How many good vans cancel out a bad van?
Reading a few threads has set me wondering.
My caravan xxxxxx has had the following faults xyz damp being the most common.
The original poster then starts getting posts from owners of xxxxxxx Which at worst basically imply that the original poster is jut a whinger everyone else is happy with xxxxxxx so he should shut up.
Maybe these posters should offer to swap vans with the moaner
Alternatively there are posts that say we've had no problems, which is good and positive. After all no one wants to buy a badly made caravan. I would actually go further and say that no manufacturer or dealer wants to make or supply a bad van. I am not
how much effort some of them are willing to put into achieving quality however.
Back to my question if owner A has a van for example, that leaks during the first 2 years, other faults are available, how many good vans does it take to cancel this out 1,2,5,10,100?
Comments
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One bad van, is a bad van too many. Any manufacturer producing a van with faults is a failed company and should be taken to task by the Caravan press. Either on-line or paper versions.
Too many publications paper over the cracks about lack of build quality and do not let their readership share the bad news.------- We can only imagine why they dont want to incur the anger of the manufacturers.
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Can you quantify it like that? Between 1988 and 2013 we owned 4 caravans purchased new and had no major issue with any of them. On average they were kept for about 6 years each. They all came from the Swift stable. Was I just lucky or was I not as demanding
as I should have been. Personally I don't think either of those options apply. Perhaps when we eventually get the results of the Club survey we might get a better perspective?David
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K9 I agree with your sentiments however
I don't believe it is possible to get it 100% correct 100% of the time. Obviously the makers should strive for that, but in real life it is how they deal with problems that is just as important and can turn a problem into a positive experience.
With press reviews there is no doubt that the reviews tend to have punches pulled. But I am not sure that the reasons for this solely lies with the magazines not wanting to upset the advertisers
For example let's pretend that I review the 2016 Acme wobble box SE. My honest opinion is that has been designed by some who has never set foot in a caravan, styled by someone who is blind and built by a team of chimps nursing hangovers and forms the result
of my reviewWhat happens Next? Acme decide to withdraw advertising from my magazine Acme refuses to lend any caravans and tells its dealers to do the same.
The result of this is lost revenue from the advertising but when I count up there is suprisingly little direct advertising from manufacturers in magazines. I can't review any more acme caravans and I need to fill my pages every month. Caravans of all makes
are largely built from the same box of parts from the Alko chassis up. You could argue that two of most exciting developments in recent years is that Thetford started to make fridges and Dometic started to make toilets. And there are only so many layouts
you can have in a 5.5 X 2.3m whitish box.Finally we come on the readers of the magazine who happen to own Acme WobbleBoxes SE's. You have just alienated them as well.
Because they genuinely believe that the wobblebox is the best caravan ever-made.
or
You are insulting them because it is obvious that only an idiot would handover money for such a pile of rubbish and who are you calling an idiot.
or
They agree with every word you have written, but are angry with you because they were about to chop it in for something different and you have just ruined the Px value.
I think you see these responses in forums when someone complains about the quality of their particular van.
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We purchased a new van last year and have had several faults which I could have fixed myself with the exception of changing the omnivent. My point is that had the QC at the factory and the dealers PDI been correct these issues would have been sorted. I
don't understand how the wrong window catches and wrong size bed slats could be fitted. Even though I thought I was thorough on delivery obviously I wasn't. I'll be more thorough next time before I take delivery. I would still buy from the same manufacturer.
As DK stated I don't think you can really quantify it as OP suggests0 -
K9 I agree with your sentiments however
I don't believe it is possible to get it 100% correct 100% of the time. Obviously the makers should strive for that, but in real life it is how they deal with problems that is just as important and can turn a problem into a positive experience.
With press reviews there is no doubt that the reviews tend to have punches pulled. But I am not sure that the reasons for this solely lies with the magazines not wanting to upset the advertisers
For example let's pretend that I review the 2016 Acme wobble box SE. My honest opinion is that has been designed by some who has never set foot in a caravan, styled by someone who is blind and built by a team of chimps nursing hangovers and forms the result of my review
What happens Next? Acme decide to withdraw advertising from my magazine Acme refuses to lend any caravans and tells its dealers to do the same.
The result of this is lost revenue from the advertising but when I count up there is suprisingly little direct advertising from manufacturers in magazines. I can't review any more acme caravans and I need to fill my pages every month. Caravans of all makes are largely built from the same box of parts from the Alko chassis up. You could argue that two of most exciting developments in recent years is that Thetford started to make fridges and Dometic started to make toilets. And there are only so many layouts you can have in a 5.5 X 2.3m whitish box.
Finally we come on the readers of the magazine who happen to own Acme WobbleBoxes SE's. You have just alienated them as well.
Because they genuinely believe that the wobblebox is the best caravan ever-made.
or
You are insulting them because it is obvious that only an idiot would handover money for such a pile of rubbish and who are you calling an idiot.
or
They agree with every word you have written, but are angry with you because they were about to chop it in for something different and you have just ruined the Px value.
I think you see these responses in forums when someone complains about the quality of their particular van.
Write your comments here...Boff, good post, eloquently presented. I have given you a like !!! You have highlighted the biggest challenges that we the consumer, who pay good money for poor build quality, faces today.
K
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I have never bought a fault free caravan, and frankly don't believe those that say they have. The smallest number of faults being 15 on a 1997 Avondale.
I suspect they don't see minor things such as a loose screw as a fault, or don't recognise a fault when its there.
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It applies across most sectors, in our road two couples have the same year LR Discos,one says he has bought a load of rubbish and wish he had kept his Sorrento ,and the other thinks its the best vehicle on the road its his third
,We have also never had a "fault free" caravan or motor van,never had a really major problem in recent years,early vans were always prone to rot!!, but if you do have a problem,then you tend to look harder at the product,to find even the smallest of things that are not right,
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Thank you K9 for your like I will treasure it always
My point was and is not specifically about build quality and it is not directed at any specific manufacturer, may be they are all to large degree as good as our as bad as each other and maybe that's the problem. But rather the complacent
attitude of some owners. If you don't pressure manufacturers then there is no pressure on them to improve. Quality improvement in the short term is going to cost money but in the long term save money by not having to carry out constant remedial work not
to mention increased customer satisfaction.I don't expect perfection, I don't even think that I am obsessively picky, but here are plenty of Caravans out their that have been sold with inherent major faults, A few examples excessive nose weight, cracking panels, wheels falling off.
examples of inadequete heating in the bathroom so extra radiators have to be fitted the list goes on and on yet we seem to suck it up. I find this attitude a bit depressing to be honest.0 -
As K says one bad van is one too many.You can produce 100 good vans but all that work can be out of the window with one stinker and as we know there are still far too may sub standard vans being turned out by the makers because they know they can sell everyone
regardless.peter.
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Bad news is good news as they say. A no-fault caravan (if there is such a thing) is not much to write or read about, hence the number of complaints on CT - vans, sites, dealers, the Club etc. Human nature.
So, to add my moan, three out of the four caravans we owned had damp. Our first Abbey was virtually sold for scrap and our latest Bailey back twice to the factory for damp repairs. We couldn't sell it due to its history so part exchanged it for a motorhome.
You could buy a Hymer - very heavy and very expensive. What is disappointing is that nearly every manufacturer has changed construction technique - Alutech, Solid, etc. - the results appear to have been less than impressive.
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I went to a Birmingham show two years ago,and talking to the "design" staff asking if they ever use the product?the response was feedback from owners is taken on board,and is always given real thought at production meetings?but all products have to be a
compromise between customer expectations and build constraints?0 -
I went to a Birmingham show two years ago,and talking to the "design" staff asking if they ever use the product?the response was feedback from owners is taken on board,and is always given real thought at production meetings?but all products have to be a
compromise between customer expectations and build constraints?Is building, for example, a van that doesn't leak a design constraint?
The good think about the internet is that you can find information about consistent recurring faults, this is not restricted to caravans. So it is much harder for a dealer to say "never seen this problem before sir you must have mistreated it"
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Is there a website that is covers other than uk built leasure vehicles,with feedback about those,The feedback from the small amount of uk owners, compared to the thousands of uk built van owners, is mostly good ,but it would be interesting to find out if
it is as "good "0 -
I went to a Birmingham show two years ago,and talking to the "design" staff asking if they ever use the product?the response was feedback from owners is taken on board,and is always given real thought at production meetings?but all products have to be a
compromise between customer expectations and build constraints?Is building, for example, a van that doesn't leak a design constraint?
The good think about the internet is that you can find information about consistent recurring faults, this is not restricted to caravans. So it is much harder for a dealer to say "never seen this problem before sir you must have mistreated it"
...You are so right and that works in all things today,
We visited two dealers when looking to change our van,First dealer was only interested in selling,with seemingly no real knowledge of product,and was quite negative about our Px,Second was very informative,even to extent of saying the van on their forecourt
was being "improved" after feedback,so to wait for next production run before making final decision,and px was far better0 -
Is there a website that is covers other than uk built leasure vehicles,with feedback about those,The feedback from the small amount of uk owners, compared to the thousands of uk built van owners, is mostly good ,but it would be interesting to find out if
it is as "good "I am sure that there are websites that cover foreign vans the trouble is that they are likely to be in foreign C'est la vie as we don't say arround here.
A practical example of Internet research not caravan related, towcar actually. When bought our Landcruiser the air conditioning wasn't working. The internet told me that the likely cause was a failed relay. It told me where the relay was and that the fog
light relay was identical so you could swap that in to test if this was the fault. I tested it and it was the relay. Not only that the web told me that Toyota had upgraded the relay and gave me new part number. I took that part number to my local dealer
who told me that his computer said that the part number was for a bolt and the price was £55. I thought that £55 was a bit expensive for a bolt even by toyotas standards so got him to order it anyway. 24hours late I am in possession of an upgraded relay and
24.5hrs later I in possession of a landcruiser with a fully function a/c system.Without the internet what chance would I stood of working out the fault?
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Bad news is good news as they say. A no-fault caravan (if there is such a thing) is not much to write or read about, hence the number of complaints on CT - vans, sites, dealers, the Club etc. Human nature.
So, to add my moan, three out of the four caravans we owned had damp. Our first Abbey was virtually sold for scrap and our latest Bailey back twice to the factory for damp repairs. We couldn't sell it due to its history so part exchanged it for a motorhome.
You could buy a Hymer - very heavy and very expensive. What is disappointing is that nearly every manufacturer has changed construction technique - Alutech, Solid, etc. - the results appear to have been less than impressive.
Write your comments here...so long as they keep putting joints in the roof structure, they will leak. the roof should be in one complete piece,over the sides and the fixed, rain water off the roof should not be diverted down joint lines, do that and you
will see less leakage if any, oh and while we are redesigning get rid of cheap plasic and go back to grp, most of manfacture has gone down the cheap and cheerfull route and build to a price truly shocking.
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My van hasnot given me anny faf it has done well by me its paid for itsself no damp no falts on the gas plumbing or electric the apiances the slide out and the brakes the tires has been good to me so iam going to give it aname it will be the Foden if its
ok with the foden truck club fodens ar well made trucks
J&I0 -
As said one badcaravan is one too many. Having said that perfection in a complex product like a caravan is difgicult to achieve and none of our six have quite made it.
The real problems are the way people are treated when things go wrong in many cases and poor quality control. My feeling is manufacturers whose caravans leak should replace them and firms should be required to rectify faults within a fixed period.
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My van hasnot given me anny faf it has done well by me its paid for itsself no damp no falts on the gas plumbing or electric the apiances the slide out and the brakes the tires has been good to me so iam going to give it aname it will be the Foden if its
ok with the foden truck club fodens ar well made trucksJ&IWrite your comments here...fantastic spelling
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The disconcerting thing is the nmber of accounts one reads of Van X having substantial damp at first service, being rectified and then the problem recurring at a subsequent service. This suggests that workmanship is total rubbish or the method of caravan construction generally militates against being able to construct vans that don't leak. My view is that it is a bit of both.
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My van hasnot given me anny faf it has done well by me its paid for itsself no damp no falts on the gas plumbing or electric the apiances the slide out and the brakes the tires has been good to me so iam going to give it aname it will be the Foden if its
ok with the foden truck club fodens ar well made trucksJ&IWrite your comments here...fantastic spelling
armourer, correcting/commenting on members spelling mistakes is generally frowned upon here on CT, it is not considered very good forum "etiquette"......
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My van hasnot given me anny faf it has done well by me its paid for itsself no damp no falts on the gas plumbing or electric the apiances the slide out and the brakes the tires has been good to me so iam going to give it aname it will be the Foden if its
ok with the foden truck club fodens ar well made trucksJ&IWrite your comments here...fantastic spelling
armourer, correcting/commenting on members spelling mistakes is generally frowned upon here on CT, it is not considered very good forum "etiquette"......
Write your comments here...That maybe so. But its also no excuse not to use a spell checker, its just idle and ignorant to post someting that so badly spelt.
Anyway i thought this forum was CC, not caravan talk?
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That maybe so. But its also no excuse not to use a spell checker, its just idle and ignorant to post someting that so badly spelt.
Anyway i thought this forum was CC, not caravan talk?
I think your comment is out of order, personally I don't have a spell checker on CT on my desktop so nothing to do with lazy or ignorant.Discussions and stories come under the heading of CT so I guess a lot of us use that shortcut, other names are available
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My van hasnot given me anny faf it has done well by me its paid for itsself no damp no falts on the gas plumbing or electric the apiances the slide out and the brakes the tires has been good to me so iam going to give it aname it will be the Foden if its ok with the foden truck club fodens ar well made trucks
J&IWrite your comments here...fantastic spelling
armourer, correcting/commenting on members spelling mistakes is generally frowned upon here on CT, it is not considered very good forum "etiquette"......
Write your comments here...That maybe so. But its also no excuse not to use a spell checker, its just idle and ignorant to post someting that so badly spelt.
Anyway i thought this forum was CC, not caravan talk?
I would think you would have to know a lot more about the person posting to make such a disparaging comment.
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Sorry Iam abad speller win iam in arush to finish aposte my spelling takes a hit in the usa we spell tyre tire thank steveL for sticking up for me some of us arnot good spellers win in a rush
J&I0
