Caravan Club prices question

Dr Nigel
Dr Nigel Forum Participant Posts: 49

You must excuse me...I'm new to all of this, and want to ask a question that may sound naiive, but I genuinely don't know the answer...

I've been comparing the caravan club prices to equivalent French sites...what I don't understand is...

In France, wages of staff are higher, tax is higher and energy prices are lower, and they don't charge a membership fee...

So why are the French out of season prices nearly half of what the Caravan Club charge in the UK? 

Am I missing something?

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Comments

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,860 ✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #2

    I don't think you can compare as they are two different markets. If those French sites did not charge low prices they would be empty. They don't have the same touring tradition as the UK, certainly as far as caravans are concerned. Its one of the reasons you are seeing and increasing number of mobile home variants on French campsites as the French are now more inclined to hire something rather than take their own caravan. Years ago they would place their van onsite for up to three months but that tradition seems to be fading away now. Out of season you tend to see more French motorhomes using sites. We stayed at a site on the outskirts of Limoges at the beginning of October last year. It cost £12 a night but had only a dozen or so units on site. The Club site at York is always full despite the prices. It was also not long ago that the Club site were not making a profit but a small loss so another reason for prices being higher here.

    David

  • richardandros
    richardandros Club Member Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #3

    Yet, we've just spent a week at Chatsworth - another popular site and from Monday to Friday afternoon, there were only about 10 units on site out of a capacity of 120. At over £20 per night for the two of us, I do think there is a case for reducing low season
    rates - or at least giving it a try to see what effect there is on take-up.

  • bluerocket5
    bluerocket5 Forum Participant Posts: 43
    edited February 2016 #4

    we use cl sites now to keep costs down it suits us but I agree it would be better to see club sites utilised  but what the solution is to this conundrum I am unsure? 

  • cyberyacht
    cyberyacht Forum Participant Posts: 10,218
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    edited February 2016 #5

    When it comes to out of season/ mid-week discounts, the CC do not seem to have grasped the concept that half a loaf is better than no bread.

  • ValDa
    ValDa Forum Participant Posts: 3,004
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    edited February 2016 #6

    The whole French economy is different.  Because of the benefit system many French residents and even small business owners are able to not work during the winter, and get 90% of their salaries.  This means shorter opening times for everything including campsites - saving on all those empty winter pitches, staff costs, heating, etc, as the site is shut.   Many French campsites are only open from April or May until September.

    The same thing applies to hotels, restaurants, and other businesses, which have become very seasonal.  There is no longer a need for the village restaurant to stay open all winter, to cater for the odd lonely and cold hiker - they close at the end of September, and re-open again in May - whilst all the staff, and even the owners, continue to receive a high proportion of their salary.

    So, they don't have to make the same annual profit in a few busy months, in order to keep going for the whole year hence when they are actually open they are still able to offer three course lunches for just ten or twelve euros - attracting summer business,  or campsite pitches at just ten or twelve euros even in May, June and late August.

    However, on the other hand, French taxes and social charges for small businesses are rising into the realms of the 'undoable' and the long term effects of this conundrum remain to be seen as at the moment the 'people' are holding the balance of power, rather than businesses.

  • young thomas
    young thomas Forum Participant Posts: 11,356
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    edited February 2016 #7

    other than a six (or so) week period from mid July to end August (approx), french sites are off-peak....with ACSI you can get a pitch on a wonderfully equipped site (pools, bar, restaurant, kids play area, sports area, fully staffed etc, etc) for €11 upwards.....

    in the uk, peak periods have been continually extended to 'catch' (exploit) folk so that finding a period that isnt (distantly) related to some holiday somewhere (and therefore commensutately more expensive) is increasingly difficult.

    witness the introduction of 'shoulder' seasons (peak in disguise) and upto six (yes, six) price bands at a number of CC sites, some varying by a few pence but there just to squeeze the last drop from an unsuspecting wallet.....

    the culture is different....the french just wont stand for being ripped off, we make a career out of it....

  • InaD
    InaD Club Member Posts: 1,701 ✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #8

    When it comes to out of season/ mid-week discounts, the CC do not seem to have grasped the concept that half a loaf is better than no bread.

    Well put, CY.  Only yesterday I was checking a few CC sites out for the end of February, beginning of March.  Considering a stay at York Rowntree for a few nights followed by 3 or 4 at Wharfedale, Grassington.  York works out at £19.60 per night for 2, Wharfedale
    at £20.10.  Admittedly, they offer MWD, but Fri, Sat and Sun it's £20.10.  I could understand York being the more expensive site, as it's one of the "honeypot sites".  Wharfedale, in fact, has gone up by £3 per night compared to the same period last year.

  • Unknown
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    edited February 2016 #9
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  • ValDa
    ValDa Forum Participant Posts: 3,004
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    edited February 2016 #10

    When it comes to out of season/ mid-week discounts, the CC do not seem to have grasped the concept that half a loaf is better than no bread.

    Well put, CY.  Only yesterday I was checking a few CC sites out for the end of February, beginning of March.  Considering a stay at York Rowntree for a few nights followed by 3 or 4 at Wharfedale, Grassington.  York works out at £19.60 per night for 2, Wharfedale
    at £20.10.  Admittedly, they offer MWD, but Fri, Sat and Sun it's £20.10.  I could understand York being the more expensive site, as it's one of the "honeypot sites".  Wharfedale, in fact, has gone up by £3 per night compared to the same period last year.

    Half a loaf prices available at our place Ina!  You can park in our drive for a small fee!  Between both places - and ideally placed for long cycle rides!

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited February 2016 #11

    As someone who supports high peak season prices as a form of demand management. Then it also makes sense to reduce the prices during less popular times to attract more customers. Obviously the price can't be reduced to or below the marginal cost of the pitch,
    so if cost to the club of a van on a site is £6 per night then there is no point charging £5

  • SteveL
    SteveL Club Member Posts: 12,303 ✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #12

    Many of us on here know or in my case think I know quite a lot about France and understand this pricing difference . However France is a special case it has had a long tradition of camping and the  provisions of many sites for quite short seasons but
    if you widen the question to look at site fees in the rest of Europe there does not seem to be any one answer to why they almost invariably provide better facilities at lower cost.  Lower wages could be a factor in Spain and Portugal but how are high cost
    countries like Austria and Germany explained away? 

    BTW Welcome to the forum and your  overseas touring interest particularly welcome

    Perhaps it is just that we are such a captive market, literally. If we want to go outside of our small island it involves a ferry, or the tunnel, and expense. This is not an issue for longer stays but is for  2 / 3 weeks, which for the majority would be
    at the higher priced time of the year in any event.

  • ADP1963
    ADP1963 Forum Participant Posts: 1,280
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    edited February 2016 #13

    other than a six (or so) week period from mid July to end August (approx), french sites are off-peak....with ACSI you can get a pitch on a wonderfully equipped site (pools, bar, restaurant, kids play area, sports area, fully staffed
    etc, etc) for €11 upwards.....

    in the uk, peak periods have been continually extended to 'catch' (exploit) folk so that finding a period that isnt (distantly) related to some holiday somewhere (and therefore commensutately more expensive) is increasingly difficult.

    witness the introduction of 'shoulder' seasons (peak in disguise) and upto six (yes, six) price bands at a number of CC sites, some varying by a few pence but there just to squeeze the last drop from an unsuspecting wallet.....

    the culture is different....the french just wont stand for being ripped off, we make a career out of it....

    Write your comments here... BB, I would say you have summed the situation up exactly. Winking

  • young thomas
    young thomas Forum Participant Posts: 11,356
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    edited February 2016 #14

    steve, one could probably get away with this sort of 'generalisation' to a degree but how does it explain the myriad methods employed to extract every last penny from the customer...

    six price bands....'shoulder' seasons (no one had ever heard of these a few years ago)....more peak/shoulder/high periods than non peak...Undecided

  • SteveL
    SteveL Club Member Posts: 12,303 ✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #15

    steve, one could probably get away with this sort of 'generalisation' to a degree but how does it explain the myriad methods employed to extract every last penny from the customer...

    six price bands....'shoulder' seasons (no one had ever heard of these a few years ago)....more peak/shoulder/high periods than non peak...Undecided

    I did not say we were not paying over the odds. Just trying to find a reason for it. Short of huge numbers deciding not to use campsites in the UK things are unlikely to change. Where as the Germans, living in any of the large downs close to the French border
    can just nip across for a long weekend, if they reckon there sites are getting too expensive.

  • JillwithaJay
    JillwithaJay Club Member Posts: 2,485 ✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #16

    When it comes to out of season/ mid-week discounts, the CC do not seem to have grasped the concept that half a loaf is better than no bread.

    Well put, CY.  Only yesterday I was checking a few CC sites out for the end of February, beginning of March.  Considering a stay at York Rowntree for a few nights followed by 3 or 4 at Wharfedale, Grassington.  York works out at £19.60 per night for 2, Wharfedale
    at £20.10.  Admittedly, they offer MWD, but Fri, Sat and Sun it's £20.10.  I could understand York being the more expensive site, as it's one of the "honeypot sites".  Wharfedale, in fact, has gone up by £3 per night compared to the same period last year.

    I appreciate that it's a few weeks off yet but don't forget that the A59 is still closed around Blubberhouses as this will probably affect your route.  Happy

    300 siggy photo 6b161378-22ab-47bd-97dd-22af5e8f67ba_zpsbtkpqljt.jpg

  • young thomas
    young thomas Forum Participant Posts: 11,356
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    edited February 2016 #17

    steve, one could probably get away with this sort of 'generalisation' to a degree but how does it explain the myriad methods employed to extract every last penny from the customer...

    six price bands....'shoulder' seasons (no one had ever heard of these a few years ago)....more peak/shoulder/high periods than non peak...Undecided

    I did not say we were not paying over the odds. Just trying to find a reason for it. Short of huge numbers deciding not to use campsites in the UK things are unlikely to change. Where as the Germans, living in any of the large downs close to the French border
    can just nip across for a long weekend, if they reckon there sites are getting too expensive.

    ....but, as AD was saying, even 'high price' Germany has 'cheap' camping.....at full facilities sites....

     

  • SteveL
    SteveL Club Member Posts: 12,303 ✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #18

    steve, one could probably get away with this sort of 'generalisation' to a degree but how does it explain the myriad methods employed to extract every last penny from the customer...

    six price bands....'shoulder' seasons (no one had ever heard of these a few years ago)....more peak/shoulder/high periods than non peak...Undecided

    I did not say we were not paying over the odds. Just trying to find a reason for it. Short of huge numbers deciding not to use campsites in the UK things are unlikely to change. Where as the Germans, living in any of the large downs close to the French border
    can just nip across for a long weekend, if they reckon there sites are getting too expensive.

    ....but, as AD was saying, even 'high price' Germany has 'cheap' camping.....at full facilities sites....

     

    The point I was trying to make is that there is more competition. If French sites are cheaper Germans can easily get to them. We on the other hand have to get on a ferry.

  • Unknown
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    edited February 2016 #19
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  • SteveL
    SteveL Club Member Posts: 12,303 ✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #20

    Never going to happen, but it would be interesting to see if German site prices would increase, if they were charged an amount similar to our ferry fares for leaving the country with their caravan. I think they might.

  • JayEss
    JayEss Forum Participant Posts: 1,663
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    edited February 2016 #21

    [quote] six price bands....'shoulder' seasons (no one had ever heard of these a few years ago)....more peak/shoulder/high periods than non peak.. [/quote]

    The C&CC introduced the 'shoulder season' concept back in 2013 for the 2014 season.  Caused quite a stir at the time but obviously the CC have adopted it seeing as there seems to be so much support on here for the way the other club do things Wink

  • eurortraveller
    eurortraveller Club Member Posts: 6,829 ✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #22

    Dr. Nigel, All the other countries in Europe have plenty of fully equipped sites with an abundance  of pitches, plus Aires everywhere for motorhomes  too - therefore competition limits camp site price increases.

    The UK has plenty of Ill equipped CLs  in isolated areas which few people want, but a shortage of well equipped sites and no motorhome Aires, therefore there is little need for our campsites here to compete on price. 

     

     

     

  • EJB986
    EJB986 Forum Participant Posts: 1,153
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    edited February 2016 #23

    It's called 'Supply and Demand'.....but you knew that?

    The product has nothing to do with the price!

  • InaD
    InaD Club Member Posts: 1,701 ✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #24

     

     

    Half a loaf prices available at our place Ina!  You can park in our drive for a small fee!  Between both places - and ideally placed for long cycle rides!

    Thanks Val, are you diversifying?  Half a loaf sounds attractive....

  • Wildwood
    Wildwood Club Member Posts: 3,581 ✭✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #25

    Part of the problem comes down to the differing way caravans are used here as opposed to France. There caravans are for holidays in summer for most people. Here caravans are often used more intensively so the sites stay open longer or all year so you get a completely different pricing structure.

    Land costs are far higher here which may be part of the problem as this increases standing costs. Overall the market is simply very different making comparisons very difficult.

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,860 ✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #26

    Its interesting how many people like to compare the UK to France, natural I suppose as they are our nearest neighbours. However perhaps the contrast is not so great if we were to compare to Itally where prices outside the discount schemes generally remain
    high throughout all seasons. Funnily enough I have not seen people complain that prices in Italy are high compared to France?

    David

  • Boff
    Boff Forum Participant Posts: 1,742
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    edited February 2016 #27

    I have been informed that we have just booked on a French campsite in August,  somewhere nearish Bordeaux cost per night €40 inclusive of 6amp ehu doesn't strike me as that much cheaper than UK prices.

    Sometimes there is an element of the grass always being greener elsewhere.   Before anyone posts Asci etc we are tied to school holidays and therefore  have to accept peak prices. 

  • Unknown
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    edited February 2016 #28
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  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #29

    The French have always decamped en masse for their main summer holidays so popular sites will be busy and more expensive. Plus the exchange rate has not been in our favour. Take a look at this site for holiday dates in France www.about-france.com/week-planner.htm

    Shoulder seasons in France probably mean there are a lot more sites than in the UK just starting to open looking for people to fill some of the spaces? 

  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #30

    Hmm, just checked you can visit CC Cadeside all year round for £14! 

  • SteveL
    SteveL Club Member Posts: 12,303 ✭✭✭
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    edited February 2016 #31

    Hmm, just checked you can visit CC Cadeside all year round for £14! 

    That site does not of course have a toilet block. Also noticed that on the web site a pitch is £9.50 and an adult £4.50, whilst on the new price list it is a £14 overall charge, however many adults there are. It would be interesting to know which is right.