there is not an issue (apart from price) until you get to 7.5t where there are further license implications.

    ....but with caravans, every extra 100kg in weight, effectively tskes another batch of towcars out of the buyers towing equation, driving up the size and price of the towcar, alongside the size and price of the caravan...

    however, large or small, expensive or cheap, light or heavy, MH or caravan, we the customers have a right to expect that our 'pride and joy' is well screwed together.

    ....small, cheap and light shouldn't mean poorly assembled.

    ...and large, expensive and heavy is no guarantee of a beutifully assembled van....

    however, thats probably not far off the mark

  • zakattak
    zakattak Forum Participant Posts: 7
    edited September 2016 #71

    It doesn't  matter about all the glossy brochures and the spin

    A company can only be judged whether it is good or bad on its response to you when "you" have a problem. Its called customer service

  • young thomas
    young thomas Club Member Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2016 #72

    It doesn't  matter about all the glossy brochures and the spin

    A company can only be judged whether it is good or bad on its response to you when "you" have a problem. Its called customer service

    ...and some of the most misleading elements in these 'brochures' refer to weights....generally, whats not includedSad, you know, a MH with
    no water or passenger....

    on a different tack....

    Zak, are you a 'Crim' fan?....

    ...if you are, youll know why i asked (from your name)....if not, dont fretWink

  • zakattak
    zakattak Forum Participant Posts: 7
    edited September 2016 #73

    Fraid you lost me thereEmbarassed

  • young thomas
    young thomas Club Member Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2016 #74

    Fraid you lost me thereEmbarassed

    probably a bit youthful.....Wink

    google Thrakattak

    apologies for going OT...

  • rayjsj
    rayjsj Forum Participant Posts: 930
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    edited September 2016 #75

    The only problems with my British built Autotrail motorhome have come from Foreign manufactured parts,  distorting windows,  made by Polyplastic from Holland, and they still havnt completely solved the problem ! Leisure Battery failing early, Banner battery, from Germany.Boiler/heating failure, Truma, also from Germany.    No, not all things from Foreign manufacturers are better. Never had any faults with Carver boilers/heaters,  Electrolux 3 way fridges,made in Luton, before Dometic took over, Exide batteries(when they were made in the UK), we dont seem to make any component parts in the UK anymore ?   

  • jennyc
    jennyc Forum Participant Posts: 957
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    edited September 2016 #76

    The only problems with my British built Autotrail motorhome have come from Foreign manufactured parts,  distorting windows,  made by Polyplastic from Holland, and they still havnt completely solved the problem ! Leisure Battery failing early, Banner battery, from Germany.Boiler/heating failure, Truma, also from Germany.    No, not all things from Foreign manufacturers are better. Never had any faults with Carver boilers/heaters,  Electrolux 3 way fridges,made in Luton, before Dometic took over, Exide batteries(when they were made in the UK), we dont seem to make any component parts in the UK anymore ?   

    Write your comments here...

    I'm tempted to ask if the demise of UK made components is in part due to vociferous criticism of all things British, to which manufacturers have bent, replacing reliable UK items with less reliable foreign ones. Here's a few examples which I have personal experience of;

    Al-Ko LED lead fault from a German company

    Shower mixer leak from an Italian company

    Top locker plastic framing breakage from an Italian company

    Omnivent controller failure from a Swedish company

    Insufficient Dometic cooling in hot weather from a German company

    leaking rear lights by Jokon, a German company

    Headboard becoming slightly unstuck by Swift a U.K. company

    A fluorescent top locker mood light recall and replacement FOC by Swift, manufacturer unknown

    Caravan body leakage NIL and backed with a 10 year warranty. And hats off too, to our foreign made Alde, a Swedish company, heating which is a huge improvement on its predecessors, but doubtless classed as 'bling' when installed in British vans.

     

  • DavidOldmoley
    DavidOldmoley Forum Participant Posts: 43
    edited September 2016 #77

    Our 2014 Bailey Unicorn has just suffred a broken bed frame-its the tranverse bed which telescopes for day/night use. The sliding part has broken.

    Bailey won't cover it as that part is out of warranty. 

    Pretty good for a £20K purchase?

    £168 for the part plus labour. I have had 5 new Baileys yhis is the worst finished. They have now lost a loyal customer.Frown

    I will write to them but don't hold out much hope.

    If the japanese or Koreans went into caravans it would shake up the industry. Just like it did the british car/motorcycle industry!

  • DavidOldmoley
    DavidOldmoley Forum Participant Posts: 43
    edited September 2016 #78

    What is annoying is that we really like the van, its comfortable and well equipped, but attention to detail not good.

    If they are going to offer a warranty it should cover all the van. It has 6 year warranty against water ingress, and three years on most other fittings, not furniture and upholstery!

    The bed frame is probably a bought in part, probably used on lots of caravans/motorhomes.

     

  • Wildwood
    Wildwood Club Member Posts: 3,582
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    edited September 2016 #79

    Our 2014 Bailey Unicorn has just suffred a broken bed frame-its the tranverse bed which telescopes for day/night use. The sliding part has broken.

    Bailey won't cover it as that part is out of warranty. 

    Pretty good for a £20K purchase?

    £168 for the part plus labour. I have had 5 new Baileys yhis is the worst finished. They have now lost a loyal customer.Frown

    I will write to them but don't hold out much hope.

    If the japanese or Koreans went into caravans it would shake up the industry. Just like it did the british car/motorcycle industry!

    Write your comments here... Tell the dealer it was faulty manufacture and they are liable under The Sale of Goods Act and if you are not refunded you will raise a small claims action for recovery.

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
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    edited September 2016 #80

    Our 2014 Bailey Unicorn has just suffred a broken bed frame-its the tranverse bed which telescopes for day/night use. The sliding part has broken.

    Bailey won't cover it as that part is out of warranty. 

    Pretty good for a £20K purchase?

    £168 for the part plus labour. I have had 5 new Baileys yhis is the worst finished. They have now lost a loyal customer.Frown

    I will write to them but don't hold out much hope.

    If the japanese or Koreans went into caravans it would shake up the industry. Just like it did the british car/motorcycle industry!

    Write your comments here... Tell the dealer it was faulty manufacture and they are liable under The Sale of Goods Act and if you are not refunded you will raise a small claims action for recovery.

    I has a simlar story from a dealer about 7 years ago. The caravan was over 3 years old. I told him that I cared not about manufacturers warranty as it was the dealer's problem. ... sorted

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited September 2016 #81

    Re: Heating current Hymer fitted with Alde heating and its great mainly because it can be set up on a timer a feature that a lot of people don't seem to use.   However a friend with a very high end van had his Alde boiler corrode through It cost him almost
    £2k to have the boiler reconditioned ( to be fair I think that reconditioning meant that Alde replaced almost every part).  Whether the failure was due to a manufacturing, installation or maintainence fault I don't know

    It is without doubt a good system but still depends on installation.   I remember looking at  a caravan   I think it was a Unicorn 2 which which had Alde heating installed, but when you looked in the under seat storage the concectors were just there so as
    soon as you used the storage space for storage it would be inevitable that the delicate fins would be damaged, why could the covers be fitted to protect them?  Why do some Manufacturers to this day insist on fitting in inferior circulation pump in expansion
    tank if not to save a couple of quid?

    Ps

    Previous Hymer had the much derided Truma Ultraheat system fitted.  Couple of detail differences though, 1 the fire installed was the 5kW version not the 3kW version as invariably fitted to  UK built vans and the hot air ducting was run internally, except
    for a length of approx 1m that bridged the shower and that was insulated,  

    Often it is not the parts it is the attention to detail when they are fitted   

    bloody fire cover still threw its self off at every opportunity though. 

     

     

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
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    edited September 2016 #82

    Very happy with the circulation pump in the header tank. It runs quietly and should it pack in is a 10 minute job to replace.

  • jennyc
    jennyc Forum Participant Posts: 957
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    edited September 2016 #83

    Re: Heating current Hymer fitted with Alde heating and its great mainly because it can be set up on a timer a feature that a lot of people don't seem to use.   However a friend with a very high end van had his Alde boiler corrode through It cost him almost
    £2k to have the boiler reconditioned ( to be fair I think that reconditioning meant that Alde replaced almost every part).  Whether the failure was due to a manufacturing, installation or maintainence fault I don't know

    It is without doubt a good system but still depends on installation.   I remember looking at  a caravan   I think it was a Unicorn 2 which which had Alde heating installed, but when you looked in the under seat storage the concectors were just there so as
    soon as you used the storage space for storage it would be inevitable that the delicate fins would be damaged, why could the covers be fitted to protect them?  Why do some Manufacturers to this day insist on fitting in inferior circulation pump in expansion
    tank if not to save a couple of quid?

    Ps

    Previous Hymer had the much derided Truma Ultraheat system fitted.  Couple of detail differences though, 1 the fire installed was the 5kW version not the 3kW version as invariably fitted to  UK built vans and the hot air ducting was run internally, except
    for a length of approx 1m that bridged the shower and that was insulated,  

    Often it is not the parts it is the attention to detail when they are fitted   

    bloody fire cover still threw its self off at every opportunity though. 

     

     

    Write your comments here...

    Leisure Shop Direct sell the Alde boiler, complete for £1495, so nearly £2000 for reconditioning seems like an uneconomic choice.A 5kw Truma Ultraheat will draw approx 20Amps, which is an exceptional current from EHU. Maybe the more modest UK 3kw at 12Amps
    is better suited to leisure vehicles. We too have found the Alde timing with reduced nighttime temperatures to be excellent. We have also fitted the load monitor so that the electrical side of the boiler stays within our user defined limit during periods of
    high overall power demand such as using the microwave. I couldn't agree more about uninsulated external ducting, thank goodness it's being superseded by wet heating systems.

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited September 2016 #84

    Without getting into a he said she said. I assume if you pay your £1495 Leisure Shop direct, (excellent company btw) you get delivered to your door a box containing one brand new alde boiler.  I assume you then I have pay someone to fit it replace the coolant
    etc test it?   I would suggest that this would come to almost £2k and no I can't remember the exact amount

    Truma 5kW heater does not draw anything like 20 amps.  The reason for this is simple they were rated on the gas output so as far as I know all UK made vans were fitted with the S3002 my Hymer was fitted with a S5002 the s in both codes stood for supplemental
    and that was the 2kW electric heater fitted to both. I stand to be corrected if this was fitted to any UK vans I never saw one. 

    I don't want to knock British industry I really don't, but at the same time, I can't afford to blindly subsiidse it.  I am afraid I have voted with my wallet and I suggest everyone else does the same ie by the product that they are happiest with, doesn't
    have to be the same choice as mine.  

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2016 #85

    Any one with an open mind ,would hopefully look at the product that first, has a good reputation for build quality, that is backed up by the amount of LVs from said company on sites,which in my experiance is an ideal "customer feedback " area ,as anyone with a product with "problems" will more likely to "mention" it to others with same make, as it is a known statistic, that people would rather "moan" about something if it is not in their opinion "satisfactory", and that is proved with a poll of customer feed back that was carried out of manufacturing and service industry companies ,the thousands of silent majority of returnig customers,who are satisfied compaired to the minority of those who complain,who will put pen to paper

  • young thomas
    young thomas Club Member Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2016 #86

    as Malcolm said earlier, he had never considered the Continental vans as they had the door on the 'wrong' side...

    this may also be the same for many UK buyers, its a valid point.

    However, he (and many others) will not have done a comparison of like for like, as the Conti vans are 'ruled out' for a reason not associated with quality of construction.

    my van has the door on the wrong side, but its a tiny inconvenience to me....i bought my van on design and layout, brand reputation, quality of build and perceived longevity.

    the van hasnt been perfect (are any) but our dealer is on the ball, speedy, and diligent....so any issues have been resolved to my satisfaction in a timely and accurate manner.

    yes, a dometic fridge or thetford toilet can go wrong in any van, but quality also includes how your dealer resolves any issues and how long you have to wait for spares.

    im happy with the quality of our (all round) product/service.

     

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2016 #87

    As most seem to be with all makes Wink

  • young thomas
    young thomas Club Member Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2016 #88

    As most seem to be with all makes Wink

    you obviously dont read the right (wrong) forums....Happy

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2016 #89

    As most seem to be with all makes Wink

    you obviously dont read the right (wrong) forums....Happy

    ...See my previous postWink

  • young thomas
    young thomas Club Member Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2016 #90

    As most seem to be with all makes Wink

    you obviously dont read the right (wrong) forums....Happy

    ...See my previous postWink

    i tried to read it...with all those commas, clauses etc, your long posts are really hard work.Undecided 

    in essence, youre saying (i think) that if there are a lot of Baileys on a site, then they must be good as this forms 'ideal customer feedback'...

    well, for those in the uk who cant/wont have a van with the door on the 'wrong' side, there isnt a lot of brand choice...

    bailey, swift, elddis, coachman.....thats most of the market taken up isnt it...?

    so, by simple maths, youre going to get a lot of these on site.

    by no means a barometer of 'customer satisfaction', more a barometer of 'hobsons choice'.

    i do go into caravans occasionally at dealers, but wouldnt comment on their 'quality' except to say that most seem as flimsy as the maker can get away with.

    however, i do check out loads of MH when the occasion arises and if some of the latest Auto trail are anything to go by, i wouldnt see them lasting very long.

    while investment has obviously been made in the uk in catching up with Hymer's PUAL external construction process (in place for around 20yrs) the interiors must have been excluded completely....drawers and cupboards that (seemingly) wouldnt last a week,
    bed boxes so flimsy that you wonder how it support an average weight sleeping person....

    no, not very good at the moment....

    but whats the driver to get better....?

    with customers seemingly blinded by bling when they should be looking much deeper into the van, i dont see it happening.

     

  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited September 2016 #91

    I'm no expert(not even an owner) as JC pointed out the Foreign manufacturers don't give the 10yr warranty the UK builds carry, why is this?. If they are so good why not back them with a confidence boosting warranty. Genuine question as I'm intrigued.