"Just Looking......"
Comments
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Fiat Camper does not appear to have updated its website yet with the new engines. If you are not looking at new with Euro 6, you can still find your ideal engine:
https://www.fiatcamper.com/en/home
We run in the UK at just over 3400kgs with the 130bhp and Comfort-matic. It's no ball of fire and it wheezes on the steeper hills. However, its fine for the vast majority of running and if I felt the need for more power, I'd have it chipped or something which is a cheaper option followed by numerous motorhomers. The 150bhp would be a better bet if you can justify the extra spend and have a press on driving style or more than the occasional steep hill to climb. You should get marginally better fuel consumption on the motorway from the 150bhp but that won't justify the cost for many a year. The 3 litre was an even better engine!
There is a Fiat specialist on the free Motorhome Matters forum. He's Nick Fisher and posts under the name of Euroserv. Search against his login name and you'll learn a lot about the pros and cons of Fiats.
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We gave the vans a miss, all except a lovely brand new Eriba. That just oozed quality. OH would have one like a shot, always been something he liked.
I looked at one of those ten years ago - bought it then and there - and have never been to another show or showroom since.
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OK, thanks. We would want the auto (Comfortmatic) gearbox.
Next question....insurance.
As we would be keeping our current towcar, at least meantime, there will be no NCD for a MH so a bit worried about the insurance cost. I suppose we could always switch things around and start over on the Smartcar?
I'm almost 74, OH 67, and DD and husband are 31 and 32, all without previous claims, would we be able to get some idea on likely premiums even though we have not yet decided to purchase?
How does where the vehicle is kept affect the premium? Ideally we would want it at home on the driveway, but might take it to our son's place in the country in the depths of winter as he has a large barn it could be kept in. Is this likely to push up the premium?
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Kjell, 7.5m van with seats for 4 (usually a belted half dinette) will be a tricky proposition even for the Hymer Exsis. belted seats mean weight (all that metal strenghtening underneath) and long vans (7.5m) also means weight.
the Hymer website that quotes XXXkg MIRO (and therefore the payload) will be on a basic van with no auto box, none of the manufacterers 'extras packs' (most of them 'mandatory') will be included.
as an example, our van has around 325kg of paxks and extras fitted, but we are in a 4250kg chassis so still loads to spare.
add in two extra folk in thise travel seats and their 'stuff' and thats another 200+ kg.....
...and then there's the cop out 'manufacturers tolerance' of +/- 5%......
this is why it is VITALLY important to have the van actually weighed prior to signing as it may not be the weight on the chit...
im not trying to put you off buying a MH but merely to raise awareness of the potential for financial disaster if the van wont 'work' for you at your 3.5t limit.....
ill check some 'brochure weights' a bit later and give you a bit more info....
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This is the 598, ohnly 115hp though
Standard chassis
Fiat AL-KO Ducato Standard Engine 2,0 Multijet kW (H.P.) 85 (115) Overall length approx. cm 695 Body width approx. cm 212 Overall width approx. cm 222 Internal width approx. cm 205 Overall height approx. cm 277 Maximum headroom approx. cm 198 Wheel base approx. mm 3900 Mass in running order approx. kg 2840 Maximum payload approx. kg 660 / 1010 (SA) Maximum permitted mass kg 3500 / 3850 (SA) Maximum permitted towing capacity kg 2000 / 1650 Maximum permitted passengers 4 Optional chassis Fiat AL-KO Ducato Maxi Engine 2,3 Multijet Mass in running order approx. kg 2900 Maximum payload approx. kg 600(a.W.) / 1600 Maximum permitted mass kg 3500(a.W.) / 4500 Maximum permitted towing capacity kg 2000 / 1500 Maximum permitted passengers 4 Insulation wall mm 35 Insulation roof mm 35 Insulation floor mm 41 Clearance of stowage compartment/garage doors or hatch W x H cm 70x67 rts / 70x102 rts (SA) Bed size rear L x W approx. cm 190 x 140 Berths 2 + 1 (o) Washroom W x D approx. cm 94 x 85 Separate shower W x D in cm (approx.) 74 x 74 Wardrobe W x D x H approx. cm 2 x 31 x 55 x 118 Kitchen W x D x H approx. cm 92 x 57 / 76 x 93 Refrigerator capacity approx. L 142 Heating with warm air fan Truma Combi 6 Water supply approx. l 100 Water supply (approx litres, while driving) 20 Waste water tank approx. l 100 Battery AH 95 2nd Battery AH incl. additional loader 95 (o) Steckdosen 12 V/ 230 V / USB 2 / 4 / 1 Gasvorrat kg 2 x 11 kg 
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Kjell, BB is giving you facts and figure but my gut instinct is that you are unlikely to achieve your ambition of getting everything you want at 3500kg. We did it with a decent payload but our van is only a 6.4m two berth. I fear you may need a rethink.
As for insurance, you'd probably be best to discuss it with an insurance company. We use NFU who are very helpful. The full NCD was transferred to the MH and it came out at almost the same price as our Shogun had been. That may give you some clues. Overnight
parking has the same bearing on insuring our MH as it does a car.0 -
They need to be used on a regular basis as well Kjell, doesnt do them any good standing for weeks on end, so this is something else to consider. We always toured all four seasons with caravan, so for us, getting out and about all year wasnt an issue. It
is just so much easier with the MH.Engine will be a big factor for us as well when we change. Reliability, mileage, ability to cope with some big hills. Having had prior experience with Fiat, both dealerships and Fiat in Italy, we were not impressed.
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We gave the vans a miss, all except a lovely brand new Eriba. That just oozed quality. OH would have one like a shot, always been something he liked.
I looked at one of those ten years ago - bought it then and there - and have never been to another show or showroom since.
They are nice, but even the largest pop top is too small for us with two big dogs.
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This would be better, but moving to the top of the budget!
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Another contender......
Interesting but too little payload left........
slightly better payload......
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Insurance cost us 394 with safeguard inc breakdown cover here and EU, unlimited mileage. Comfort came out cheaper but its Aviva (Norwich Union) so would not trust them to pay up!!! NFU were over 700 others around 500 so if you ring around you can get huge
variants. Safeguard are aprt of Swinton and the people I spoke ot seemed to understand and know about Motorhomes.0 -
Kjell, BB is giving you facts and figure but my gut instinct is that you are unlikely to achieve your ambition of getting everything you want at 3500kg. We did it with a decent payload but our van is only a 6.4m two berth. I fear you may need a rethink.
As for insurance, you'd probably be best to discuss it with an insurance company. We use NFU who are very helpful. The full NCD was transferred to the MH and it came out at almost the same price as our Shogun had been. That may give you some clues. Overnight
parking has the same bearing on insuring our MH as it does a car.never one to give up on a challenge, but i have to agree with TW....as i said earlier, this is a big ask at 3.5t..
the most difficult thing is to be able to sleep 4 comfortably and to be able to store their kit and travel 'all up' withing the 3.5t limit.
if there were only the two of you, you would be able to have a 7m+ van, with island bed and walk in shower etc....
add in two extra berths and you start adding the difficulties...either lengthen the van, move to transverse beds to reduce length, go to a drop down bed but then one couple sleeps above the other with the resulting squeeze on headroom etc..
with a transverse rear bed and dropdown in the front, the carthago 138 would do the job weightwise at 6.4m....but....the bed is high and the van would be small for four people.....
typical 'family' MH on 3.5t wont appeal as they tend to have garages (for family clobber) over higher beds....a second drop down (ok) but often half (or even full) dinettes (for multiple seatbelts) and will feel totally cramped for lounging....
so....at the moment i reckon the easiest options are ......
continue with the caravan, bite the bullet and change the towcar and carry on as now, which you are familiar with...
or....check out the requirements for getting the C1 back and then you can explore a wider range of alternate solutions....
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cant edit above post, however....
just had a thought....a smallish auto-sleepers (or similar) like TW/Hitchglitch have, but with an overcab style as opposed to their low profile versions, might give you the additional berths....
let the younger folk do the hopping up....
when theres just the two of you, youd have a largeish open plan lounge and reasonable shower etc.....
main issues....making up the bed, shortage of outdoor accesible storage for larger items, overcab 'styling' thats only a requirement occasionally...
advantages....easy(ish) to park when in use off site, meets the weight/berths criteria...
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OH is still keen on a MH, but as I said on a previous discussion, I am not so keen, but trying to keep an open mind.
Having made a list of what we would like in a MH, we have realised that it does not fit with what I now have the licence to drive, or with what we realistically have space for on the driveway.
We also decided we want the possibility to be able to take the grandchildren along, so 4 belted seats and 4 berths, and a model that our daughter and husband could use, so under 3500kg.
We have therefore decided that a compromise is necessary, have abandoned Alde heating as a requirment, and OH is now looking at up to 7.5m (but preferably only 7m), under 3500kg models that still have most of what we would want.
Looking at the rear fixed bed models with the split toilet/shower arrangement, there are several under 3500kg and 7.5m, but the big compromise is in kitchen space, and in the island bed types the storage space in the bedroom.
Have not found any UK built ones that combine our preferred size/layout with the under 3500kg requirement.
She now has a "shortlist" (actually quite long!) which includes the Hymer Exsis 598 models (very nice), also (so far) similar ones from Rapido, Chausson, Burstner, Knaus, Adria and Dethleffs.
One that we also found interesting is the Burstner Ixeo it680G, which has a drop down bed as the main bed, rather than a fixed bed, so therefore more lounge and kitchen space, a good rear bathroom, and good storage. 2 additional berths can be catered for by only partly lowering the bed. However, it is somewhat heavier than the fixed bed models, so limited payload.
The "basic" models are probably just a bit too basic for us, and adding the various things we would want is going to add weight, and ££££s. It is all rather bewildering!
Hoping we may be able to see a few in the flesh in September when we head south.
Meantime, perhaps a MH owner could advise on engines?
Is the 130hp Fiat engine going to give a reasonable performance on hills?
To get a four berth/four travel seat van with "posh" facilities and four beds is always going to be difficult especially one that leaves a realistic payload after 2 adults + 2 adults/children and their kit. I would advise you to be very careful about payload and very sceptical about dealer pronouncements in tht regard. E.g. 1 adult + 2 children + full water could be 250 kilos leaving a small margin for everything else. My 130 bhp euro 5 engine is more than adequate for my van. The "new" Euro 6 "blue"peugeot/citroen engine has slightly more torque (340 compared with 320) and the 160 bhp version has the same amount of torque so probably not worth the extra £1000. The theoretical top speed of the van unconverted is 92 mph. We have hit 160kph on unrestricted sections of the autobahn so top speed is unlikely to be an issue.
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the Carthago C-compactline 145QB ticks just about all the boxes and is a direct competitor for the Hymer Exsis-i models but even better built, and marginally better payloads...
if you are checking out the Hymers at the show, be sure to checkout the Carthago equivalents...
advantages.....very large beds (rear island and front drop down) yet with easy steps each side to the island bed..large storage in the garage, large water and gas capacities, double floor for winterisation and extra storage, slim design (only 212 cm wide) for easy driving, auto available
disadvantages will be....small kitchen, lack of worktop (but large storage drawers), lack of oven (one can be dealer fitted in lieu of one of the six drawers), wet room washroom design, though shower is a 'teleporter style' unit that is actually very roomy, small lounge for four but fine for two....
ill get some weight figures....
unladen weight...2780kg
ill guess miro at around 2950 incl driver and full water tank.
right....add in packs (pretty much essential)....around 120kg, gives 3070kg....start adding wind out awning (40kg) and satellite system (30kg) and you start to see where all this is going....now upto 3140 before you add your two other occupants (150kg)...now at 3290....
so....200kg left for all your (and their) stuff.....hoses, levelling blocks, cables, tables, chairs, bbq....etc, etc...
just about doable by making use of the 100kg of water i included, you can carry far less....say 20ltr.....
so, ive been wholly honest about weights, but ill wager there are many out there (including some on CT no doubt) who are blissfully unaware (or couldnt care) that they are running overweight.
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Thanks for all your research BB!
I would say 90% of the time it would just be the 2 of us, but being able to add the grandchildren would be the ideal. They are only 6 and 10, and quite slim, I'll need to get their Mum to weigh them. They would only be along for a week or two, if they
wanted to come at all.DD and husband would be using the vehicle instead of us, not at the same time, so we are only thinking of additional sleeping space for 2 children. They have no children as yet, but we keep dropping hints!
The shower space is obviously something we need to look closely at, find some examples, shoes off and try them out. Several different types out there.
Beds.....would be either island, french or the 2 singles like you have, all are easy to access. High level rear transverse is out as a bit awkward.
OH also says I would need to pare down my toolkit!
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Thanks for all your research BB!
I would say 90% of the time it would just be the 2 of us, but being able to add the grandchildren would be the ideal. They are only 6 and 10, and quite slim, I'll need to get their Mum to weigh them.
Write your comments here...in 2 years they would be 8 & 12 so would weigh a lot more remember.
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Thanks for all your research BB!
I would say 90% of the time it would just be the 2 of us, but being able to add the grandchildren would be the ideal. They are only 6 and 10, and quite slim, I'll need to get their Mum to weigh them.
Write your comments here...in 2 years they would be 8 & 12 so would weigh a lot more remember.
....and might want to take bikes etc....
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totally different tack.....
buy the van you want/need....island bed, nice shower etc...reasonable payload and space for two....
would need to have a 'half dinette' lounge (with sofa on the other side) to allow seatbelts for g'kids...
.....and then when kids are with you, tow a very small trailer (sorry) for all the kids' clobber..and any of ypur heavy stuff to keep within payload...
..small so that it can easily be manoevered on pitch..
...and with just the two of you travelling, no need for trailer as sufficient payload and space....
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Yes, that idea had crossed my mind, especially as we would possibly want to tow the Smart when just we two, at least in UK.
It is only our idea that we might take the GKs occasionally, they have never been with us in our caravan, or expressed any interest in coming. If we did take them it would not be on a long trip, either in distance or time. Bikes would be negotiable.
The idea of some extra seats/beds is more for DD to be able to use the van when they have little ones, plus for us (who will be assisting with child care no doubt) to be able to take them along. She has already suggested that we could/might like to do this
in the future!! So just wanting to keep our options open.OH had showed me the "transporter" shower, she was not sure about it, what sort of dimensions does it have?
We have a real problem up here trying to view any MHs, so few dealers. Going to the show in October would be good, but we have a friend's wedding on the 15th, and a prior appointment on the 10th, will need to see if we can fit it in somehow.
Really appreciate your help and advice.
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"OH showed me the "transporter" shower, she was not sure about it, what sort of dimensions does it have?"
...van being serviced, should be collecting soon and will measure for you...
the trailer thing could be sorted as and when the g'kids decide to come (or not) .....
if you get a van that suits you, and the trailer is not needed, you still have the 'right' van.....
tricky decision but try and build in as much flexibility as possible so as to keep options open....
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Kjeinn I saw this today, its a PVC but seems to tick a lot of your boxes, 4 beds, 3.5t, all teh mod cons etc.
We ahve a Knaus Sky TI and are really pleased with the quality and layout.
https://www.knaus.de/en/camper-vans/boxstar/boxstar-630/layout-plans/630-freeway.html
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Thanks Michael, had a look, but it is a bit on the small side.
We do up to 3 month tours in Europe and UK, so need a decent amount of space, both for living and storage.
Also, need a proper, permanent, shower cubicle as we almost always use our own facilities.
It is an interesting design though!
OH has a few Knaus on her list, including the TI 700 MX models, but they are a bit longer than I would ideally want.
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Kjell, although this particular van is on a 3850kg uplifted chassis, it might be workable at 3500kg.
either way, a nice open lounge, 4 berths and belts, lovely island bed, walk in shower, decent kitchen (apart from the Tec Tower oven), decent underbed storage....in a 7m Hymer A class.
a discontinued model i think..?but very nice indeed....
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Thanks BB, have shown that to OH and she reckons "we" have a similar current model on the shortlist! It does seem do-able at 3500 as you say. Will need to check the current weights.
It is certainly the layout we are thinking the most suitable at the moment.
We are heading south in September, so hope to find a few dealers to look around, see what we can see of the ones on the shortlist.
Plus, as I maybe said elsewhere, I have been "persuaded" that we should attend the exhibition at the NEC in October for serious research!
A suitable nearby site has been booked, so the caravan will get an extra outing. Just need to organise tickets now.
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KJ just as an FYI we have the knaus sky ti 700 mx (island bed) with a lot of extras fitted, 2nd battery, awning, solar panel, satellite dish etc. Got it weighed and with full tank of water, half tank if fuel some clothes and myself it came in at just underived
3500 kg. I think this year they have reduced weight and if you take the extras off it nay work for you.0 -
Michael's van is around 7.5m and this is a fairly typical weight...at, or close to 3500kg....might just manage with two people and chattels but starting to get tricky when adding even kids and stuff...
in that ebay search i did. there were several other vans which would have matched your criteria (just), some new a s so e second hand...
Auto sleepers is a popular brand (though holds little appeal to me personally) and there was a Burford (with rear bed and washroom behind) which was advertised on 3500kg at £60+
might be worth a look but MUST be weighed as part of the viewing due to manufacturers 'variances' of +/- 5%.
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