Weigh bridge blues
We have just come back from the weigh bridge with our new to us Swift Challenger and oh dear, 66klg overweight so scratching of heads in order now. In fairness I did leave in the van a lot of "bits" I suspected might cause a problem and we also have two
full bottles (Safefill ()of gas, which I will reduce to one full one by the time we leave for Spain.......... It looks as if we will have more in the car than we thought.
Can I ask how ridged members are with regard to MTPLM?
Comments
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It is not how rigided members are that matters, but how rigid the VOSA and their equivalent elswhere might be.
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You exceed that figure and if problems arise you will be looking for trouble. What is your van to car ratio?
I have caravanned for 30 years and never got anywhere near the MTPLM even when my children were with us. I weigh the van every year before we go abroad, I know I'm not going to be near my limit but I just do it for the paperwork in case of problems with
the police. You need to look at what you have in the van in more detail. You can contact Swift and ask them to upgrade the weight, you will have to pay for that but it will give you more on your upper weight limit, generally about 50 kilosHave you got a motor mover fitted if so that eats into your allowance
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You could be invalidating your insurance as well as risking a blow out.
peedee
Thanks for that, although I was concerned about the axle and wheel bearing I never gave a thought to the tyre pressures.
Actually its going well with weight reduction, it's amazing the things you forget you have which are really heavy ,one such is the table in the little hideaway in the bathroom at 7.5 klg. Also two Duvalays at 11.6Klg which can go in the car of course.
We will get there of that I have no doubt, thanks for the comments each.0 -
a timely reminder (NEC looming
) that caravans and motorhomes are not removal vans for stuffing endless kit in them....most are already stuffed with the endless kit we demand of the suppliers....cookers, large fridge/freezers etc.so, when we collect them, theyre already moving towards their maximum weight, despite us seeing all that open space...for more stuff...
most caravans have small payloads and most MH on 3500kg will also be struggling as soon as more than two people want to use them...remember, no tow car to carry all the heavy stuff....
...and any MH with a large overhang (certainly at 7m total length or more) will be impacting on the max weight of the rear axle....
so, caravan or MH, weigh, weigh and weigh again....preferably before you sign on the dotted line.....
your license.
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We keep having these same discussions, but hardly suprising as new members struggle to get their heads round the ambiguities, or experienced members look for new vans or new tow cars.
I went into it with a fine tooth comb when looking for our new van and was quite shocked with what I found,
Marketing driven, low MIRO and standard MTPLM's resulting in paltry payloads, stabilisers and spare wheels claimed as "options" so coming out of your already paltry payload. Then take off the weight of your 110a leisure battery and motor mover and you are left with next to nothing.
The remaining payload is then less than a theoretical +10% on the ex works MIRO, leaving you with nothing.
The good news is Bailey at least, appear spot on with thier predicted MIRO (mine was spot on), and you can pay/or negotiate for a plate upgrade if your towcar and licence can accomodate.
But the big moral of the story, is everyone should weigh their outfits and understand what every bit of their kit weighs and the effect it has on their payload. Do you really need a trolley jack, a full tool kit and an electric drill? Oh, of course you do, you have a Land Rover.
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a timely reminder (NEC looming
) that caravans and motorhomes are not removal vans for stuffing endless kit in them....most are already stuffed
with the endless kit we demand of the suppliers....cookers, large fridge/freezers etc.so, when we collect them, theyre already moving towards their maximum weight, despite us seeing all that open space...for more stuff...
most caravans have small payloads and most MH on 3500kg will also be struggling as soon as more than two people want to use them...remember, no tow car to carry all the heavy stuff....
...and any MH with a large overhang (certainly at 7m total length or more) will be impacting on the max weight of the rear axle....
so, caravan or MH, weigh, weigh and weigh again....preferably before you sign on the dotted line.....
your license.
Weighed our MH for the first time just before we set off for our recent holiday in France and was delighted to find that fully loaded, full fuel tank, 20ltrs in the fresh water and the two of us on board we were 80kgs under the max. With the garage stuffed
I had been worried about the rear axle weight, but our Fiat chassis has been plated down to 3.5t so the original (generous) axle weights still apply.0 -
If I remember correctly you are allowed to be 5% overweight before plod takes any action.
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Stevesie raises a potential solution to the weight issue for those with a 3.5t limit, where std 'light chassis' axle weights are commensurately lower....
just get your van on a 4.250 'heavy' chassis and downplate the total weight to 3500kg.
As above, this might eliminate the bugbear of the light chassis and a long overhang .... the poor limit on the rear axle
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If you were down plating because of licence restrictions surely overloading beyond 3.5 tons even if the chassis is capable is illegal.
peedee
you are, of course, correct, Peedee...and not explained at all well by me....sorry.
what i meant was that the 3500 chassis only has a rear (and legal) capacity of 2100kg.
with a MH with a long overhang, its easy to exceed this limit way before reaching a 3500kg total. i have my suspicions that this is happening with many vans on the road which run at 3500....possibly a few on CT.
by specifying the heavy 4250kg Fiat chassis, as on our van, the rear axle allowance is 2400kg.
you could then down plate the total weight to 3500kg yet still retain the legal capacity of 2400kg on the rear axle, thus negating the real potential to be seriously overweight on the rear axle if loading the light chassis to its max of 3500kg.
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not sure....the 'heavy' option is comparatively cheap to order...possibly less than air and would give a 300kg increase, again probably more than air might be able to do on the light chassis....then theres the possibility of a tyre change....the heavy chassis
will already come with larger wheels/tyres..and both options would require someone like SVTech to get involved at around £300..
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True BB only downside is if the converter normally uses light chassis's then it may be a special order for the heavy which may result in delays.
I think ours is the heavy chassis but only rated up to 3,850, is it the ALKO chassis that gives the higher levels?
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without looking at the weight plates i couldnt tell...
if youre right, there should be a Fiat plate showing 4250kg (the 'heavy' part, the front axle remains)
then AL-Ko add a chassis in lieu of the Fiat one,on ours this re-rates the vehicle to 4000kg....
then the converter will add a third plate (ours will be a Carthago plate at 4250kg) yours will be a Knaus one, which might be all the way down to 3850kg...
however, as there is no license difference between 4250 and down to 3850, why would the converter bother? if you can drive 3850, you can drive 4250.
so, more likely, that you are on the light chassis and have been uprated to 3850.
again, only the plates can tell you this.
if this were the case, you would have a 3500kg plate from Fiat, another from AL-Ko (which may be at 3850)....or even different and third one from Knaus.
its all about the plates
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Last time I weighed our van, we were 80kg over the MTPLM - oops!!!
I then spent a fair bit of time looking around online for legality of MTPLM and I'm not sure that it has any real standing??? Please correct me if I'm wrong but definitive information was hard to find.
The legal limits seemed very much to be defined by gross train weight
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Last time I weighed our van, we were 80kg over the MTPLM - oops!!!
I then spent a fair bit of time looking around online for legality of MTPLM and I'm not sure that it has any real standing??? Please correct me if I'm wrong but definitive information was hard to find.
The legal limits seemed very much to be defined by gross train weight
Write your comments here...
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The legal limits are very clear for all vehicles. A motor caravan is plated just the same as a car - front axle max, rear axle max, Train weight max. You are breaking the law if you exceed any of these. The towing limit is train weight minus the sum of
axle weights. Driving Licence limits rule.0 -
Clear for cars and other vehicles - I don;t think they are clear at all for caravans. I can find no reference to MTPLM having any legal validity.
GTW seems to be the only legal limit VOSA will be interested in.
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Clear for cars and other vehicles - I don;t think they are clear at all for caravans. I can find no reference to MTPLM having any legal validity.
GTW seems to be the only legal limit VOSA will be interested in.
..Try to tell VOSA that when they weigh your c/van on one of their "stops"
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Be quite happy to
GTW for car is 6740KG - max tow weight is 3500kg and I know I'm well within the limits for that.
Current van has MTPLM of 1800KG - while I think I'm inside it, I haven't weighed it yet.
Fully accept I may have missed it but I can see no reference to MTPLM anywhere - just to GTW
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Be quite happy to
GTW for car is 6740KG - max tow weight is 3500kg and I know I'm well within the limits for that.
Current van has MTPLM of 1800KG - while I think I'm inside it, I haven't weighed it yet.
Fully accept I may have missed it but I can see no reference to MTPLM anywhere - just to GTW
...Its just the same as any vehicle that exceeds its plated max weight
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boris, if you exceed the plated weight of your caravan you will be breaking the law, AFAIK.
Train weights are a separate issue.
each element of the 'train' will have its own limits, determined by the individual plate.
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But the MTPLM sticker by the door is a caravan standard as far as I can tell and not the equivalent VIN. I have heard/read of actual plated figures on chassis being significantly higher.
The MTPLM on our van was 1650KG but for 50 quid it suddenly became 1800KG - so how can the plate be definitive?
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But the MTPLM sticker by the door is a caravan standard as far as I can tell and not the equivalent VIN. I have heard/read of actual plated figures on chassis being significantly higher.
The MTPLM on our van was 1650KG but for 50 quid it suddenly became 1800KG - so how can the plate be definitive?
...Its what VOSA will use ,a Comercial vehicle can be replated,as noted with some m/van chassis
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But the MTPLM sticker by the door is a caravan standard as far as I can tell and not the equivalent VIN. I have heard/read of actual plated figures on chassis being significantly higher.
The MTPLM on our van was 1650KG but for 50 quid it suddenly became 1800KG - so how can the plate be definitive?
the plate is definitive because, if you get the weight changed (by the authorised process) one of the outputs of this process is a new weight plate....
so, caravan has a weight plate of 1650kg, you pay £50 to a bloke (authorised...) who sorts out all the necessary (which may have vehicle taxing implications in the case of a MH) and comes back with a new plate to be affixed to the van, next to the old plate,
providing you with an uprated van, and everyone else with a change history.presto, your van now has a MTPLM of 1800kg.
however, the statement remains, if you exceed this 'new' plated value, you will be in trouble
ps....my additional weight plate carries the VIN of my vehicle
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