Rip off Britain

2

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  • KeefySher
    KeefySher Forum Participant Posts: 1,128
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    edited July 2016 #32

    He knows the saying about a fool and his money, Fysh! You won't find many local people in his eateries.

    Are there many locals left in Padstow, or Sandbanks? Have they become dormitory towns for holiday home owners?

    Conversely us grockles expect to get ripped off on holiday and plan treats once per holiday Tongue Out It'll be a pint in a beachfront
    bar this year Tongue Out

    Thankfully there are reasonably priced sites to find and use.

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,149 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #33

    He knows the saying about a fool and his money, Fysh! You won't find many local people in his eateries.

    Are there many locals left in Padstow, or Sandbanks? Have they become dormitory towns for holiday home owners?

    Conversely us grockles expect to get ripped off on holiday and plan treats once per holiday Tongue Out It'll be a pint in a beachfront
    bar this year Tongue Out

    Thankfully there are reasonably priced sites to find and use.

    Emmets, KS, Emmets. You must learn our ways and terminology if you're going to try to insult us.

  • Wildwood
    Wildwood Club Member Posts: 3,582
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    edited July 2016 #34

    Sites in Britain and France have very different cost bases and the prices cannot be compared. Here we enforce rules and regulations to the letter where in France they enforce those they feel like. Costs are very different especially land costs which are
    far higher here and employment costs and tax are not the same either.. In simple terms if British operators could rake in more business by reducing fees enough to get enough extra business to cover the reduction some would.

    Basically if you shop around you can get lower priced sites with some real bargains. It is not fair however to suggest our site operators are ripping us off when comparing them with something entirely different.

  • IanH
    IanH Forum Participant Posts: 4,708
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    edited July 2016 #35

    CC sites enforce rules to the letter????

    I don't think so.........

  • KjellNN
    KjellNN Club Member Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #36

    We are recently back from a trip that involved 56 nights abroad and 17 nights in UK.  For 8 of those UK nights we were 3 adults, and also 3 adults for 8 nights abroad.

    The 56 site nights abroad cost us £816.17, ferry was £137.50, full Red Pennant £235, so the total was £1188.67, or £21.23 per night.

    Our 17 nights on CC sites here cost us £414.70, or £24.39 per night.

    However, should we add the Mayday cost here? Also,  RP covers not only breakdown but continuation of holiday and quite a few other things, so there can be no direct comparison.

  • IanH
    IanH Forum Participant Posts: 4,708
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    edited July 2016 #37

    You cannot add in the cost of ferries etc to French sites in order to compare them with UK sites. That isn't part of the site charge. You have to compare like with like.

    Next someone will be saying that site in Scotland are expensive because of the driving distance......or alternatively Cornish sites are expensive for the same reason.

    As I said before, France has a cost of living not too dissimilar to the UK......certainly near enough to make a comparison of caravan site prices a suitable 'like for like' comparison. And the UK (especially the CC out of peak season / mid week) are very
    expensive.

  • Unknown
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    edited July 2016 #38
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  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited July 2016 #39

    I would think if costs for ordinary people were better on mainland Europe ,there would not be the thousands of people clambering to come here , including a french population in London alone as big as some French townsUndecided

  • IanH
    IanH Forum Participant Posts: 4,708
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    edited July 2016 #40

    So French sites are more expensive than UK sites, JVB?

    Do you have examples?

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited July 2016 #41

    Sites in Britain and France have very different cost bases and the prices cannot be compared. Here we enforce rules and regulations to the letter where in France they enforce those they feel like. Costs are very different especially land costs which are
    far higher here and employment costs and tax are not the same either.. In simple terms if British operators could rake in more business by reducing fees enough to get enough extra business to cover the reduction some would.

    Basically if you shop around you can get lower priced sites with some real bargains. It is not fair however to suggest our site operators are ripping us off when comparing them with something entirely different.

     ...So very true ,and because we have the second highest minimumd wage of all Europe,and the imported litigation society,all the legal eagles of most companies,now insist that anyone except their own employees  are contracted to carry out most tasks to minimise
    any blame from "incidents"all at extra costs to the end users (US)

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited July 2016 #42

    So French sites are more expensive than UK sites, JVB?

    Do you have examples?





    ...There will be sites in Europe more expensive as in the uk as there are cheaper but it's the end user who makes their choice 

  • Wildwood
    Wildwood Club Member Posts: 3,582
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    edited July 2016 #43

    So French sites are more expensive than UK sites, JVB?

    Do you have examples?

    Looking at the foreign touring brochures I have seen many that give our sites more than a good run for their money.  They do have a different problem on volume as they have only two months in mid summer when they are full and the rest of the year they are
    near empty. This means they are having to make money very quickly at the peak period and the rest of the year any business is a bonus.

    My reference to the rules however was aimed at Law makers, civil servants, councils courts and the rest who make life difficult.

  • KjellNN
    KjellNN Club Member Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #44

    I would think if costs for ordinary people were better on mainland Europe ,there would not be the thousands of people clambering to come here , including a french population in London alone as big as some French townsUndecided

    On our recent trip we visited Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Germany and France, none of them seemed to us to be any more expensive for food than UK.  In fact Germany was quite a bit less expensive.

    The euro prices on some things we buy regularly had the same numbers as the £ prices here, so effectively 20% less than here.

  • Unknown
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    edited July 2016 #45
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  • IanH
    IanH Forum Participant Posts: 4,708
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    edited July 2016 #46

    Exactly so, David.

    We stayed on a municipal site in France two years ago. First time we had used one and we were expecting some sort of car park maybe. But as it was for just a one night stop-over, we thought we could put up with it.

    Of course, we hadn't booked (no need to!) so we had the option to move elsewhere if it was terrible.

    What we found was a very pleasant site, our chosen pitch was overlooking a lake and the site had a heated, covered swimming pool and sold fresh bread etc.

    It would probably be described as a 'premier site' by the CC.

    It cost 12 euros a night.

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,867 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #47

    Of the European 18 sites we stayed at on our recent trip to Vienna 7 of them where in France. Most were municipals or former municipals. Under no stretch of the imagination were the facilities anywhere near the quality of those found on the average Club
    site. OK you often had more room round you but few had any provision for the seriously wet weather we experienced. Funnily enough the one that did was the cheapest! The other 11 sites we used were in Germany and Austria. The toilet blocks in these two countries
    are usually far superior to those found in France and a few far exceed the quality we come to expect from the Caravan Club. The downside, particularly in Austria, is that some but not all sites have relatively small pitches so they feel far more crowded than
    the average Club site. A few of the sites we stayed at in Germany and Austria cost a similar amount as we paid at Black Horse Farm before we left.  I should add that we select sites for where they are which is mainly within easy reach of a town or village
    or perhaps with easy access to public transport.  Cost is not the first consideration. Club sites are what they are, I happen to like them. If I was unhappy about the price I would look elsewhere although I have to say that when I have tried that, usually
    because of location rather than price, I have often been disappointed.

    David

  • Fysherman
    Fysherman Forum Participant Posts: 1,570
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    edited July 2016 #48

    As long as a good choice of sites exist then there should be happy campers in the UK and in Europe. 

    I am a bit concerned about the municipal sites in France being sold to commercial operators however. They do change in character. I am also wary of the trend towards pods. Had some experience of noise and bad behaviour from occupants that have no idea about
    or concern for regular campers 

  • moulesy
    moulesy Forum Participant Posts: 9,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #49

    Of the European 18 sites we stayed at on our recent trip to Vienna 7 of them where in France. Most were municipals or former municipals. Under no stretch of the imagination were the facilities anywhere near the quality of those found on the average Club
    site. OK you often had more room round you but few had any provision for the seriously wet weather we experienced. Funnily enough the one that did was the cheapest! The other 11 sites we used were in Germany and Austria. The toilet blocks in these two countries
    are usually far superior to those found in France and a few far exceed the quality we come to expect from the Caravan Club. The downside, particularly in Austria, is that some but not all sites have relatively small pitches so they feel far more crowded than
    the average Club site. A few of the sites we stayed at in Germany and Austria cost a similar amount as we paid at Black Horse Farm before we left.  I should add that we select sites for where they are which is mainly within easy reach of a town or village
    or perhaps with easy access to public transport.  Cost is not the first consideration. Club sites are what they are, I happen to like them. If I was unhappy about the price I would look elsewhere although I have to say that when I have tried that, usually
    because of location rather than price, I have often been disappointed.

    David

    That's a very interesting post, David. Good to hear a balanced view from someone with a wide experience of touring in Europe and can point out the pros and cons rather than the "been there once and absolutely everything over there is superior" type of comment.

    Let's face it, there are good and bad sites in the UK and in Europe; there are expensive and economical sites in the UK and in Europe. The suggestion that everything on European sites is superior is as ridiculous as the suggestion that all CC sites are beacons
    of excellence. 

    What is slightly amusing in the context of the OP is complaints about the expense of CC sites from folk who for some reason feel compelled to use them. As has been suggested so often in the past, if folk continue paying those prices the CC will be happy
    to continue charging them. If you feel they're too expensive, vote with your wallet and your wheels and shop elsewhere. It really is that simple isn't it? Happy

  • Unknown
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    edited July 2016 #50
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  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,867 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #51

    As long as a good choice of sites exist then there should be happy campers in the UK and in Europe. 

    I am a bit concerned about the municipal sites in France being sold to commercial operators however. They do change in character. I am also wary of the trend towards pods. Had some experience of noise and bad behaviour from occupants that have no idea about or concern for regular campers 

    Interesting thoughts. I am not particularly bothered by them being sold as I imagine the alternative is that they would close? Many French sites have changed dramatically in the last ten years. They longer get the long stay visitors with the old caravans that set up each year for a couple of months. To conteract this many sites have invested heavily in alternative forms of accommodation like pods and mobile homes and all sorts of weird contraptions inbetween. I firmly believe that this investment has been at the expense of improving other facilities on site. Once the mobiles are installed they are easy money for the sites. They have their own toilet facilities so no need to waste money on improving the toilet block. There are of course many large commercial sites where as well as investing in mobile homes they also invest in other site facilities. Some of these sites are very good value in the low season but prices in the peak can be quite eye watering which perhaps puts the prices charged by the CC in perspective. 

    David

  • Fysherman
    Fysherman Forum Participant Posts: 1,570
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    edited July 2016 #52

    I agree with your observations David. I am more relaxed when alternatives such as pods and mobile homes are in a defined area all together away from the rest of the campsite. There are however a lot of sites that are dotting them around the campsite and the normal "campsite" atmosphere is compromised. I now have a good look round before I commit to staying.

    We are normally fairly relaxed about where we pitch but times are changing in France. However, there are plenty of other destinations in Europe and as much as I like France we are also very comfortable camping in other countries.

  • moulesy
    moulesy Forum Participant Posts: 9,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #53

    "Moulsey

    I feel sure you are not including me in the "been there once" category, I travel abroad twice a year and have for the last 16 years ( plus about 10 earlier trips) and visited around a dozen countries  so I do feel qualified to comment especially as I have also toured extensively in the UK in earlier days.. Although cost is not a particular issue for us what can not be denied or explained away that we live in an expensive country and camping is no exception."

     

     

    No, David, I wasn't referring to you as you have made it clear in the past that you have a wide experience of touring abroad. We also enjoy visiting Europe and appreciate different cultures and scenery, but we couldn't be away for anywhere near 77 nights. We do go twice a year though but base our breaks in hotels. Only last month we were walking in the mountains around Karanjska Gora in Slovenia.

    But we also appreciate what's on offer in this country too. We visit the Cotswolds often and have never been faced with a muudy sloping pitch on a CC site in that area!  


    You're right when you say we live in an expensive country which is why I've said in the past that comparing costs of sites in the UK with those in Europe is valid but only if accompanied by a comparison of costs of food & drink, fuel dining out and visiting places of interest etc.

  • Wildwood
    Wildwood Club Member Posts: 3,582
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    edited July 2016 #54

    As long as a good choice of sites exist then there should be happy campers in the UK and in Europe. 

    I am a bit concerned about the municipal sites in France being sold to commercial operators however. They do change in character. I am also wary of the trend towards pods. Had some experience of noise and bad behaviour from occupants that have no idea about
    or concern for regular campers 

    Presumably the French authorities are also short of cash and selling a camp site might look an easy way to raise cash without upsetting the voters.

  • Unknown
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    edited July 2016 #55
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  • KjellNN
    KjellNN Club Member Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #56

    If we are going to look at the cost of fuel, food and dining out, if you are careful, France/other continental countries win hands down.

    IMO, for what it is worth, we find CC sites more expensive, but like the fact there are proper hardstandings, easily available grey water and chemical toilet disposal points, and refuse disposal conveniently situated.

     Wle like having proper hardstandings rather  than just mud, but on CC grass only sites there can be extensive mud, those groundsheets should just be banned.

    Our feeling is that sites abroad are run for the convenience of the site owner, while CC sites are run for the convenience of the site user.

    Presumably we are paying for that?

     

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,867 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #57

     

    I also think that the massive increase in Motorhomes is also contributing to their demise. We struggle a little finding convenient stopovers in April and one we used regularly in the Marais no longer opens until July but its not really surprising now the
    council has provided an "Aire" (a car park actually) that we were alone on that splendid site while the Aire 100 meters away had 20 MH's on it

    I assume sites open when they feel they have enough customers to make it worth while. Interestingly on the municipal campsite we have been on during our last trip there seem to be as many motorhomes as caravans so not everyone is happy using aires maybe
    because of the minimum facilities and often no electricity. It was also interesting to note how many Dutch motorhomers there are now when even a few years ago they were pretty rare.

    David

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,867 ✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #58

    If we are going to look at the cost of fuel, food and dining out, if you are careful, France/other continental countries win hands down.

    IMO, for what it is worth, we find CC sites more expensive, but like the fact there are proper hardstandings, easily available grey water and chemical toilet disposal points, and refuse disposal conveniently situated.

     Wle like having proper hardstandings rather  than just mud, but on CC grass only sites there can be extensive mud, those groundsheets should just be banned.

    Our feeling is that sites abroad are run for the convenience of the site owner, while CC sites are run for the convenience of the site user.

    Presumably we are paying for that?

     

    I agree with you about hardstanding pitches and given the weather we experienced on our trip would have happily paid a premium to go to a site with hardstandings!!!

    David

  • Merve
    Merve Forum Participant Posts: 2,333
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    edited July 2016 #59

    We now pay £4 or £5 a night and enjoy some of the most beautiful places in Britain- non hook sites exclusively. Make our own electricity and save a small fortune. It can be done but it takes an investment to make it a reality ( returnable of course!!!)

  • young thomas
    young thomas Club Member Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited July 2016 #60

    im sitting on a first class commercial site in Milford on sea at £15 a night incl electric.

    my previous night in sandy balls was also £15 a night.

    the club sites we used a fortnight ago (tewkesbury and broadway) were 25% and 40% more than this respectively at £21 and £25 per night.

    prices for commercials tend to rise at the weekend and fall in midweek even in 'highish' season, whereas the CC prices are more stable, but higher due to the extension of the higher priced 'seasons'....fiscal creep....

    some continental sites can be expensive in peak (a much shorter period) but at all other times you het the same full facilities (much, much more than at a cc site with a pitch and a loo) but at a much cheaper rate....

    food shopping (market or supermarket), fuel etc is also far cheaper abroad.

    if measuring VFM then im afraid the UK is as stated by the OP....Sad

     

  • Wildwood
    Wildwood Club Member Posts: 3,582
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    edited July 2016 #61

    im sitting on a first class commercial site in Milford on sea at £15 a night incl electric.

    my previous night in sandy balls was also £15 a night.

    the club sites we used a fortnight ago (tewkesbury and broadway) were 25% and 40% more than this respectively at £21 and £25 per night.

    prices for commercials tend to rise at the weekend and fall in midweek even in 'highish' season, whereas the CC prices are more stable, but higher due to the extension of the higher priced 'seasons'....fiscal creep....

    some continental sites can be expensive in peak (a much shorter period) but at all other times you het the same full facilities (much, much more than at a cc site with a pitch and a loo) but at a much cheaper rate....

    food shopping (market or supermarket), fuel etc is also far cheaper abroad.

    if measuring VFM then im afraid the UK is as stated by the OP....Sad

     

    Try Sandy Balls in August and you will appreciate club sites. They are taking 15% off in August which suggests they have overdone the pricing at £45 a night.The club do have a far more balanced approach than many commercial sites with realistic pricing throughout
    the year which makes supporting your argument difficult. The big commercial sites doing sky high mid summer and giveaway off peak are not doing us a favour.