Volvo XC60 Towing Capacity - Sanity Check
Hi Everyone,
This is my first post to the CC Forum, I'm David from the West Midlands. We've just put a deposit on a 2008 Lunar Delta SB, very excited. We've just sold our VW T5 California - after only owning for a year - as we decided they really are not designed, or big enough for longer touring trips.
I have tried some searches, but really I was just enquiring if a more experienced person on the forum could confirm my towing calculations.
Here goes:
Lunar Delta SB:
- Mass in Running Order (Kg) - 1425
- Maximum Technical Permissible Laden Mass (Kg) - 1695
Volvo, XC60, D4, AWD, Manual, 163bhp:
Max Braked Trailer weight - 1800kg
Nose Weight - 90kg
Gross Vehicle Weight - 2505kg
Effective Kerb Wegith - ~2600kg
%75 of Kerb Weight - 1950kg
So I am well over the MTPLM of 1695kg.
Do my numbers stack up correctly?
Thanks, looking forward to using the forum for some helpful information. Next stop, insurance and storage. A shame none of the CC courses are doable at the moment.
-David
Comments
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Unfortunately not!
Your kerb weight will be more like 1800kg, it's the unladen car + driver + some fuel usually. Refer to Volvo technical details.
You will be probably over 90%, but within the car's capability.
What is the permitted train weight?
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Hi KjellNN - 4305kg
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So working on train weight, the gross vehicle weight and caravan MTPLM is %97 of train weight. Tight but within tolerance. But the chances are we will rarely have a fully laden car with passengers and luggage.
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Gross train weight is not the figure you need to be looking at for safely towing a caravan. It has certain technical legal meanings but its not what keeps you the shiny side up.
According to Volvo UK, the heaviest XC60 has a kerb weight of 1879 so the calculation is as follows
1879 - 15% = a maximum loaded caravan of 1597 kg.
Remember this is for the very heaviest XC60 , the kerb weight drops to 1700kg on some models which = a maximum loaded caravan of 1445kg .
On the heaviest XC60 there is not much user payload and for the lightest non at all.
Assuming of course you wish to stick to the recommended 85% max towing weight in order to maintain a satisfactory safety margin.
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Hi Fysherman, thanks for that. I may have to cancel the purchase then and go for something lighter.
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Better to learn now, I'll have to speak to the dealer tomorrow. My kerb weight calculations need a bit of work ;-)
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I am rather afraid he will quote the maximum towing weight as stated by Volvo. A lot seem to be doing this but it is a dangerous practice.
It's a theoretical figure that the car manfacturer estimates the car can tow without suffering damage or componant failures such as the suspension or clutch. It is most certainly NOT the figure the car can safely tow a caravan. This figure causes more confusion than anything else and certain dealers use it to sell totally unsuitable cars and caravan combinations.
Good luck and if he comes out with this nonsense you know thats what it is.
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Hi all, im also new to the caravan club, i have never owned a caravan before, myself and my wife have recently decided to go touring, had a nissan qashqai 2011 1.6 petrol and assumed it would be a heavy enough car to tow with, how wrong was i, after having
a towbar fitted i then found out it was only capable of a max tow weight of 1200kg, not suitable as we want a four birth, so exchanged for a 2014 zafira tourer, tow max 1500 kg, have done a towing course with the caravan club and am now all ready to buy my
first caravan in a month or so, towing weights are so deceptive arnt they?0 -
Have you used the matching service David?
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/choosing-a-vehicle/match-your-car-and-caravan
I have made some guess' based on your info, you can tweak it to check better.
Don't cancel your order just yet - double check the numbers and then consider the advice given - as long as you are legal and drive safely being just over an advised limit is not always a show stopper (not saying it is something to take lightly before I get jumped on by the rules is rules guys), just not a show stopper!
The Club advises that a Volvo XC60 D4 AWD (163hp) Start/Stop SE Lux (2013) can, with warnings, tow a Lunar Delta SB (2008)
Kerbweight ratio: 91%- The caravan's laden weight is close to the car's kerb weight, increasing the risk of stability concerns. This outfit should not be driven by novice towers, and does not meet Club guidelines. Note that a small increase in ratio (to perhaps 90%) is acceptable if all other criteria are passed.
Towing limit ratio: 93%- The caravan's laden weight is within the car's stated towing limit, and therefore meets legal limitations.
- Gross train weight ratio: 97%
- The sum of the car and caravan’s fully laden weights is within the car’s gross train weight. This outfit can therefore be used legally with both the car and the caravan fully laden.
- Nose weight ratio: 111%
- If car nose weight is listed as ‘unknown’, then check with the retailer, maker or in the handbook that the car’s nose weight is sufficient. If a nose weight figure is listed, it may be hard to load the caravan (especially a twin axle) to give acceptable car and adequate caravan nose weight. Aim for 5-7% of the caravan’s actual laden weight without overloading the car or the caravan’s front axle/tyres.
- BHP per ton : 43
- The car’s engine power should be fine to safely tow this caravan.
B+E Licence required
The maximum combined weight of this car and caravan car gross vehicle weight + caravan MTPLM) are over 3500kg, which means you need to have a category B+E driving licence. If you obtained your standard car driving licence before 1st January 1997, you already have this – if not you will need to take a B+E test to legally drive this outfit.
Volvo XC60 D4 AWD (163hp) Start/Stop SE Lux (2013)
Make Volvo Range D4 AWD (163hp) Start/Stop SE Lux Model XC60 Year 2013 Fuel type Diesel Transmission type Manual Body type Sports utility vehicle Kerb weight 1839.00kg Towing limit 1800.00kg Gross vehicle weight 2505.00kg Gross train weight 4305.00kg Nose weight 90.00kg BHP 163 RPM for maximum BHP 4000.00 Maximum torque 420.00 RPM for maximum torque 1500.00 More info
Lunar Delta SB (2008)
Make Lunar Range Delta Model SB Year 2008 Type Caravan Berths 4 Number of axles 2 MTPLM 1665kg MIRO 1395kg User payload 270kg Hitch limit Unknown Shipping length 7.93m Overall width 2.28m Overall height 2.65m Body Length 6.37m
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Now if you had kept your Califfornia
Errrrrm, no. Nice looking vehicle, all very cool but just a nightmare to camp with. I could go on, but wanted to try it, tried it, didn't like it, got rid.
Thanks ChemicalJasper, that is something to think about. Clearly I have a steep learning curve ahead. The nose weight @ %111 is of concern. There are only two of us, so loading of the van is going to be lighter than say a family of four.
Will have a think on it. All this and we're only after a twin fixed bed setup around the £10k region
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A rules is rules guy. Never been called that before.
Prefer to think of myself as a guy who does not want to advise a newcomer who might very well find themselves in an unrecognised dangerous situation that relies upon the weight of the towcar to save their necks.
Different for someone who knows enough not to get into such a situation in the first place.
This combination is not for a beginner.
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Are you a member? - too many to list without narrowing the search.
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I am a member, yep. We've looked at many layouts and really want the twin fixed bed setup, that's the ticket. a 2014 LUNAR VENUS 500/4 has caught my eye, with an a 1,185 kg MTPLM.
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A rules is rules guy. Never been called that before.
Prefer to think of myself as a guy who does not want to advise a newcomer who might very well find themselves in an unrecognised dangerous situation that relies upon the weight of the towcar to save their necks.
Different for someone who knows enough not to get into such a situation in the first place.
This combination is not for a beginner.
No offence meant Fysherman, depends what you class as a beginner.
I tow my 3500kg Ifor with my 1500kg 90, well over 200% - I don't do it if I can avoid it as its somewhat scary, but have done that from being a young man with little towing experience (in at the deep end - perhaps I was just lucky?!).
91% is not dangerous persay, compared to some of the idiots I see driving about, speeding, tailgating, late manoevers, no extended mirrors, so badly loaded the car is pulling a wheelie.
Yes it increases the risk of instability, but that has to take into account with driver skills and/or style etc. A few percent does not take you over some precipice where you are suddenly guaranteed a crash, that is all I was saying after someone suggested
he cancel his order based on a CC guideline.0 -
No offence taken CJ your posts are always reasonable and I think you drive a tanker professionally?
The OP has never towed AFAIK and the combination of a downhill bit, a touch too fast, a gust of wind and a adverse camber corner and 75% might not save the day.
All I am banging on about is the importance of maintaining a sensible and safe safety margin in case the unexpected happens. That's all really
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The OP has never towed AFAIK and the combination of a downhill bit, a touch too fast, a gust of wind and a adverse camber corner and 75% might not save the day.
All I am banging on about is the importance of maintaining a sensible and safe safety margin in case the unexpected happens. That's all really
Agreed!
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Now if you had kept your Califfornia
Errrrrm, no. Nice looking vehicle, all very cool but just a nightmare to camp with. I could go on, but wanted to try it, tried it, didn't like it, got rid.
Thanks ChemicalJasper, that is something to think about. Clearly I have a steep learning curve ahead. The nose weight @ %111 is of concern. There are only two of us, so loading of the van is going to be lighter than say a family of four.
Will have a think on it. All this and we're only after a twin fixed bed setup around the £10k region
Write your comments here...
I may be mistaken but I read it as JVB inferring that the California would have towed the caravan.
Anyway I think you are OK with the Volvo. Just make sure you get the nose weight correct.
And take extra care to get used to the combination.
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Kerb weight-wise the caravan would be fine on a California, despite only being front wheel drive and with 40 less bhp. The nose weight might be less as the Cali was lowered also. I'm starting to understand vehicle weight vs. safety ability in tight breaking
situations or dealing with too much gravity.0 -
I contacted the dealer this morning to discuss. He advised that the towing capacity should be "like 4 like" and is a grey area. He said that I should take the gross weight of both car and caravan and the towing capacity of the vehicle. This clearly does not reflect the CC guidelines per the link below. He struggled to undderstand kerb weight vs. gross weight. well, I did as well at first in the OP. Clearly confusion reigns even with dealers.
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The dealer probably knows perfectly well but is hoping you don't. Towing capacity as I explained earlier has no bearing on what is or is not safe to tow a caravan on the roads.
85% of kerb weight is a reasonable margin of safety especially for someone new to the game.
Anyway, you have had the sense to ask for help so now it's up to you
Good luck
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To establish the actual kerb weight of the car, why not clear it of contents, back to the as delivered condition and take it to a weighbridge? Weigh it with a roughly half tank of fuel and the driver. You will get a certificate showing the weight.
You can then better calculate the percentages and decide what you are happy with.
I would also suggest you ask the dealer to have the van weighed, as they can often weigh a good deal more than the stated MIRO. Plus of course there may be added items such as a mover, which eats into your payload.
You then need to check what this weight includes.......spare wheel, .battery, gas bottles, EHU cable, step, .....? The caravan industry keep changing what they include in MIRO.
This will then give the real picture of the payload availabe to you, it may not be as much as you think!
Consider also that you may wish to add a mover if one is not fited already.
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Reading your post again, I see this is a 2008 van, same year as ours.
At that time our MIRO (a Swift Group van) was the van as supplied (with spare wheel), and the EHU cable, the step, a half tank of water, fluids in the toilet, and a 20 litre waste container.
It did not include a battery or any gas bottles.
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I mean, you go on like this till it drove you mad right? I'll stick with the CC and this threads recommendation for my first purchase. All I can use are manuals. We are not going to load gold bars into either vehicle so a lighter caravan will be ideal. I
got space hungry when I saw the Delta with little knowledge about capacity guidelines.0 -
Gold bars - I like that idea!
Good luck, David. It's good that you asked advice and, as well as weights, you've learnt not to take notice of a dealer.
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I have spare capacity so feel free to load your Gold bars into either my caravan or my car.
Seriously, its always best to stand back and have a good long think before taking the plunge. It's perfectly normal to see a nice caravan and set your heart on it then the reality sets in and you realise its just too big and heavy for the car you have.
A bit of experience under your belt (perhaps you will feel the caravan have an occasional wag and note when it happens and how it affects your car) and then you can re-visit what combination will work for you with some knowledge behind you.
Much better to discuss it all (and hear all points of view) on a forum than wonder what the hell happened upside down in a ditch.
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I contacted the dealer this morning to discuss. He advised that the towing capacity should be "like 4 like" and is a grey area. He said that I should take the gross weight of both car and caravan and the towing capacity of the vehicle. This clearly does
not reflect the CC guidelines per the link below. He struggled to undderstand kerb weight vs. gross weight. well, I did as well at first in the OP. Clearly confusion reigns even with dealers.Write your comments here... . Many salesmen are only out for the sale & don't pay too much attention to club guidelines . Motto 'buyer beware' . FYO Lunar Clubman SB is around 1495 fully laden on a single axle & tows like a dream. You should be able to
pick up a decent 5yr old for 10K . Ours is a 2012 , the beds are comfy too . The noseweight is a lot less than 90 kgs & needs to be front loaded to get up to 70 kg0
