MIRO a complete lie?
Hi all.
I've recently purchased a Cristall Sprint 450 TF second hand.
The Miro as advertised is 930Kg, indeed looking at several sites online.
http://www.gocaravanning.com/caravan-specs/2800/Cristall-Sprint-450 TF-2006.html
and
The all agree that the MIRO is 930. They also say that the Van as an MPTLM of 1200Kg.
However. After I purchased my caravan. I decided to take it to a weighbridge. With only the battery and toilet flush in the van, it weight in at 1160Kg!
Also the MPTLM isn't 1200 as advertised it's 1300Kg.
(The advert that i'm going off is the original from Auto Trader and is no longer visible online, good job I took a photo)
I did have a motor mover fitted. So with that the battery and the toilet tank, I can account for some of the weight. 40-50Kg for the mover, 30-40kg for the battery and maybe 10Kg for the toilet water.
The spare wheel was moved to a carrier, and both were still on the caravan, so maybe that's 8.8Kg (max) for the carrier and the weight of the wheel (about 6Kg).
Worst case that's 115Kg, so 930Kg would become 1045Kg. How could I still be missing over 95Kg of weight?
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Comments
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Being a continetal van you could well find the MIRO, even stuck on the plate is for the most basic variant of the van, not as delivered with any customer/dealer options. Unfortunately this is a standard practice as MIRO has no legal signifigance re use on the road.
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Astro, I think your figures may be a bit out for the weights of the accessories. My 110mAh battery weighs 22kg and my motor mover 35kg including the cross-over actuator bar. The flush water in the tank will only be about 5kg. In total these add up to 63kg
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40-50Kg for Mover
30-40Kg for battery - your correction is 22Kg
8.8Kg for spare wheel rack
6Kg for Spare wheel - your correction 19Kg
Total = 115 - your correction = 101 Kg
Still doesn't explain away the 95Kg of weight, in fact with those corrections makes it more like 106Kg.
The idea of all configurations of the van having the same Miro, now that does make some sense. Mine is the version with a fixed bed, so maybe that could explain it as the interior will be completely different to the other versions.
Just shows that it's worth getting it checked at a weighbrige regardless of what the sale people tell you.
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The figures quoted are from other peoples websites rather than adverts and it is not clear where they got them from but whoever sold it to you did not refer you to them he has no respondibility for the figures
The only figure that would be relevant is the one in the advert for the sale of the caravan. If that was from a trader and was wrong then you should have a claim against him, if it was from an individual selling his old caravan then a claim is far more difficult.
If you want to take it further I would speak to the clubs legal helpline.
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Whilst the people that sold me the van have no responsibility for the figures from other websites. They do have a responsibility for the figures on the Auto trader website where they put up the advert. I have a photo of the website from the time when I
was making the purchase. So whilst the advert is no longer available on the internet, I do have the image and the details.The image quoted a MIRO of 930 and an MPTLM of 1200, with a 270Kg Payload.
My measurements are
MIRO 1160 - Including Mover, battery, flush tank and fiamma 2 bike rack fitted to the front of the van.
MPTLM 1300 - From the plate in the gas locker.
Leaving a payload of 140Kg.
Looking at the things I've added to the caravan
Fiamma Xl-A - 5.3Kg (Forgot about that earlier)
Battery 115Ah - 20Kg (guess not weighed)
Toilet flush tank full - 10Kg (guess, assuming 10 Litres of water)
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I just found another website, with information for a 2008 version of the same caravan. This is very interesting...
https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/caravans/buyers-guide/caravans/details/450-tf/1728
Starting with a MIRO of 1119 and an MPTLM of 1300.
Add the parts on that I've listed about and the MIRO would jump up to 1155 ish. Which is withing 5Kg of my measurement. This makes me feel much happier that the advertisers simply messed up all their figures, and it's most likely not a damp problem.
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Astro, the MiRO of any caravan will NOT include motormover, battery or bike rack. These items would be part of the MTPLM. It will, however, include the mains hookup cable, 1 gas cylinder, water in the water heater and some water in the flush tank. This would
total about about 33kg whereas what you have included will total somewhere around about 75kg, a difference of almost 40kg. The official MiRO should be shown on the same plate as the MTPLM.0 -
The only plate that I have found is the one inside the gas locker that shows the axle weight of the van at 1300.
The Miro that I quoted - including bike rack, flush tank, battery and mover. Is an actual figure taken from a weigh bridge. I'm calling that the real miro of my caravan. It doesn't include anything else as I had already taken them out of the caravan in
order to weigh as few things as possible.If there's a plate somewhere that shows an official MTPLM and MIRO I've not seen it anywhere.
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Astro, the weighbridge figure that you quote is not the MiRO but the MiRO plus other bits that have been added after the manufacture of the caravan. The additional bits are part of your total permissible payload, the MTPLM. You cannot really call it the
MiRO even though these are permanently on the caravan.The usual position for the plate is somewhere low down near to the caravan door. It is possible that someone has ripped the plate off for some reason, possibly to hide the real weight limits.
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no consolation, but you wont be the only one with a van whose MIRO weight is far more than the advertised weight....leaving a far lower payload than stated.
the reason for this is that most manufacturers use a bit of the 'license' granted with weights which states they have a +/- 5% tolerance.
5% of a van with a 'supposed' miro of (say) 1200kg is 60kg..
to lose 60kg of, say, a payload of 120kg is a lot to lose.
my advice to caravanner or motorhomer is 'get the van weighed' before signing on the dotted line.....
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I've done a damp check today with my new damp meter from amazon. I tested about 30 places around the van - near windows and near the floor. The worst figure that I saw was 16% Most figures were around less than 10%. So I'm very happy. This is the
first time that I've been back to the carvan in a week after installing a new damp trap. Well it was a pleasant surprise that there was not a single drop of brine in the bottom of the trap. I'm really happy that there's no condensation problem or anything
like that going onAlso had a check for an official sticker or plate or something on the inside of there caravan. There's not a sign of one and I couldn't see any remenant of where one something had been removed. I guess the figures that the dealer had used were just plain
wrong. I'm happy that I know what the limits are and that everything is good. Looking forward to getting away for a weekend in a couple of weeks.0 -
"My measurements are
MIRO 1160 - Including Mover, battery, flush tank and fiamma 2 bike rack fitted to the front of the van.
MPTLM 1300 - From the plate in the gas locker.
Leaving a payload of 140Kg."
the above is the important bit....
it matters not how the weights got to where they are (as i said. tolerances can invisibly eat payload) but its the weighbridge that tells the truth....a far more reliable 'witness' than any brochure or salesman....
so, it seems you have just 140kg to play with to get everything you else that you need/want into the van...including your gas bottle, ehu lead, chocks, any clothes shoes, books, electrical gadgets, food and drink etc etc....
of course, some/all of these might go in the tow vehicle, but at least you know (exactly) what your limits are....which is more than some do
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The only plate that I have found is the one inside the gas locker that shows the axle weight of the van at 1300.
The Miro that I quoted - including bike rack, flush tank, battery and mover. Is an actual figure taken from a weigh bridge. I'm calling that the real miro of my caravan. It doesn't include anything else as I had already taken them out of the caravan in
order to weigh as few things as possible.If there's a plate somewhere that shows an official MTPLM and MIRO I've not seen it anywhere.
just an observation I made when looking at a new Bailey Pursuit Modena (MTPLM 1275kg) that may explain the similar discrepancies you have seen - there was a separate sticker in the gas locker showing (only an MPTLM ) 1300kg but I believe that is the max
for the particular ALKO chassis used.0
