MOT for Caravans
There is a debate in the Commons at 4p.m. this afternoon entitled
"That this House has considered the safety of towed trailers on public roads:"
I wonder if that means they are looking at MOT for caravans again?
I shall read Hansard tomorrow to see what the outcome is.
Comments
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Why would you not want some form of confirmation that your caravan, vehicle, trailer, bike, etc is fit for purpose to travel on a public highway.
Although this has been debated on many occasion; with differing views on the value of an MOT (as by some it is viewed as a 'point-in-time' evlauation) IMHO it is prudent for the owner of vehicles, etc, to be held accountable for ensuring they are not hindering the safety levels of other roads users.
Therefore, perhaps a consistent form of measurement - such as an MOT - would be a good stake in the ground for all types and weights of caravans....
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Does anybody know how many accidents, per year, are caused by defective trailers. I can guess!
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I thought the Government had already dismissed the idea of MOT's for caravans as it would require them to be registered (common in mainland Europe) and the scheme would be too expensive to administer. Perhaps its about other types of trailers?
David
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..... as most people service the caravan every year so the mot could be done at the same time without a problem.
What if the service comes to the caravan? I doubt it could be MOTd then 'without a problem' It'd just be another level of red tape that we could do without.
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An old post from caravan talk - although dated stat's from an insurer - it would be useful to see real supporting eveidence.
"Interestingly one caravan insurer has published a breakdown of the kinds of caravan accidents that resulted in claims:
33% resulted from collisions with other road users
33% occurred due to tyres blowing out
14% were cause by wheel loss
9% were as a result of snaking incidents"Furthermore, should a requirememnt for an MOT be driven by numbers and the risk equation of 'probability x impact'?
Unsure of the 'right-answer'; but measurement and prevention must be a nudge in the right direction?
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I suspect if any conclusion is reached it would be the start of a process, which could very well end up the same as the EU discussion a while back. I have to say, this is the first I have heard of this afternoons debate, but although it may be implicit, Patmau does not specifically mention MOT as part of the discussion, and only speculates about MOT. The aspect of MOT equivalent has been discussed and thought not appropriate, not so long ago.
No doubt time will tell.....
David
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Perhaps its about the speed that trailers are often towed on our motorways. We are regularly passed by cars towing trailers at 70mph. Some drivers do not seem to realise that trailer tyres are not intended for speed and the limit is 60mph? I believe here in France there are now speed detectors at the side of the road that can determine the class of vehicle by height or length and register if they are doing over the permitted speed for that class. Perhaps they are going to introduce these into the UK??
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Although I understand that just a cursory glimpse proves nothing, I very rarely see caravans on our highways which gives me cause for concern. Slightly more concern for 'commercial' trailers on the odd occasion, mind. With regard to the latter I have often seen these in the outside lane of a motorway travelling at for greater speed than the limit, but that's another story. Maybe, like some continental countries, caravans/trailers should have their own registration plates and compulsory yearly checks. Maybe more difficult to sell on/replate a stolen one!
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Although I understand that just a cursory glimpse proves nothing, I very rarely see caravans on our highways which gives me cause for concern. Slightly more concern for 'commercial' trailers on the odd occasion, mind. With regard to the latter I have often seen these in the outside lane of a motorway travelling at for greater speed than the limit, but that's another story. Maybe, like some continental countries, caravans/trailers should have their own registration plates and compulsory yearly checks. Maybe more difficult to sell on/replate a stolen one!
...I was referring to trailers rather than caravans when mentioning speeding. Most caravan users seem to be much more aware and law abiding. My experience is also the same as yours re vehicles travelling in the outside lane that are prohibited. Do you think it is just that the driving test is failing to cover this aspect of learning to drive. Or, are drivers just ignoring the rules because they believe they will not be caught? If the French style speed detectors are installed in the UK then that will catch these vehicles.
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As an mot is only proof that it was legal at time of testing I can't see the point for caravans especially as most people treat there caravan in regards to service, maintenance and repair better than the average motorist treats there car.
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In days gone by you heard tales of wheels etc being swapped from car to car to get through tests. Today it's those folk that don't even take them for tests or have insurance that are the worry. At least that compulsory annual check, allbeit only a snap shot in time, would be reassuring that deterioration is not ongoing year after year until undetected failure is immanent!
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It seems a waste of good money to need newer Vans testing, over 3yrs old like Cars would seem sensible.
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Although on the continent caravans have to be registered with own number plate, in France they do not have to be MOT'd. There, cars get an MOT at 4 years then every 2 years. I recall that this cycle for MOTs was discussed for UK but did not get anywhere;
pity.0 -
Caravan MOT’S - yes or no – we have discussed this more times than I wish to remember.
Caravan service’s - yes or no -
again what starts out as a serious debate ends up being hijacked, followed quite often individual abuse – why?Then we have caravans speeding –
again discussed more times than one can remember.Followed by Caravan insurance – yes, no -
arguments - again discussed more times that one can remember.Personally, ‘they are ALL’ up to the individual’s conscience or on occasion lack of – if individuals have the aptitude, the faculty, intuition or judgment to distinguish between each then each of these subjects wouldn’t
need to be discussed as frequently or with such aggression as they often are. However; to me this is quite simple - not ‘ALL’ know the difference from right and wrong.I suspect that what I have just suggested perhaps sounds a little condescending; perhaps patronising however they are ’my’ thoughts.
Perhaps moral judgment is more the order of the day than possibly
rights and wrongs? –I have just looked at some ‘serious’ caravan accidents caught on the growing number of dash cams – a number appear to have several common trends; first and foremost absolute speed!!, followed by I can tow what I like at any speed
because I have a ‘big’ 4x4’s and clearly not applying to the 85% weight advisory rule. Look carefully at some of the caravans after or leading up to the crash – and you will notice no matter how many services that van has had, no matter how much
or less insurance that van has, no matter what weight guidelines or not were applied to the outfir these were accidents just waiting to happen – why? – because respective individuals conscience on 'that' occasion could not tell the difference between
right and wrong,However; what also was very concerning – the vast majority involved family, partners,children!
And me…….I tow with a BMW X3 (had since new) a 95% match to the van – both dealer serviced since new – both fully insured through the club and both undertake 2 main holidays a year –one to the snow, the other the Italian sun
speed 65 mph UK, europe 70, why? - because others do and I can – experiance towing 25 plus years, does that make it right or wrong?0 -
S3, where is the individual abuse statement proved-I've read the whole thread & can't find anything. The rest of your post I understand as your personal perspective.
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Caravan MOT’S - yes or no – we have discussed this more times than I wish to remember.
Caravan service’s - yes or no - again what starts out as a serious debate ends up being hijacked, followed quite often individual abuse – why?
Then we have caravans speeding – again discussed more times than one can remember.
Followed by Caravan insurance – yes, no - arguments - again discussed more times that one can remember.
Personally, ‘they are ALL’ up to the individual’s conscience or on occasion lack of – if individuals have the aptitude, the faculty, intuition or judgment to distinguish between each then each of these subjects wouldn’t need to be discussed as frequently or with such aggression as they often are. However; to me this is quite simple - not ‘ALL’ know the difference from right and wrong.
I suspect that what I have just suggested perhaps sounds a little condescending; perhaps patronising however they are ’my’ thoughts.
Perhaps moral judgment is more the order of the day than possibly rights and wrongs? –
I have just looked at some ‘serious’ caravan accidents caught on the growing number of dash cams – a number appear to have several common trends; first and foremost absolute speed!!, followed by I can tow what I like at any speed because I have a ‘big’ 4x4’s and clearly not applying to the 85% weight advisory rule. Look carefully at some of the caravans after or leading up to the crash – and you will notice no matter how many services that van has had, no matter how much or less insurance that van has, no matter what weight guidelines or not were applied to the outfir these were accidents just waiting to happen – why? – because respective individuals conscience on 'that' occasion could not tell the difference between right and wrong,
However; what also was very concerning – the vast majority involved family, partners,children!
And me…….I tow with a BMW X3 (had since new) a 95% match to the van – both dealer serviced since new – both fully insured through the club and both undertake 2 main holidays a year –one to the snow, the other the Italian sun speed 65 mph UK, europe 70, why? - because others do and I can – experiance towing 25 plus years, does that make it right or wrong?
Yes yes and yes
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Caravan MOT’S - yes or no – we have discussed this more times than I wish to remember.
Caravan service’s - yes or no -
again what starts out as a serious debate ends up being hijacked, followed quite often individual abuse – why?Then we have caravans speeding –
again discussed more times than one can remember.Followed by Caravan insurance – yes, no -
arguments - again discussed more times that one can remember.Personally, ‘they are ALL’ up to the individual’s conscience or on occasion lack of – if individuals have the aptitude, the faculty, intuition or judgment to distinguish between each then each of these subjects wouldn’t
need to be discussed as frequently or with such aggression as they often are. However; to me this is quite simple - not ‘ALL’ know the difference from right and wrong.I suspect that what I have just suggested perhaps sounds a little condescending; perhaps patronising however they are ’my’ thoughts.
Perhaps moral judgment is more the order of the day than possibly
rights and wrongs? –I have just looked at some ‘serious’ caravan accidents caught on the growing number of dash cams – a number appear to have several common trends; first and foremost absolute speed!!, followed by I can tow what I like at any speed
because I have a ‘big’ 4x4’s and clearly not applying to the 85% weight advisory rule. Look carefully at some of the caravans after or leading up to the crash – and you will notice no matter how many services that van has had, no matter how much
or less insurance that van has, no matter what weight guidelines or not were applied to the outfir these were accidents just waiting to happen – why? – because respective individuals conscience on 'that' occasion could not tell the difference between
right and wrong,However; what also was very concerning – the vast majority involved family, partners,children!
And me…….I tow with a BMW X3 (had since new) a 95% match to the van – both dealer serviced since new – both fully insured through the club and both undertake 2 main holidays a year –one to the snow, the other the Italian sun
speed 65 mph UK, europe 70, why? - because others do and I can – experiance towing 25 plus years, does that make it right or wrong?...Re your point about absolute speed: Any deviation from
this is wrong whether we feel able or not for that very reason.0 -
Hi, Rocky 2 buckets, Caravanner - I hope I understand your question, observation correctly, on occasion and in relation to these subject(s) - in the past, I have read individual’s replies that ‘I’ along with others have considered to be personal and against the sprit in which the returning response was originally sent in.
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Hi, Rocky 2 buckets,
Caravanner -
I hope I understand your question, observation correctly, on occasion and in relation to these subject(s) - in the past, I have read individual’s replies that ‘I’ along with others have considered to be personal and against the sprit in
which the returning response was originally sent in.S3, 'in the past' Thankyou, I've got it now
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Having spent many years investigating accidents I can say I have never dealt with a case where an MOT type test would have made any difference. While there may be some benefit I think there are far more serious problems that need attention first.
There is an article on the subject in Practical Caravan covering the test in Holland. The one problem I see with i plementation is the need for a rolling road. There may be some dealers with one but I doubt many and it would take all mobile engineers out
of the equation. Given we would need the dealers to spend a lot of money and probably need more test places the idea could not be introduced in the short term and would certainly hike up the costs of running a caravan.For people who simply move the caravan on and off a seasonal pitch it would not be be feasible.
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On dear, oh dear, what a mess, what just having a cold and being at home can cause (not for one moment am I using that as an excuse)
Having just re-read what I earlier submitted, there is a very simple moral – read before submission. I sound like that ‘fool’ who drives like that mad man, that inconsiderate driver, that fool who just wants to get from A to B as soon as possible, without any consideration for any other road user. Please please believe me, this could not be any further from the truth.
Reading further; I suspect that what I implied – I sounded like ‘that’ condescending, patronising individual. I could think of some other more appropriate words but think the club would not take too kindly.
Yes - I do tow with a BMW X3 and yes, rightly or wrongly, is a 95% match.
Yes - both are ‘religiously’ dealer serviced with 100% safety coming first and foremost and yes both undertake 2 main holidays a year.
HOWEVER – this is where I failed MISERABLY and clearly NOT making myself clear or understood – and I hang my head in absolute shame! -
Whilst I am not retracting my admission of exceeding the speed limit - It’s NOT a case that I simply can, as I implied - because I suspect most of us could and possibly have on occasion. I was thinking more of an occasion when over taking an HGV - safely, I must add, even though whilst carrying out this manoeuvre I exceeded the speed limit. (Whist the brain thought the fingers typed something else)
Equally I am not retracting- driving at 70 mph, why? - because on occasion I have and where? Germany, Holland and Italy - feel proud? – not really – but why? – because other caravanners did and do(regularly) – excuse? – no, not any defence but I weren’t the only UK reg exceeding and I was keeping up with other European outfits.
In conclusion, please except this as my humble apology and that I am truly sorry for how I must have come cross – I hope that I can still be considered as a ‘fellow caravanner’
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